RE: CDC and Firearms

RE: CDC and Firearms (Full Version)

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joether -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 11:32:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV There was no evidence of murder. The police knew that at the scene. The prosecution knew it at trial. And the jury knew it when they returned a verdict. We all know that the televised court proceedings only came about because of pressure from the community, the media, and the DoJ probably with a nudge from the Obama Administration. Zimmerman killed Treyvon. He never denied that. Whether he really did it because Treyvon went for the gun, or because he was tired of getting his ass kicked is difficult to say. Either way, in that moment he believed his life was in danger, and acted accordingly. But there can be no doubt that Treyvon was being stalked through the neighborhood. He had done nothing to deserve that. If you guys can't even put yourself in his place for a moment, and really think about what you would have done, then there is no point of continuing this conversation. If he had followed the POLICE DISPATCH (aka the Well Regulated Militia whom have....RULES)...Mr. Treyvon would be alive today. That is the difference between "A thug with a gun" and "A well regulated militia". Thugs will decide things without any regard to standing protocols or rules. A police officer would not have followed the suspect as Mr. Zimmerman did. They would call for back up of at least two other officers. When they engaged the suspect (Mr. Treyvon) they would have identified themselves. Did Mr. Zimmerman identify himself? No of course not. Thugs do not feel a need to do such an action. If Mr. Zimmerman was in a militia, he would have followed the rules, rather than 'take the law into his own hands'. And that is one of the many problems why the 2nd amendment is corrupted. When he went after the boy from his house, he took his gun. He wanted to engaged the suspect directly. If he only wanted to follow but not interact with the suspect; why did he get out of the car (against the dispatch's orders) and proceed on foot, alone, in a dark area? Mr. Zimmerman made a pile of dumb mistakes as a 'wannabe militia' that got someone killed. Someone he should have been protecting....

BamaD -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 11:44:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV There was no evidence of murder. The police knew that at the scene. The prosecution knew it at trial. And the jury knew it when they returned a verdict. We all know that the televised court proceedings only came about because of pressure from the community, the media, and the DoJ probably with a nudge from the Obama Administration. Zimmerman killed Treyvon. He never denied that. Whether he really did it because Treyvon went for the gun, or because he was tired of getting his ass kicked is difficult to say. Either way, in that moment he believed his life was in danger, and acted accordingly. But there can be no doubt that Treyvon was being stalked through the neighborhood. He had done nothing to deserve that. If you guys can't even put yourself in his place for a moment, and really think about what you would have done, then there is no point of continuing this conversation. If he had followed the POLICE DISPATCH (aka the Well Regulated Militia whom have....RULES)...Mr. Treyvon would be alive today. That is the difference between "A thug with a gun" and "A well regulated militia". Thugs will decide things without any regard to standing protocols or rules. A police officer would not have followed the suspect as Mr. Zimmerman did. They would call for back up of at least two other officers. When they engaged the suspect (Mr. Treyvon) they would have identified themselves. Did Mr. Zimmerman identify himself? No of course not. Thugs do not feel a need to do such an action. If Mr. Zimmerman was in a militia, he would have followed the rules, rather than 'take the law into his own hands'. And that is one of the many problems why the 2nd amendment is corrupted. When he went after the boy from his house, he took his gun. He wanted to engaged the suspect directly. If he only wanted to follow but not interact with the suspect; why did he get out of the car (against the dispatch's orders) and proceed on foot, alone, in a dark area? Mr. Zimmerman made a pile of dumb mistakes as a 'wannabe militia' that got someone killed. Someone he should have been protecting.... Two big flaws in your post. Zimmerman did call for the police, remember he was on the phone most of the time. Zimmerman did not initiate the confrontation, Martin did. When the confrontation occured Zimmerman was on his way back to his vehicle. That Zimmerman had lost Martin is confirmed both by his statements to the dispatcher and by Martin's comment to his girlfriend. She also confirmed that Martin initiated the confrontation. There was no evidence that Zimmerman was a thug with a gun, the state had no case at all. Why are you still arguing a case where you were proven wrong years ago? Do you have so much emotional investment in this that you can't face reallity and let it go?

lovmuffin -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:07:07 PM)
There are more than just 2 flaws in his post. Martin is the one who was the thug. The police are not the militia and Mr Zimmerman is.

BamaD -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:12:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin There are more than just 2 flaws in his post. Martin is the one who was the thug. The police are not the militia and Mr Zimmerman is. I know but I was focusing on the most blatant mistakes. Even though he normally posts walls he has trouble comprehending toomany points at one time.

joether -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:22:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Two big flaws in your post. You have some flaws with your thinking here.... quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Zimmerman did call for the police, remember he was on the phone most of the time. What did they tell him to do? DO NOT FOLLOW THE SUSPECT. It was pretty clear order from an ACTUAL Militia. Either Mr. Zimmerman disobeyed a direct order from a superior ranked officer (if we are going the militia route), or he's an idiot (we are going the 'thug with a gun' route). Either way, this action would set things in motion. Mr. Zimmerman would have plenty of opportunities to bail before the final encounter. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Zimmerman did not initiate the confrontation, Martin did. When the confrontation occured Zimmerman was on his way back to his vehicle. 1. Mr. Zimmerman started following the suspect in his car. 2. Mr. Zimmerman left the car (after dispatch told him not to follow) to proceed on foot after the suspect. 3. Mr. Zimmerman did not call out to the suspect or in any way show proper identification that he had authority to stop someone (i.e. law enforcement powers). 4. Mr. Zimmerman STALKED the suspect whom it seems had identified the tail and was trying to flee from possible danger. Mr. Zimmerman created the conditions for the confrontation to take place. Mr. Zimmerman states he was going back to his car when he was attacked. To bad we can not question Mr. Treyvon, eh? You take Mr. Zimmerman's word, since he is a fellow gun nut like you, right? There is not evidence supporting Mr. Zimmerman's claim other than his words. Oh, and that Mr. Zimmerman had training previously to determine the sort of 'things and evidence' police would look for to determine 'right and wrong'. And that the police had tampered a bit with things (or fumbled). It all seems pretty 'convenient' in Mr. Zimmerman's favor. Hence why the FBI started their own investigation.... The moment Mr. Zimmerman left his car to proceed on foot, started the confrontation with Mr. Treyvon. That is the moment Mr. Zimmerman stopped being a 'Neighborhood Watchman' and became 'A stalker with a firearm'. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD That Zimmerman had lost Martin is confirmed both by his statements to the dispatcher and by Martin's comment to his girlfriend. An he should have stood at the moment the trail went cold, rather than backtracking without knowledge of the suspect's whereabouts. You never really studied being the hunted after being the hunter, eh? Its a whole different set of tactics and mindset one must engage to survive. He should have hunkered down in the best defensive position available and waited for the cavalry that was already enroute. This is another one of his 'dumb mistakes'. Thanks for bringing it up.... quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD She also confirmed that Martin initiated the confrontation. How could she confirm something that she could not visually see? Its a cellphone call by sound only. Was the cellphone in operation when Mr. Treyvon engaged the unidentified 'millitia' that was stalking him in the dead of night? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD There was no evidence that Zimmerman was a thug with a gun, the state had no case at all. There is evidence he is just a 'thug with a gun'. What Law Enforcement Powers does he have? Is he a local cop? State Trooper? FBI? US Marshal? Secret Service? ATF? ICE? County Sheriff? What is a thug? 1. a tough and violent man, esp a criminal Yes, Mr. Zimmerman was a thug. He was tough because he had a firearm. Would he have left his car and stalked after Mr. Treyvon if he did not have a gun? In order for you to say Mr. Zimmerman is not a thug, you would have to prove Mr. Zimmerman would have taken all those actions...WITHOUT....a firearm. Good Luck! quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Why are you still arguing a case where you were proven wrong years ago? Do you have so much emotional investment in this that you can't face reallity and let it go? Reality? Some black kid got gunned down by a gun nut thinking "The Ends Justify The Means" to his elevation to being hired as a police officer. What did the black kid do exactly? Walked on a sidewalk (yeah, cus that's a crime in Florida, right?). He was not doing....ANYTHING...illegal. Mr. Zimmerman's comments show he had an immediate racist 'bent' towards Mr. Treyvon. After all "...his kind...." do evil things, right? Yeah, Mr. Zimmerman got away with murder. 'Hurray' for the Justice System. Since this kid's murder would eventually lead to the Black Lives Matter movement being created. If I was proved wrong, answer my questions. That's right, BamaD, you CANT. Particularly the one: would he have stalked after the kid in the first place if he didn't have a gun. Start there and work your way forward. You call yourself a winner of that discussion much like Mr. Bush declared 'Mission Accomplished'.

joether -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:26:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin There are more than just 2 flaws in his post. Martin is the one who was the thug. The police are not the militia and Mr Zimmerman is. How was Mr. Treyvon a thug? He was seen walking down a sidewalk at night. Explain how that makes the person a thug? The Police...ARE....the militia from the 2nd amendment. Or have you no clue of US History? Mr. Zimmerman had...ZERO...law enforcement powers as determined by the city and state he resided. A member of "A well regulated militia...." is a person whom has been property vetted by the rules, laws, and protocols of the militia that serves the public. Mr. Zimmerman had not fully qualified, therefore, he was not a member of the militia. Again, study some US History....

joether -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:27:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin There are more than just 2 flaws in his post. Martin is the one who was the thug. The police are not the militia and Mr Zimmerman is. I know but I was focusing on the most blatant mistakes. Even though he normally posts walls he has trouble comprehending toomany points at one time. You two need things as simplified as possible. Since more complicated stuff seems to mystify you both...

lovmuffin -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:44:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin There are more than just 2 flaws in his post. Martin is the one who was the thug. The police are not the militia and Mr Zimmerman is. How was Mr. Treyvon a thug? He was seen walking down a sidewalk at night. Explain how that makes the person a thug? The Police...ARE....the militia from the 2nd amendment. Or have you no clue of US History? Mr. Zimmerman had...ZERO...law enforcement powers as determined by the city and state he resided. A member of "A well regulated militia...." is a person whom has been property vetted by the rules, laws, and protocols of the militia that serves the public. Mr. Zimmerman had not fully qualified, therefore, he was not a member of the militia. Again, study some US History.... The Police...ARE NOT....the militia from the 2nd amendment. You have no clue of US History? You're making that up. Also Birdbrain, Zimmerman was not told DO NOT FOLLOW THE SUSPECT, you're making that up too.

BamaD -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:48:15 PM)
DO NOT FOLLOW THE SUSPECT. Leftist myth, they said you don't have to follow him, not at all the same thing.

mnottertail -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:49:51 PM)
zimmerman is guilty of murder. and if someone stalks me, or walks parallel to me and skulks behind me in the dark of night as I am going home, I would fear for my life and shoot the criminal bastard. Also the law. Corporations are people too, my friend. Money is speech. Are you an American, or a corporate catamite and free-market communist? You can't have it both ways.

BamaD -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:51:28 PM)
An he should have stood at the moment the trail went cold, rather than backtracking without knowledge of the suspect's whereabouts. Nobody said he was perfect but you admit that Martin came after him, that makes it self defense. This has nothing to do with the militia.

dcnovice -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:52:14 PM)
quote: Zimmerman was not told DO NOT FOLLOW THE SUSPECT, you're making that up too. Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that. Zimmerman: Ok https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/326700/full-transcript-zimmerman.pdf

BamaD -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:54:16 PM)
There is evidence he is just a 'thug with a gun'. What Law Enforcement Powers does he have? Is he a local cop? State Trooper? FBI? US Marshal? Secret Service? ATF? ICE? County Sheriff? Not being a government representative does not make you a thug. Right after this exchange Zimmerman started back to his vehical.

BamaD -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 12:58:48 PM)
How could she confirm something that she could not visually see? Its a cellphone call by sound only. Was the cellphone in operation when Mr. Treyvon engaged the unidentified 'millitia' that was stalking him in the dead of night? Yes it was. Martin asked if Zimmerman had a problem and attacked before he could answer. Zimmerman didn't get close enough to identify himself before Martin attacked him. He observed Martin as per his duty as a member of the neighborhood watch, he did not make any effort to confront or apprehend Martin.

BamaD -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 1:05:21 PM)
You call yourself a winner of that discussion much like Mr. Bush declared 'Mission Accomplished'. Read again, I didn't say I won the discussion, the law did, you were on the wrong side of the law and can't admit it. As for if Zimmerman would have still reported on where Martin was without a gun, good chance because he wasn't trying to confront him. But it doesn't matter since Martin attacked him, not the other way around. Martin confronted him. not the other way around. Get your irational view of self defense in check and you will see that Zimmerman was well withing the law. Answer this, if Zimmerman had been a 10th degree black belt in Karate and broken Martins neck would you honestly say the same things? You will say yes because you have to so that you don't look like the narrow minded anti-gun bigot that you are, but think about it.

lovmuffin -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 1:19:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Zimmerman was not told DO NOT FOLLOW THE SUSPECT, you're making that up too. Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that. Zimmerman: Ok https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/326700/full-transcript-zimmerman.pdf So, tell that to the birdbrain.

BamaD -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 1:27:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Zimmerman was not told DO NOT FOLLOW THE SUSPECT, you're making that up too. Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that. Zimmerman: Ok https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/326700/full-transcript-zimmerman.pdf Right he was told they didn't need for him to do that, a far cry from telling him not to do it. Right after this exchange Zimmerman started back to his vehical but didn't reach it because Martin attacked him in route.

Termyn8or -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 3:08:33 PM)
Bama, you got to realize that some people want the crimes to happen. They want someone like Martin to go into people's backyards and steal shit. Maybe confront and kill some old person out for a smoke. This proves smoking is bad for your health. And for the record, people have this dumb idea about the concept of the militia. A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free STATE [COMMA] the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. The militia does indeed belong to the government. But the 2nd does not say the right of the militia, it does not say the right of the state, it says the PEOPLE. So apparently some people do not even know they are People. And they seem not to think Zimmerman was a People. And they forget that these neighborhood watches are not only sanctioned by the local governments, some of them are actually started and organized by local government. What they are usually told is that "You are our eyes and ears". They are discouraged from trying to make Citizen's arrests, which was not the case here. they are not necessarily discouraged from going out armed as long as they got the CCW, or open carry with some sort of vest or uniform type thing. but see that would decrease their effectiveness. Crime happens when people think they can get away with it. If you are out there in an orange vest with a gun hanging off your belt in plain sight, nobody is going to try shit until you move on. That is why I advocate CCW. In fact the background checks should be lax. Tightening them up does no good anyway because the people who snap seem to be perfectly normal n some cases. In others they have a shrink and are on psyche drugs. Should those people be denied their second amendment rights ? No, not until they abuse it, then kill them, because the guy ten feet away also has a gun and instead of ten people dying, one dies. I do not see why some people do not seem to understand this. This society is too fucking dangerous for Women and old people, hell for anyone. I can't fight anymore and I can't run. What do you want me to do ? Joe probably is quite well to do and lives in a gated community, or possibly one of those places where there is one cop for every ten residents. the taxes are ridiculous but they can afford to be away from the danger they wish for us not to be able to defend against. they have never been robbed, never even talked to a criminal and are probably such arrogant SOBs that they can't go to bars. I don't mean restaurants that serve alcohol, I mean bars where people go to talk n shit. they would get their ass kicked. And you know what, I bet they have guns. I bet Diane Feinstein, one of the worst traitors in this country and wants to disarm EVERYONE but the government in this country has a gun. I bet my LIFE she has a gun. (and I cannot believe she runs unopposed time and time again, you would think someone... ... but then that is Califuckingbrainlessfornia) For those who have not read it, I will link to it once again, written by a psychiatrist : http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ragingagainstselfdefense.htm And that site is JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP. You will find in life that many people want for you something quite different than they want for themselves. And, if Martin was skulking around my backyard he would have been just as dead. Know what ? One of my favorite TV scenes is at the beginning of Gunsmoke where Matt Dillon shoots someone and then looks real intent in the same direction as if to make sure he got him. Pretty sure this it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqpa8i7R4uM I thought that look was more intense but oh well. Being a marshall he no doubt shot a criminal. And there's another one. Doc was stuck somewhere and the guy was beating his pregnant Wife. Doc told the guy "If you beat her again I'll kill you". Later she shows up all beaten up again and Doc shoots the guy. someone else in the room checked out the body and said "You killed him" and a Man who swore that hippocratic oath said calmly "I meant to". That is what we need today. This "Don't take the law into your own hands" is a bunch of total bullshit spewed by those who have no idea of reality, or have a vested interest in crime. It is ALL OF OUR duty to protect ourselves and our communities. When seconds count the cops are minutes away. What did people do when the "cops" were DAYS away ? Well we have to get back to that because unlike the liberal version of the world "getting ever better" because they live off the government through, and that means work too not just welfare, things are not getting better. There is ore poverty than ever and it is coming to people who never knew it. they are not used to hunger and cold. I do not mean cold as you ride your snowblower down your half mile driveway, I mean cold as in haven't been warn in a week. when people start experiencing this they will turn to crime for self preservation. Then you are dealing with the desperate. What is the root of the word "Desperado" ? Comes down to it, some will turn to cannibalism, but they will find that people with guns leave a bad taste in between their eyes. Well it has been fun to pontificate about all this but it is all simply common sense. I just do it because the fucking idiots who think it is better to need it and not have it keep spewing their bullshit. I would have shot Martin TWICE to make sure he is dead. God damn sure. And if he was White, I would have made the shot to make him suffer. Really, Whites taking to crime rally piss me off even more. Fuck up the statistics. Let them say more Whites are killed by Whites than Blacks. But they forget the whole number. We got ten Blacks killed by Blacks and four Whites killed by Whites and that proves something ? That saying they commit more crime, and I mean robbery, rape and murder, than Whites is racist ? No matter what color your skin, if I see you creeping around my backyard you better be under four feet tall. I will do my best not to shoot a kid that just wandered off. But Martin was not one of them. He was a thug looking for something to steal. His movements and actions prove it hands down. But people have been trained to bend over backwards for them because of slavery. It is called White guilt and it is all the rage at the indoctrination centers (schools) and the media. Well they ain't fooling me and I got FBI statistics to shut them up. Not that they will. they will always be out there "Give up your guns, give up your guns". And at least half of them want to keep theirs. fucking all this stupidity and hypocrites as well. Very hard to respect to say the least. T^T And they won't want to be criminals, they will simply have no choice.

PeonForHer -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 3:33:44 PM)
quote: And, if Martin was skulking around my backyard he would have been just as dead. quote: I do not see why some people do not seem to understand this. This society is too fucking dangerous for Women and old people, hell for anyone. I can't fight anymore and I can't run. What do you want me to do ? Probably best that you don't ever do anything that could be interpreted as 'skulking'. Like, for instance, getting drunk and going into an alleyway to take a piss. [;)]

dcnovice -> RE: CDC and Firearms (12/29/2015 3:54:27 PM)
quote: Right he was told they didn't need for him to do that, a far cry from telling him not to do it. Honestly, I don't think it's that big a difference. The phrasing is slightly different, but the import--Do Not Follow--is exactly the same. ETA: In my own experience with managing volunteers, I've definitely had occasion to say "We don't need you to do that" when I really yearned to say "Please stop that now, you moron."

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