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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/9/2015 2:16:39 PM   
lovmuffin


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Status: offline 		Well then keep repeating it then

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/9/2015 2:18:18 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

So where is the information coming from that we're going to use to vet them with ?


You could try a search on Google and look for things ending in ".gov"?



That's the point, there isn't enough information on them to do a proper job of vetting.

Considering that the last attack (that one in CA) was done by an American & his wife who came into the US on a fiancee visa, I think they vet the refugees pretty thoroughly & multiple times in the 2+ years they wait in some refugee camp... How many terrorists that are/were in the US came in as refugees? seems to me that most (or all?) are either born in the USA or they came in on a tourist or other visa.. just how vetted were they? Its not refugees that make it to the US that you have to worry about, imo... The access to the US is not anywhere as easy as access to other European countries so the US can take its sweet time to do investigations on the refugees, but tourists, fiancees, not so much.. And even the last attack in Paris, it seems none of the attackers were refugees, they were either home grown or they came in on other visas..



I just think the more Muslem refugees we take in the more likely there are going to be problems, possibly even on a 09/11 scale or worse. I suspect those countries in Europe who are and have been taking in so many are going to see things escalate. I will say that I would have thought we would have seen more terror attacks by now so I hope that doesn't lull us into some sort of complacently. I could be wrong, my crystal ball fell off the table and shattered into a million pieces.

People dont need to be Muslim to be a "terrorist" or mass killer, there have been non-Muslim killers too, ya know.. many of those were born in the US.. Heck, I could be a potential terrorist too (ya know, given my views on the US govt & all)..

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/9/2015 4:20:33 PM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
If it's fear that they're extremists then it's unfounded...

Uh...9/11?


quote:

...because the number of cases where refugees are terrorists are so small it almost doesn't exist.

You do see the problem with your conclusions here, right? (see bold)


quote:

It's the 2nd generation immigrants that feel ostracized, likely because of sentiments like this, that produce terrorists.

Do you just invent what you think is the truth? It's the second generation immigrants that tend to be more assimilated than the first and are probably less likely to be radicalized.


What we have to remember here is, IS know how to create the perfect soldier...the West taught them well. One of the enticements to join their rebel army is money along with the spoils of war. Men and women living in the war torn areas of Syria are desperately poor and reading reports that come directly out of Raqqa, its not radicalisation that's enticing new members but the promise of wealth.

The Al Qaeda camps that plotted 9/11 regularly flew their carefully hand picked terrorists back and forth via business class. They paid for them to attend uni, own nice cars, decent houses and take flying lessons. Before their martyrdom they had the best of everything and wanted for nothing.

Why would they risk highly trained foot soldiers; men who were willing to commit martyrdom for their cause, by sending them in leaky boats across unpredictable oceans ? They would fly them to America, probably from SA, (like they did with Al Qaeda) and they would most likely enter without problem on business visas.

Whilst some of these refugees may be radicalized, I doubt they are known or cared about by IS.

From what we have witnessed on British shores, the cell groups that have been routed out by MI5 are second generation extremists. The one's who have fled our shores to go and join IS in Syria are the second and 3rd generations, not the ones who came here 2,3 or 4 years ago. We even have English women suddenly convert to Islam and leave for Syria. All I can think is, IS for these silly vulnerable girls are seen by them as some sort of Lawrence of Arabia.

Radicalization of second generation immigrants could potentially be a huge problem. If we don't attempt to include these people, instead of supporting the society they are raised in, they will inevitably look for alternatives.

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/9/2015 5:52:53 PM   
DesideriScuri


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I found this to be an extremely interesting article. Might bring some clarity to some people who post on here.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/30/3-u-s-refugee-laws-everyone-forgets/

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/9/2015 6:21:57 PM   
Greta75


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I really like Mike Huckabee about Muslim Land Sanctuary to house these Syrians until they can go home.

And the oil nations can foot the cost, or play a part in housing them as well in their own turf.

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/9/2015 6:30:30 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		Greta, it doesn't work. That's what Australia has done up to a point..................housed the refugees in offshore facilities. The bleeding hearts are calling for them to be released into the community though and to process them while they are free instead of in the facilities and meanwhile the refugees are rioting and causing mayhem in those facilities. They have been likened to concentration camps but that again, is by the bleeding hearts here.

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/9/2015 8:06:45 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		Well, when the syrians were allowed into Germany, CNN was interviewing them and they were commenting like, how they were treated worst than animals in Germany. Basically complaining and saying they are not happy.
And yet Germans have been nothing but completely hospitable to them and trying their best to deal with the overwhelming influx.

All I can say is, if i was a refugee, I would like to be a little more grateful to any country who is willing to help out and give us temporary shelter.





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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/9/2015 8:33:55 PM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-12-09/bloomberg-politics-poll-trump-muslim-ban-proposal

Trump's bloomberg pole on the muslim ban proposal

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Refugee Camps - 12/9/2015 9:01:46 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		I think we all need to remember Trump sayz Temporary ban UNTIL we can figure out how to filter the good from the bad.

His focus wasn't bigotry but simply about national security.

It's literally a simplistic pragmatic solution to solve the issue of Muslim Terrorist disguised as good Muslims to sneak into the US.

But it's not politically correct so poor Trump, he can't say anything without it being blown out of proportion.








< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/9/2015 9:02:52 PM >

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 3:24:52 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Well, when the syrians were allowed into Germany, CNN was interviewing them and they were commenting like, how they were treated worst than animals in Germany. Basically complaining and saying they are not happy.
And yet Germans have been nothing but completely hospitable to them and trying their best to deal with the overwhelming influx.

All I can say is, if i was a refugee, I would like to be a little more grateful to any country who is willing to help out and give us temporary shelter.



You read what you want to back up your own hatred. The propagandists love people like you Greta.

“No human race is superior; no religious faith is inferior. All collective judgements are wrong. Only racists make them”
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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 7:26:56 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

You read what you want to back up your own hatred. The propagandists love people like you Greta.

“No human race is superior; no religious faith is inferior. All collective judgements are wrong. Only racists make them”
― Elie Wiesel


I didn't read. I watch CNN on cable when the whole influx was happening. I wasn't even deliberately looking for news like that. I flip between news channels, interview came up.

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 9:10:45 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

You read what you want to back up your own hatred. The propagandists love people like you Greta.

“No human race is superior; no religious faith is inferior. All collective judgements are wrong. Only racists make them”
― Elie Wiesel


I didn't read. I watch CNN on cable when the whole influx was happening. I wasn't even deliberately looking for news like that. I flip between news channels, interview came up.



Oh good...so you have a full understanding NOT


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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 9:13:07 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html

I dont think it is muslims we should ban until we figure out what is going on. We know what is going on, and muslims ain't even slightly in the running, here.

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 3:04:22 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html

I dont think it is muslims we should ban until we figure out what is going on. We know what is going on, and muslims ain't even slightly in the running, here.

This is the intelligence my country has gathered.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-sees-islamist-militancy-clear-present-danger-asia-192819080.html

Ng said that in the past three years the numbers of Islamic State sympathizers had exceeded the number of supporters al Qaeda had in the 10 years in which it was influential.

"And the returned fighters have come back and pledged allegiance to ISIS and the mission to form an Islamic caliphate in our part of the world," Ng said.

"They have sympathizers; they have foreign fighters who have been trained, have the motivation and the means, and who have a common vision. And so we look at this threat very carefully."Ng said members of Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), an al Qaeda offshoot that planned bomb attacks in Singapore in the early 2000s, had pledged allegiance to ISIS, as well as the Abu Sayyaf group in the Philippines.

"So the danger is a link up formalising of these loose groups into a force that will threaten our security and well being."

Seriously, we haven't had a islamic terrorist attack in our home ground yet, because it was always foiled before it could happen. We have been heavily about prevention. There are announcement in our train stations constantly, many ads put up about how to identify suspicious people, or suspicious item. People are encouraged to report anything suspicious, whether they are unsure if it really is or not. And it will be investigated.

What Donald suggest is a unpolitical correct way of prevention, as you guys don't even have the freedom to arrest terrorist suspect base on flimsy data, better to be safe but sorry.

Seems to have alot of red tape to do their jobs.

We don't have to ban Muslims, because, we can simply arrest those and put them in indefinite detention IF there is even remotely any sign, like their internet search history, or face book, that suggest they are radicalized.

We also got the Muslim community to take responsibility and put out a plan of action of how are they going to actively make sure their community do not get radicalized, we make it their responsibility to ensure so. But I guess by allowing them a little piece of their Sharia courts and a little governing among themselves, sets them up to be responsible for their little community too, since they are enforcing some muslim laws among themselves.

What I realise is, Muslim in the west only want to complain about discrimination but not interested in being part of the solution to prevent their fellow muslim people from being radicalised.

Part of these problems are the enabling of the west, the political correctness that enables them to shirk responsibility. This is an issue that needs to stop being skirted around IF anybody is serious about prevention.

Why does the west have to wait for an attack to happen before action is taken? And then Obama lamely saying, it's difficult to identify self-radicalized Muslims. It's difficult because it would be politically incorrect to profile them.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/10/2015 3:09:36 PM >

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 3:31:42 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		I think we also have to remember that there are propagandists on ALL sides of this fence and they not only love people with mildly extreme views but also those wishy-washy bleeding hearts that would rather talk than act.

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 4:05:16 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		I think Greta that you may find there are departments within the government that pretty much do their own thing as far as terrorism and similar are concerned. The government of the day may pay lip-service to all the things the bleeding hearts say should be done to make the terrorists warm and comfy, but the departments I speak of have a slightly different agenda. In Australia, one of them used to be DOTARS but it has had a name change. In France, they were known as ' Les Barbouzes' who worked hand in glove with the SDECE and were very scary. In UK they have a variety of departments beginning with one, or more, of the M.I. departments.
And before the snide remarks start flying, YES I do have experience of them, and YES, I do hold what may be termed fairly extreme views on some things.

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 5:08:48 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		I dont think getting into the country is much of a problem. Otherwise we wouldn't have so many illegals here already. Our borders are basically wide open.

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 5:11:11 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
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Status: offline 		Yes Ken.................that's why Tony Abbots solution won't work for you. We are an island.................a bloody BIG island but and island nonetheless. Boats can be spotted and tracked days or weeks before they arrive in our waters, so they can be turned back or sent to an offshore facility. you don't have that luxury over there.

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RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 9:45:17 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		I wish we did. Look at the Drug Trade that comes in by land air and sea. We are wide open.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Refugee Camps - 12/10/2015 9:54:09 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		I think that is worldwide Ken.....................and where the countries don't import the drugs, they manufacture their own. It's a major industry in this country I know. Probably employs more people than McDonalds *smile*

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