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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 3:36:29 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

What regiment did Thomas Jefferson fight in ? Was it a front-line unit ?............I prefer Dr Johnson's quote about patriotism and scoundrels

Well tommy was kinda busy raping his wife's sister and making babies with her...how could he be bothered with risking his life in defense of the cause he espoused?
Dr. johnson was right as you point out.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 3:54:33 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

All of the leadership of the Army of Northen Virginia had served with distiction in the U S Army.

Bowie bergdahl served with distinction in the u.s army but this is what you said about him.

His choice to be there, you ever hear of you made your bed now lay in it?

Just as the officers and men you cite made their bed but you wish to make traitors into heros worthy of praise. That is more than a little two faced don't you think considering that bergdahl has not been convicted of anything while the traitors you wish to praise killed loyal citizens of the usa. Does the fact that those traitors were white supremicist make it all better in the eyes of racists?

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 4:24:16 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: propertyowner247

Many of the men who served under the confederacy were veterans who had served the United States as commissioned officers.

So did bowie bergdahl...who is currently facing a court martial for his actions. If he is convicted would you put up a statue for him as a hero?


The United States government was instrumental and accommodating of slavery many years before the Civil War and slavery was legal in every state.

Had you ever read a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade you would recognize the errors in fact that you have posted.
Rhode Island was the first state to abolish slavery in 1774, followed by:Vermont in 1777Pennsylvania in 1780Massachusetts in 1781New Hampshire in 1783Connecticut in 1784New York in 1799New Jersey in 1804These states never allowed slavery within their borders:California,Illinois,Indiana,Kansas,Maine,Michigan,Ohio,Oregon,Wisconsin.



Even the initial foundations of the White House were laid with slave labor and it's documented in the Library of Congress. Many slaves in the north were not even freed until the Emancipation Proclamation

The emancipation proclamation freed no slaves.


after the war was ended with some even owned by free blacks.

Once again ignorance seems to be your friend. Free blacks owning slaves were an anomoly. All were either those "inhereted" with the louisaiana purchase or those who had purchased their wives and families out of slavery.


Yes, the articles of secession for each Confederate state enumerates slavery as a driving factor, but it was not the only source of contention, just the "straw that broke the camel's back":

It was the only cause...pluuulese get a clue

a state's sovereign right to make it own laws and decide whether or not to be part of the Union was also at stake.


Kinda like "sanctuary cities"

New York had threatened secession even before war to leave the Union.

So had massachusetts...what is your point? Did they take up arms against my country?

These "traitors" as you call them, we men of principle and honor who held a difference of opinion with the political party who was in control at the time.

Wrong again. These punkassmotherfuckers had been in conflict with the constitution since day one.


The party of Lincoln were Republicans who ran on a platform vowing to outlaw slavery if elected.

Since that had been the premis since day one (1789) it is hardly something new. Remember that the slave trade had been outlawed for more than 50 years.


If you'd delve deep into their writings, you would learn that many of them were caught in an ethical dilemma with an allegiance to their mother states.

The constitution is pretty clear as to where ones primary alligience belongs.

Those who merely see the issue of slavery as the only political point of contention at the time, miss a great deal of the underlying principles that led to the war.


Pluuuulese do tell us what those underlying issues were.

Nor do the realize the price that was paid by civilian populations of the southern states during and after the war, as most every city was burned, railways destroyed and women and children left with nothing more than the clothes on their backs.

Start a fight and get your ass kicked then complaine about your sore ass.


Read some of the journals left by the women who suffered thru the raping, pillaging and burning of their homes, burying of their families, and how they were forced to survive on roots and weeds.

That is less than traitors deserve.


Lincoln and the Congress issued a full pardon to every man who had served under the Confederacy better understanding the issues of their time than we ever will.

Just when did the founder of the kkk (nathan bedford forrest) recieve his pardon from lincoln?
Hint: Lincoln had been dead for three years before that piece of shit got his pardon.


If Lincoln had lived, former slaves would have been shipped back to their native lands, but many felt they would be better served in this country. It's amazing and disturbing that with over one million lives lost and 150 years later some people still cannot turn loose of the past yet we wonder why we cannot move forward with mutual respect.

Perhaps because white racists still abound in my country and would seek to return us to those days.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 9:20:31 AM   
propertyowner247


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Status: offline 		thompsonx, it's obvious you think you're such an intellectual on the facts when instead you're nothing more than an angry black hoping to pick an argument with anyone that will buy into opposing your rhetoric on any topic. I'm not one of them! You're nothing more than a ticking time bomb that will inevitably self-destruct with time and frankly, I don't give a damn!!! I refuse to let your hatred consume me!!! Your intentions are apparent by your choice of words and slander. If you want another civil war, then hey, bring it on, but like the men of those memorials, I'll give my life before bowing to the likes of you!! I've got better things to do with my holiday season than to entertain your anger and frustration!! It's high time the majority of people in this country had enough of the bigotry, hatred and arrogance of people who seek to turn us against each other. And believe me, whether you like it or not, the pendulum of time and circumstance will swing back from the far left one way or another, just like it did in the '60's and '70's. Ironic how then you screamed for desegregation, yet now you scream for segregation and control. Your kind will never be contented until they think they have the power to control and subjugate others, just like those of your own kind who sold your ancestors into slavery in the first place. You folks are still a small vocal minority in this country and thanks be to God that I'll be long dead and gone before you can be a majority!

As for Bergdahl, you're comparing a deserter who willingly abandoned his duty post on the battlefield to men who resigned their commissions with the United States military to defend the rights of their states to make their own laws. More of your twisted logic, much like comparing kumquats to grapes. What you're saying in essence is that anyone who takes up arms against our over-reaching, over-zealous federal government is a traitor, but that's not always the case. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, it is the right of the people to rise up against such government to abolish or alter it as may be required. Whites have yet to boycott and march like the radical blacks, but Heaven help you if they ever do!! Instead whites are biding time and waiting for the next election in hopes of bringing back common sense and civility. If your people think they can change things by rioting, looting, killing law enforcement and burning then go ahead and see how fast martial law and armed soldiers are put into place.

And for your information, I was raised not far from New Orleans and my French & Creole ancestors have been there since long before the Revolutionary War. They were dirt poor farmers, hunters and fishermen who never owned slaves, but fought the wars like anyone else to protect what was their way of life. I've spent many weekends in New Orleans and the French Quarter and I'm headed back home now for the holidays to enjoy some time with my family. That being said, you can rip up my comments all that you like because I won't be reading or responding to your hate-filled, racist, and bigoted comments!!! In the meantime, as a native of Louisiana who still owns property and pays taxes there, I'll be signing the petitions against the destruction of these memorials and to demand the resignations of Mayor Mitch Landrieu and the members of the New Orleans City council!!!! I also intend to make a sizable tax-free contribution to the Louisiana Landmark Society to help in their efforts of preservation, along with contacting my state legislators and the newly-elected governor to enact legislation forbidding the further destruction of Confederate memorials on public properties anywhere in the state!!!!!



< Message edited by propertyowner247 -- 12/21/2015 9:47:17 AM >

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 9:25:26 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:


The United States government was instrumental and accommodating of slavery many years before the Civil War and slavery was legal in every state.


Uh, no. See the Dred Scott decision, the state he went to was MN. And we were not the only state where slavery was illegal. Maybe read about the Civil War, and learn something about that. Those of 'us' who went to war against the confederacy were protecting our homes, our ways of life, and our states rights.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/21/2015 9:26:24 AM >

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 10:11:54 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:


The United States government was instrumental and accommodating of slavery many years before the Civil War and slavery was legal in every state.


Uh, no. See the Dred Scott decision, the state he went to was MN. And we were not the only state where slavery was illegal. Maybe read about the Civil War, and learn something about that. Those of 'us' who went to war against the confederacy were protecting our homes, our ways of life, and our states rights.

Because when the south left the Union they threatened to invade the north and force them to accept slavery......not !!!!!!!

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 10:19:23 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Uh, they did in the dred scott decision among others. And you are glossing over the many states that held with the union that had federal troops marching thru them.

It wasnt the northern states that fired on a federal reservation. That was all that was being dealt with at the time, was Ft. Sumter. The south widened that war.

The civil war occurred in the first place because like today, the imbeciles ran around saying 'Lincoln's gonna take your slaves away.' Something that was not true, until forced on him by the war.



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/21/2015 10:21:17 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 2:40:15 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Just an opinion as usual… This is not an easy thread to comment on. It seems simple at first glance but after a little thought it comes more complicated.

On one hand these monuments often represent noble men fighting for their homes and a way of life. But on the other hand they also represent the enslavement of a race of people.

It will be hard for southern whites to ignore their ancestors and family traditions even though their ancestors are on the wrong side of history. I do believe most people today believe in equal rights and even understand blacks distaste for these monuments. But right or wrong their blood is the blood of their forefathers and they will not forget them or dishonor them. The men these monuments represent lived in a different time and most, just as today, were good people even if their upbringing led them to believe in what would be racism today. Remember it took another hundred years before anything close to true equality came to African Americans. It took that long to change a way of thinking in America...and the more change is needed.

Using another extreme example… If there were public sanctioned statues honoring Hitler in the US would they be tolerated in the name of free speech? We must remember that many of the public sanctioned monuments are not meant to remember love ones...but to honor the cause that is reprehensible today. Of course we can and should understand the way African Americans think of their government ,they support with their tax dollars, praising a cause that would have kept them in slavery.

So the solution…

First…as reprehensible as it is private citizens should continue to have the right to display monuments and flags of the Confederacy… It is their right of free speech like it or not.

Second… I think any public sanctioned monument to honor those that lost their lives in the Civil war should continue to be displayed...as long as the inscriptions do not in any way honor the cause of slavery. If they do they should be removed.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/21/2015 2:41:54 PM >

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 3:44:32 PM   
JVoV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just an opinion as usual… This is not an easy thread to comment on. It seems simple at first glance but after a little thought it comes more complicated.

On one hand these monuments often represent noble men fighting for their homes and a way of life. But on the other hand they also represent the enslavement of a race of people.

It will be hard for southern whites to ignore their ancestors and family traditions even though their ancestors are on the wrong side of history. I do believe most people today believe in equal rights and even understand blacks distaste for these monuments. But right or wrong their blood is the blood of their forefathers and they will not forget them or dishonor them. The men these monuments represent lived in a different time and most, just as today, were good people even if their upbringing led them to believe in what would be racism today. Remember it took another hundred years before anything close to true equality came to African Americans. It took that long to change a way of thinking in America...and the more change is needed.

Using another extreme example… If there were public sanctioned statues honoring Hitler in the US would they be tolerated in the name of free speech? We must remember that many of the public sanctioned monuments are not meant to remember love ones...but to honor the cause that is reprehensible today. Of course we can and should understand the way African Americans think of their government ,they support with their tax dollars, praising a cause that would have kept them in slavery.

So the solution…

First…as reprehensible as it is private citizens should continue to have the right to display monuments and flags of the Confederacy… It is their right of free speech like it or not.

Second… I think any public sanctioned monument to honor those that lost their lives in the Civil war should continue to be displayed...as long as the inscriptions do not in any way honor the cause of slavery. If they do they should be removed.

Butch


Would we be able to discuss the horrors of WW2 without mentioning Hitler? Could we learn anything about protecting ourselves and our country from the same fate, if we ignore what's to be learned from him?

Can we look at monuments of men and understand that they fought for their homes and their beliefs without condemning them, or blaming them for the mistakes we make today?

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 4:16:42 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I agree except where the monuments honor the ideals of the Confederacy...and some most certainly do. I do not believe anyone is saying forget history...Hitler is most certainly remembered without monuments to his accomplishments and ideals.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/21/2015 4:18:54 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 4:41:07 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Uh, they did in the dred scott decision among others. And you are glossing over the many states that held with the union that had federal troops marching thru them.

It wasnt the northern states that fired on a federal reservation. That was all that was being dealt with at the time, was Ft. Sumter. The south widened that war.

The civil war occurred in the first place because like today, the imbeciles ran around saying 'Lincoln's gonna take your slaves away.' Something that was not true, until forced on him by the war.



A Federal troops marching through states does not amount to southern agression. Freeing the slaves was not forced on Lincoln by the war, it gave him the chance to do what he couldn't without the war. Sumptner was attacked in violation of orders from the southern high command. Dred Scott was a stupid decision but it hardly constituted an invasion by the south.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 4:46:13 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I agree except where the monuments honor the ideals of the Confederacy...and some most certainly do. I do not believe anyone is saying forget history...Hitler is most certainly remembered without monuments to his accomplishments and ideals.

Butch

You forget that other than slavery the ideals of the south were superior to those of the north and many who fought for the south personally opposed slavery.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 6:05:51 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: propertyowner247

thompsonx, it's obvious you think you're such an intellectual on the facts

The facts are that you do not have a clue what you are talking about.

when instead you're nothing more than an angry black hoping to pick an argument with anyone that will buy into opposing your rhetoric on any topic.

[bI been passin' for white for more than 70 years.

I'm not one of them!

You are just an ignorant fool and nothing more.

You're nothing more than a ticking time bomb that will inevitably self-destruct with time and frankly, I don't give a damn!!!

Wow ...quoting rhett butler?

I refuse to let your hatred consume me!!! Your intentions are apparent by your choice of words and slander.

Slander is spoken this is the written word...your ignorance shines out of your asshole.


If you want another civil war, then hey, bring it on, but like the men of those memorials, I'll give my life before bowing to the likes of you!!

Maybe you could get a grown up to read what I posted. You clearly do not understand what I wrote.

I've got better things to do with my holiday season than to entertain your anger and frustration!!

Dude...get a grip. I have no anger. I am just stating facts.


It's high time the majority of people in this country had enough of the bigotry, hatred and arrogance of people who seek to turn us against each other.

Just pointing out the monuments to the punkassmotherfuckers who committed treason need to be broken up for rip-rap.

And believe me, whether you like it or not, the pendulum of time and circumstance will swing back from the far left one way or another, just like it did in the '60's and '70's.

You have no clue what the far left is?


Ironic how then you screamed for desegregation, yet now you scream for segregation and control.

Where have I called for segregation?


As for Bergdahl, you're comparing a deserter

In my country a man is innocent till proved guilty...why do you have a problem with that?

who willingly abandoned his duty post on the battlefield to men who resigned their commissions with the United States military

Officers in the usa military serve at the pleasure of the president. They may not desert which is what those punkassmotherfuckers did.


to defend the rights of their states to make their own laws.

Had you ever read a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade you would know better.

More of your twisted logic, much like comparing kumquats to grapes. What you're saying in essence is that anyone who takes up arms against our over-reaching, over-zealous federal government is a traitor,

That is right...punkassmotherfucking treasonous traitors


but that's not always the case. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, it is the right of the people to rise up against such government to abolish or alter it as may be required.

Dream on sweetie.

Whites have yet to boycott and march like the radical blacks,

The constitution guarantees all amerikans those rights...why does that bother you?

but Heaven help you if they ever do!!

The kkk does it all the time

Instead whites are biding time and waiting for the next election in hopes of bringing back common sense and civility. If your people think they can change things by rioting, looting, killing law enforcement and burning then go ahead and see how fast martial law and armed soldiers are put into place.

It worked for the founders

And for your information, I was raised not far from New Orleans and my French & Creole ancestors


Cre·ole
/ˈkrēˌōl/
noun: Creole; plural noun: Creoles; noun: creole; plural noun: creoles
1. a person of mixed European and black descent, especially in the Caribbean.







< Message edited by thompsonx -- 12/21/2015 6:06:17 PM >

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 6:07:23 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

You forget that other than slavery the ideals of the south were superior to those of the north and many who fought for the south personally opposed slavery.

What a crock of shit

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 6:19:53 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		I have a question.................how would the freed slaves have been sent back to 'their native lands' ? Nobody, not even they themselves knew where they came from and having had a quick look at a map, I would say Africa is a pretty big place. And if the slave trade had been outlawed for 50 years, those that were freed, should theoretically, have been well over 50 years old and would probably have a little trouble remembering much about their birthplace.

They could have been sent to Liberia but to most, that would have been as strange as America was to a freshly imported slave

Wasn't there a plan to send them to South America someplace ?

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 6:36:03 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Bama what exclusive ideals in the Confederacy were superior to those of the north.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 6:49:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

I have a question.................how would the freed slaves have been sent back to 'their native lands' ? Nobody, not even they themselves knew where they came from and having had a quick look at a map, I would say Africa is a pretty big place. And if the slave trade had been outlawed for 50 years, those that were freed, should theoretically, have been well over 50 years old and would probably have a little trouble remembering much about their birthplace.

They could have been sent to Liberia but to most, that would have been as strange as America was to a freshly imported slave

Wasn't there a plan to send them to South America someplace ?

The U S bought a country to ship them to. Ever hear of Liberia? The capital is Monroeville. It was Lincoln's plan to ship the free slaves there. In January of 1863 called black leaders to the White House and berated them for oppossing his plan to do exactly that. He (and many other abolitionists) didn't care where they came from they just didn't want them here. Also as far as they were concerned Africa was Africa.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 6:56:58 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama what exclusive ideals in the Confederacy were superior to those of the north.

Butch

I didn't say exclusive.
As I pointed out about the abolitionist plan to ship them back to africa.
The northerners were more prone to hypocracy.
Honor meant something more to southerners than to northerners.
The south may have owned slaves but the north sacrificed them to get revenge on the south, setting them up as fallguys for northerners stealing what little the south still had, then hanging them out to dry when "reconstruction" ended.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 7:08:07 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

As I pointed out about the abolitionist plan to ship them back to africa.


And what was the superior ideal of the South to the above?

quote:

The northerners were more prone to hypocracy.


Bama you really must be kidding.

quote:

Honor meant something more to southerners than to northerners.


Bull... honor is not a southern superior ideal

quote:

The south may have owned slaves but the north sacrificed them to get revenge on the south, setting them up as fallguys for northerners stealing what little the south still had, then hanging them out to dry when "reconstruction" ended.


The south may have owned Slaves BUT... you still believe this is a superior ideal?

Weak my friend very weak.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 7:16:12 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3670
Joined: 3/9/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

I have a question.................how would the freed slaves have been sent back to 'their native lands' ? Nobody, not even they themselves knew where they came from and having had a quick look at a map, I would say Africa is a pretty big place. And if the slave trade had been outlawed for 50 years, those that were freed, should theoretically, have been well over 50 years old and would probably have a little trouble remembering much about their birthplace.

They could have been sent to Liberia but to most, that would have been as strange as America was to a freshly imported slave

Wasn't there a plan to send them to South America someplace ?


Nobody gave a damn, I think? Just where ever the boat landed. It took a long time to think of them as people instead of property. And the plans were as callous as setting a dog free on a back road because your new lover is allergic.

There was no plan to integrate freed slaves into society. No plan to create opportunities for them, or to protect their basic human rights, much less Constitutional ones.

The North didn't care about anything but punishing the South. And the South remained devastated and powerless for quite some time. Which of course directly fueled racism in the region.

One thing interesting to note is that the majority of schools named after Confederate leaders were named so as a political statement by school boards, in protest of desegregation. This serves as continued unjust punishment for children of color today.

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