RE: Unreasonable?

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thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 4:42:49 AM)
ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Nice post CD. Only the most ignorant of racists would feel so. The case for reparations suffers some other glaring difficulties. 1. The total number of slaves imported into the united states over its entire history was approximately 400k. One of your garing difficulties is that you wish to conflate imports with the total number of slaves in amerika. On the eve of the civil war more than 4 million slaves lived in the usa. The average price paid per slave over this time was roughly $500 per slave. Call it $200,000,000 unadjusted for the entire period over 150 years - and you get a value of about 2 million a year. So you wish us to believe that the price of a slave was .50 cents each[8\|] Compare this to the cost of just the revolutionary war of $66 million dollars that the continental congresses allocated - which in itself represented a tiny fraction of the money spent by the states and an even tinier percentage of the value of all goods and services and you can see that any claim that the country was formed on the back of negro labor is entirely specious. Only to morons who would posit such idiocy. 2. In 1860 the national debt was $60 million. In 1865 it was 2.7 billion dollars. An 1879 report put he total cost of the civil war at 8.3 billion dollars. Pension costs to soldiers were roughly 300 million dollars per year. Would you have a source for this data? Or is it a secret? " The total number of slaves imported into the united states over its entire history was approximately 400k". "There were approximately 4 million slaves at that time". Both of these statements are yours.[8\|] But in addition to capital costs, there were more than 15 million acres of land given to soldiers and slaves after the civil war. Curiously you fail to document your opinions. Well perhaps not all that curious.[8\|] More than 91 million rations were handed out in the 15 months after the war to slaves. 91 million devided by 15 months equals (even for dumbasses) 6 million rations for 4 million people or 1.5 rations per month.[8\|] 4,300 schools were built. 4 million devided by 4300 euals (even for dumbasses) 1 school per 100,000 people [8\|] So, focusing on debt alone and ignoring hundreds of millions of dollars of taxing authority spent in furtherance of the civil war, you can see that the cost the government spent on fighting the civil war - leaving out the human costs, exceeded the price per slave more than 400%. When you consider that almost a million americans died in this fight to free four million slaves one has to wonder - does that not hold weight? Your arguement falls flat on it's face when you claim that the civil war was fought to free slaves. Lincoln said this to horace greely "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery." http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 5:06:55 AM)
ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant excerpted from: Alfred L. Brophy, The Cultural War over Reparations for Slavery , 53 DePaul Law Review 1201-1211 (Spring 2004) (116 footnotes) The most famous statement of the arguments against reparations comes from David Horowitz, who took out a series of advertisements in college newspapers in the spring of 2001. His advertisement, entitled, "Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Slavery are a Bad Idea and Racist, Too," established the basis for the arguments against reparations. Horowitz' ten points are: 1. There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery Half truth and whole lie. There are multiple groups...slave owners and those who profited from slavery are a clearly definable group. 2. There Is No One Group That Benefitted Exclusively From Its Fruits Half truth and whole lie. There are multiple groups...slave owners and those who profited from slavery are a clearly definable group. 3. Only A Tiny Minority Of White Americans Ever Owned Slaves, And Others Gave Their Lives To Free Them Almost one-third of all Southern families owned slaves. In Mississippi and South Carolina it approached one half. The total number of slave owners was 385,000 (including, in Louisiana, some free Negroes). As for the number of slaves owned by each master, 88% held fewer than twenty, and nearly 50% held fewer than five. http://www.civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm 4. America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery Just as standard oil, ford and coke had no connection to the nazis. http://www.11points.com/News-Politics/11_Companies_That_Surprisingly_Collaborated_With_the_Nazis 5. The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury The injury was to a race[8\|] 6. The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination Since the opposite is demonstrably verifiable this is simple bullshit. 7. The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community. As if their awareness of their victimhood was a secret to them?[8\|] 8. Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid Where is the tally sheet? 9. What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America? What, exactly do blacks owe to amerika? 10. The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom. Roflmao[8\|]

thishereboi -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 5:17:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx What is abundantly clear is that you do read my post but are unable to reply with anything other than vituperous verbage...rational thought seems to be beyond your pall. I know, guilty as charged. I guess at times i think it might be possible to get an intelligent answer from you and try to engage but then you spew your usual garbage, twist words and change subjects at which point I remember why I ignored you in the past and go back to doing so again.

thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 5:43:22 AM)
ORIGINAL: thishereboi ORIGINAL: thompsonx What is abundantly clear is that you do read my post but are unable to reply with anything other than vituperous verbage...rational thought seems to be beyond your pall. I know, guilty as charged. As usual. I guess at times i think That has never been shown to be true. it might be possible to get an intelligent answer from you and try to engage but then you spew your usual garbage, twist words and change subjects at which point I remember why I ignored you in the past and go back to doing so again. We all thank you for not wasting any more bandwidth with your inane, peurile comments. It is always far better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you an ignorant fool rather than to open it and remove all doubt.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 8:39:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant excerpted from: Alfred L. Brophy, The Cultural War over Reparations for Slavery , 53 DePaul Law Review 1201-1211 (Spring 2004) (116 footnotes) The most famous statement of the arguments against reparations comes from David Horowitz, who took out a series of advertisements in college newspapers in the spring of 2001. His advertisement, entitled, "Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Slavery are a Bad Idea and Racist, Too," established the basis for the arguments against reparations. Horowitz' ten points are: 1. There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery Half truth and whole lie. There are multiple groups...slave owners and those who profited from slavery are a clearly definable group. 2. There Is No One Group That Benefitted Exclusively From Its Fruits Half truth and whole lie. There are multiple groups...slave owners and those who profited from slavery are a clearly definable group. 3. Only A Tiny Minority Of White Americans Ever Owned Slaves, And Others Gave Their Lives To Free Them Almost one-third of all Southern families owned slaves. In Mississippi and South Carolina it approached one half. The total number of slave owners was 385,000 (including, in Louisiana, some free Negroes). As for the number of slaves owned by each master, 88% held fewer than twenty, and nearly 50% held fewer than five. http://www.civilwarcauses.org/stat.htm 4. America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery Just as standard oil, ford and coke had no connection to the nazis. http://www.11points.com/News-Politics/11_Companies_That_Surprisingly_Collaborated_With_the_Nazis 5. The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury The injury was to a race[8\|] 6. The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination Since the opposite is demonstrably verifiable this is simple bullshit. 7. The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community. As if their awareness of their victimhood was a secret to them?[8\|] 8. Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid Where is the tally sheet? 9. What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America? What, exactly do blacks owe to amerika? 10. The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom. Roflmao[8\|] That's about all you're good for...laughing. I gave you two different articles with over 116 footnotes explaining a different view than the one commonly held by those filled with white guilt. I'd bring more but let's face it, you're going to come down on the 'white guilt-cracker owes' side with your own cites, claiming that...somehow...they make more sense. Only to those with your viewpoint. But to make it interesting: http://staugustine.com/stories/051602/nat_717618.shtml#.VoKykYHn_qB https://newrepublic.com/article/90734/against-reparations

thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 9:10:01 AM)
That's about all you're good for...laughing. I laugh at your pathetic attempts to justify your racism. I gave you two different articles with over 116 footnotes explaining a different view than the one commonly held by those filled with white guilt. You may have noticed that I have refuted all of your nonsense with facts and not opinion which is all that you have posted. I'd bring more So far you have brought nothing but opinion. but let's face it, you're going to come down on the 'white guilt-cracker owes' side with your own cites, claiming that...somehow...they make more sense. Only to those with your viewpoint. You have posted opinions and nothing more. I have posted facts which you have thus far been unable to refute.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 11:24:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx That's about all you're good for...laughing. I laugh at your pathetic attempts to justify your racism. I gave you two different articles with over 116 footnotes explaining a different view than the one commonly held by those filled with white guilt. You may have noticed that I have refuted all of your nonsense with facts and not opinion which is all that you have posted. I'd bring more So far you have brought nothing but opinion. but let's face it, you're going to come down on the 'white guilt-cracker owes' side with your own cites, claiming that...somehow...they make more sense. Only to those with your viewpoint. You have posted opinions and nothing more. I have posted facts which you have thus far been unable to refute. Facts? I don't recall any of your stuff coming from a university study. Or a think tank. As for your continuing assertion that I...or anyone who disagrees with your "white wrong, blacks right" point of view...are racist, that's YOUR ignorant opinion.

thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 12:43:48 PM)
ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Facts? I don't recall any of your stuff coming from a university study. Or a think tank. Why do you think that those are the only source of facts? As for your continuing assertion that I...or anyone who disagrees with your "white wrong, blacks right" point of view...are racist, that's YOUR ignorant opinion. Since that is not my position your statement is the ignorant opinion.

mnottertail -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 12:44:46 PM)
think tanks are rarely a source of fact, rather they are a scourge of them.

thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 12:50:52 PM)
ORIGINAL: mnottertail think tanks are rarely a source of fact, rather they are a scourge of them. So also with "university studies"

CreativeDominant -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 3:34:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant Facts? I don't recall any of your stuff coming from a university study. Or a think tank. Why do you think that those are the only source of facts? As for your continuing assertion that I...or anyone who disagrees with your "white wrong, blacks right" point of view...are racist, that's YOUR ignorant opinion. Since that is not my position your statement is the ignorant opinion. I don't think those are the only source of facts. But in your case, you are generally the one who often brings forth articles as your cites while condemning those who do likewise. Of course, I forget that your the same guy who thinks the Holder-Obama D.O.J. is spot on in their way of conducting business. As for the rest, that does seem to be your position...unless you'd care to bring forth ANY post of yours that states otherwise?

bounty44 -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 5:21:44 PM)
personally, I think there is some psychological disorder going on...beyond that of normal liberalism.

bounty44 -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 5:33:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail think tanks are rarely a source of fact, rather they are a scourge of them. sorry comrade vile critter parts, that's almost as bad as your "if it only shows up in a blog, it didn't happen" infantilism. overwhelmingly the people who work at "think tanks" have doctorates, law degrees, etc., are very educated, know their subject matter and can think, argue and write well. when they deal with information that is verifiable/historical, they have to get their facts straight or they lose credibility with their audience and their supporters. every factual based paper ive read by a think tank group has been well supported by references. alternatively, if its a philosophical based paper, which many of them are, then any dearth of "facts" is secondary to the nature of the work. to put it plainly, your opinion of them is very far from the truth.

bounty44 -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 5:41:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx You may have noticed that I have refuted all of your nonsense with facts and not opinion which is all that you have posted. you don't understand the difference between "opinion" and "argument" do you?

bounty44 -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 5:48:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: mnottertail think tanks are rarely a source of fact, rather they are a scourge of them. So also with "university studies" what an absolutely incredibly asinine thing to say. a large portion of the furtherance of knowledge (that is, the use of old facts to discover new ones) in this country over the past two centuries has occurred as the result of the "university studies" you so ignorantly, dismiss.

thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 6:17:39 PM)
ORIGINAL: bounty44 personally, I think there is some psychological disorder going on...beyond that of normal liberalism. How simple minded of you to accuse me of being a liberal. Just because I find fault with your reasoning and your stated positions does not mean I am a liberal nor were I to agree with one of your positions make me a conservative. What it does show is that I am capable of making decisions based on reality,facts and logic instead of some preconcieved notion of a left right paradigm.

thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 6:19:58 PM)
How many "university studies" have shown some ethnic group to be inferior to some other ethnic group? How many univrsity studies proved the sun revolved around the earth?

thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 6:25:21 PM)
ORIGINAL: bounty44 ORIGINAL: thompsonx You may have noticed that I have refuted all of your nonsense with facts and not opinion which is all that you have posted. you don't understand the difference between "opinion" and "argument" do you? I do but you clearly do not

CreativeDominant -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 6:38:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: bounty44 ORIGINAL: thompsonx You may have noticed that I have refuted all of your nonsense with facts and not opinion which is all that you have posted. you don't understand the difference between "opinion" and "argument" do you? I do but you clearly do not Actually, your article from The Atlantic has a mix of "facts" and "opinions". Just as my cite from the law review does. As Bounty noted though, facts are only facts when you're using them.

thompsonx -> RE: Unreasonable? (12/29/2015 6:51:49 PM)
ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant ORIGINAL: thompsonx You may have noticed that I have refuted all of your nonsense with facts and not opinion which is all that you have posted. Actually, your article from The Atlantic has a mix of "facts" and "opinions". Just as my cite from the law review does. Actually you have your head up your ass again. I did not cite the atlantic to counter your opinions but rather to explain to you why some people seek reparations. If you do not understand the difference perhaps you could get a grown up to walk you through it.

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