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Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 7:54:31 AM   
Cell


Posts: 409
Status: offline 		I'd like to see what people's thoughts are on setting consequences for safewording, the idea being to help a weak willed partner from using it... 'prematurely?' 'excessively?' (Both not the word I'm looking for...)
This is in regards to both parties in the relationship wanting to push limits, but looking for strategies for maybe switching to a different activity after safeword, to try and avoid any letdown/disappointment feeling of not being able to achieve whatever outcome.

< Message edited by Cell -- 12/4/2015 8:17:53 AM >
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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 8:30:20 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Ok, just my 2 cents..
First.....What is it, that is causing the safe word to be used excessively. (I have a brain fart so I cant come up with a term better than the ones you offered.)
From m y point of view it could be any number of things, from, it hurts, its scary, its way pasts my comfort zone, little trust, little communication, triggers, panic, brattishness, trouble. plus a myriad of other reasons. of course, Im not suggesting you are guilty of anything.
Does it happen every time with a certain activity, a certain place, position? what are the reasons you have been given for the safeword being used so much? and what is YOUR thoughts on why its being used>?
Personally I have used different words for different ways to cut down on safing with play partners. IE Purple for more....green for position change, and fuck you bitch for ok you went to far, lets talk
For a relationship (mine specifically) I really didnt use safewords cos we knew each other really well, altho a fuck you bitch in any position will get me to sit, cuddle n talk.
Letdown for both sides is not unusual when you are getting to know each other, and especially when trying new things. And sometimes certain activities play on the mind, before, after and if it was "disapointing" is someone blaming the other for something not seen, perceived or listened to/
I dunno if I would use a consequence for using it too often, unless it was brattishness, but I wouldnt ignore it, especially with pushing limits.
That is all I have...just going on what you said.





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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 8:47:36 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell

I'd like to see what people's thoughts are on setting consequences for safewording, the idea being to help a weak willed partner from using it... 'prematurely?' 'excessively?' (Both not the word I'm looking for...)
This is in regards to both parties in the relationship wanting to push limits, but looking for strategies for maybe switching to a different activity after safeword, to try and avoid any letdown/disappointment feeling of not being able to achieve whatever outcome.


There shouldn't ever be any. It's the D/tops responsibility to nurture and cultivate the /s and bring him/her closer to that "edge". Yes, we want to hurt them, but we don't want to damage them. Negative reinforcement is just going to shut the /s down, make them resistant, and possibly cause damage. Damage is very very bad... we see a lot of damaged /s's on here and the other site... potentially excellent /s's too damaged by people that disregard limits, abuse power, manipulate them into thinking they have no choices.

You have to consider it like a marathon. You don't jump out of bed one day and go run one, your train, and train, and train, until you reach the level that will allow you to run a marathon, safely. With great power comes great responsibility... it's like whipping out a great big cock, if you lay it all into him/her at once, they aren't ever going to want to have that experience again. You have to ease into it, make it pleasurable, push him/her a little more and little more until they reach the point that you've ruined them for everyone else and having their entrails pushed up to their chest is the only way they want it. Now, he/she will forgive you if you lay too much in there and hurt them physically, but if you belittle, demean, and punish them for not being able to do "all that you want" you are creating psychological damage and the next person that whips out a big ol cock is going to have a huge struggle on their hands and will have to repair the damage you cause before they can ease them into the pleasure that you denied them.

Jus sayin

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 8:58:52 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		On the other hand, I would get a bit fed up with somebody using the safe word each and every time he or she doesn't really like it or just wants to change the direction of the play, I think if that would happen, I would just stop and not play anymore.

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 9:23:50 AM   
ExiledTyrant


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Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

On the other hand, I would get a bit fed up with somebody using the safe word each and every time he or she doesn't really like it or just wants to change the direction of the play, I think if that would happen, I would just stop and not play anymore.


Simpatico. Crying wolf only goes so far with me.

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 10:30:59 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		If I recall correctly, OP, you don't generally play casually, so I'm led to think that you are specifically asking this from the D/s perspective and not the T/b one. I make this distinction because, frankly, in a casual play partner situation, a person safewording too often tells me two things. One being, we're not compatible as play partners and two, if we're not, I'll find somebody better suited to the task.

Some people would say ceasing the play *IS* the consequence. You might try switching activities but if your specific goal is wanting to push limits, yes, you are reinforcing trust that you'll stop activity X, but you're not necessarily gaining ground in activity X. If you really want the person to push farther in activity X, changing the activities really isn't getting you anywhere. What you're really doing is showing the person that they don't have to push. You'll just do something else instead. Depending on the type of person that you are working with, that bit of disappointment because play ends can be the catalyst for them wanting to go a little harder, a little deeper, a little longer.

I'd balance this depending on what kind of hurdle you are trying to get past, what kind of progress (if any) is being made, and how big of a leap you are asking the person to go from where they are now to what you want to achieve. Other factors would be how long have you been working on it, how important it is to you, and what kind of feedback you are getting when the safewords occur.

As an additional note, you have my thanks for bringing an actual BDSM topic to this section. Kudos.


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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 10:40:46 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		When we're playing M's goal is to get me to "yellow" repeatedly. He loves to drive me to the edge, back down and then build up again. It allows for hours of fun.

The other side of the coin is if I didn't use my "red" when I needed it, I'd be in big trouble.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 12/4/2015 10:42:04 AM >

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 12:13:01 PM   
Cell


Posts: 409
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Some people would say ceasing the play *IS* the consequence. You might try switching activities but if your specific goal is wanting to push limits, yes, you are reinforcing trust that you'll stop activity X, but you're not necessarily gaining ground in activity X. If you really want the person to push farther in activity X, changing the activities really isn't getting you anywhere. What you're really doing is showing the person that they don't have to push. You'll just do something else instead. Depending on the type of person that you are working with, that bit of disappointment because play ends can be the catalyst for them wanting to go a little harder, a little deeper, a little longer.
You touch it with a needle LP, although I think I'm speaking more in terms of a "dynamic vs no dynamic" rather than "play vs no play". Have you had to push back limits much? I mean over a long period of time. Any tips? lol

quote:

As an additional note, you have my thanks for bringing an actual BDSM topic to this section. Kudos.
You're welcome! And you have my thanks for just being you =P keep it up!

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 12:15:57 PM   
Cell


Posts: 409
Status: offline 		*misread nvm

< Message edited by Cell -- 12/4/2015 12:20:10 PM >

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 12:20:12 PM   
OsideGirl


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Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
The other side of the coin is if I didn't use my "red" when I needed it, I'd be in big trouble.

Like what kind of trouble?

Not the fun kind, unfortunately.

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 12:32:08 PM   
Cell


Posts: 409
Status: offline 		Yer, I read it wrong, like there would have been some sort of consequence for using it (skimming posts too fast). I think I get what you are saying now though. I've had experiences in the past where a partner got too emotional and kinda shut down rather than calling it. Not good, I can see where Kana would be coming from.

< Message edited by Cell -- 12/4/2015 12:35:48 PM >

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 12:38:46 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell

Yer, I thought it said "did" not "didn't". I read it like there would have been some sort of consequence. I think I get what you are saying now though. I've had experiences in the past where a partner got too emotional and kinda shut down rather than calling it. Not good, I can see where Kana would be coming from.


In the beginning I had pride get in the way of calling it. Before me, he had played with some intense pain sluts. I'm a masochist, but have a low tolerance. I wanted to be as much fun as the previous girls and ended up harmed enough, that life was difficult for about two weeks. He was very unhappy. He considers me to be the most precious thing in his life and as he says, he likes to hurt me, but doesn't want to harm me and he's not infallible. Especially with the fact that my body's response to things the past two years have been somewhat unpredictable.


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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 12:47:35 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell

Yer, I thought it said "did" not "didn't". I read it like there would have been some sort of consequence. I think I get what you are saying now though. I've had experiences in the past where a partner got too emotional and kinda shut down rather than calling it. Not good, I can see where Kana would be coming from.


In the beginning I had pride get in the way of calling it. Before me, he had played with some intense pain sluts. I'm a masochist, but have a low tolerance. I wanted to be as much fun as the previous girls and ended up harmed enough, that life was difficult for about two weeks. He was very unhappy. He considers me to be the most precious thing in his life and as he says, he likes to hurt me, but doesn't want to harm me and he's not infallible. Especially with the fact that my body's response to things the past two years have been somewhat unpredictable.




You possibly know this already, but as a sadist, it's not "You can take more than X" it's "Wow, for you, you stretch your limits..."

If it would be just about the force, I could use a punching bag, and leather butts are not as fun as somebody who's responsive and where you fine tune the amount of pain you dish out to keep them on the edge of what they can take...

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 1:01:01 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell

Yer, I thought it said "did" not "didn't". I read it like there would have been some sort of consequence. I think I get what you are saying now though. I've had experiences in the past where a partner got too emotional and kinda shut down rather than calling it. Not good, I can see where Kana would be coming from.


In the beginning I had pride get in the way of calling it. Before me, he had played with some intense pain sluts. I'm a masochist, but have a low tolerance. I wanted to be as much fun as the previous girls and ended up harmed enough, that life was difficult for about two weeks. He was very unhappy. He considers me to be the most precious thing in his life and as he says, he likes to hurt me, but doesn't want to harm me and he's not infallible. Especially with the fact that my body's response to things the past two years have been somewhat unpredictable.




You possibly know this already, but as a sadist, it's not "You can take more than X" it's "Wow, for you, you stretch your limits..."

If it would be just about the force, I could use a punching bag, and leather butts are not as fun as somebody who's responsive and where you fine tune the amount of pain you dish out to keep them on the edge of what they can take...


Yes, we had long discussions that it's not about the force, it's about the reaction. He likes that I'm so responsive.

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RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 2:50:55 PM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline 		Do you use the stoplight?

  • Green (love it! keep going)
  • Yellow (getting to be too much, check in with me, but don't stop)
  • Red (STOP, for the love of all that's holy!)

    I thank people for safewording.

    And I only play with people whose limits I know and understand, OR, I don't care if they safeword "too soon" (whatever that means), as they are stopping the scene THEY asked for (I don't initiate play with people outside my inner circle).

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    RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 4:01:54 PM   
    LadyPact


    Posts: 32566
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Cell
    You touch it with a needle LP, although I think I'm speaking more in terms of a "dynamic vs no dynamic" rather than "play vs no play". Have you had to push back limits much? I mean over a long period of time. Any tips? lol

    I'm used to the normal stuff. I almost always seem to run into folks (casual play level) that want to increase their pain tolerance. I also seem to find the folks who want to learn/expand when it comes to sharps. Dynamic-wise, I don't run into it a whole lot because I don't consider that optional with me. It's ok to be a casual play partner. It's ok (when I'm receptive to it) to engage in D/s. Somebody just wanting to do the vanilla relationship without the kink or the dynamic? They need to find somebody else. I'm poly specifically for the BDSM part, so a just vanilla relationship is off of the table.

    I don't know if I'm on the right track with this one, so I'll give it a shot. One thing that I had to work with tk on was coaxing him out of his shell a bit. I did this in little ways at first. Making him disrobe prior to his shower. Take his clothes off so I could make sure he was ready to play. Getting him to skip avoiding eye contact during certain activities. (This was a kick for me too, because I loved making him blush.) It completely worked for us and he'd gain ground in implements. I was a very happy woman when he was in my life.


    quote:

    You're welcome! And you have my thanks for just being you =P keep it up!

    Thanks. I hope I can be helpful on the thread.



    _____________________________

    The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

    Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

    Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

    Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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    RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 4:25:37 PM   
    OsideGirl


    Posts: 14441
    Joined: 7/1/2005
    From: United States
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

    Do you use the stoplight?

  • Green (love it! keep going)
  • Yellow (getting to be too much, check in with me, but don't stop)
  • Red (STOP, for the love of all that's holy!)



    • I've always found having to say green while I'm having fun to be annoying, so we stick with just yellow and red.


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    RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 4:39:25 PM   
    catize


    Posts: 3020
    Joined: 3/7/2006
    Status: offline     		A level of trust takes time to develop; so, yes, there have been situations where I used the safe word too often at first. In one particular dynamic, I realized that I was holding both of us back because after I used the safe word I felt let down when all play stopped. So we discussed it and came up with the plan that, when I used the safe word he would ask me if I could take 5-10 more of whatever he was dishing out. This set a goal for me, and in time, we were able to continue the sessions for longer periods of time.

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    RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 7:17:12 PM   
    DesFIP


    Posts: 25191
    Joined: 11/25/2007
    From: Apple County NY
    Status: offline     		The consequence for using it is that you now know your partner can be trusted to take care of herself. That's positive, if you couldn't tell.

    You don't get to decide when it's too rough for her, she does.

    If you need someone with a heavier pain tolerance, then break up with her first.

    The consequence for you refusing to accept her safeword is her losing trust in you and therefore having to safeword even earlier next time. And eventually refusing to play with you at all. That's negative, if you need it explained.

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    RE: Consequences for safe-wording. - 12/4/2015 7:40:09 PM   
    Greta75


    Posts: 9968
    Joined: 2/6/2011
    Status: offline     		FR

    I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of having consequences for safe wording.

    In 2.5 years with my x-dom. I maybe used my safe word less than 3 times. And this is from being together 24/7 and living together and literally, playing every single day.

    Generally as a dominant, they should have a better idea about their sub's limits as they get to know them and ease them into more challenging things at their pace.

    It's about knowing when to pull back, feeling your sub, before they feel distress enough to safe word it.

    < Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/4/2015 7:41:37 PM >

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