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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 7:16:18 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

I have a question.................how would the freed slaves have been sent back to 'their native lands' ? Nobody, not even they themselves knew where they came from and having had a quick look at a map, I would say Africa is a pretty big place. And if the slave trade had been outlawed for 50 years, those that were freed, should theoretically, have been well over 50 years old and would probably have a little trouble remembering much about their birthplace.

The slave trade was continuous from the early 1600's. While the slave trade had been illegal by the time of the civil war it was still going on clandestenly.

They could have been sent to Liberia but to most, that would have been as strange as America was to a freshly imported slave.

Needless to say many black leaders felt that way also.

Wasn't there a plan to send them to South America someplace ?

Not that I know of.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 7:30:55 PM   
thompsonx


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I didn't say exclusive.
As I pointed out about the abolitionist plan to ship them back to africa.

Actually it was slave owners and the acs who wanted to do this. The slave owners felt that free blacks were an incentive for slaves to seek freedom also.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Colonization_Society

The northerners were more prone to hypocracy.

That is just so much horseshit. Hypocracy knows nothing of geography.


Honor meant something more to southerners than to northerners.

Do you just open your mouth to change feet?


The south may have owned slaves but the north sacrificed them to get revenge on the south, setting them up as fallguys for northerners stealing what little the south still had, then hanging them out to dry when "reconstruction" ended.

When does the pity party start?

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 7:47:44 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		Thanks for that. Even at school, when I read that bit about sending them to Liberia, I figured they would be worse off there than they would have been in the South. It just didn't make sense but then when has much that politicians propose EVER made sense ?

I just had it at the back of my mind that Lincoln or one of his cabinet, or some nutter about that time, came up with a proposal to send them to some South American country. I don't think it ever made it past the proposal stage. I am trying to imagine how the locals of said country would have felt about gods know how many refugees being suddenly dropped on their doorstep . Sounds almost like Europe today *smile*

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 7:59:59 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		Uh.......the capital of Liberia is Monrovia.................go to the nearest wharves and you are sure to see a ship with that on the stern. Registering unseaworthy ships is one of their main industries

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 8:32:16 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Uh.......the capital of Liberia is Monrovia.................go to the nearest wharves and you are sure to see a ship with that on the stern. Registering unseaworthy ships is one of their main industries

Your right, Monrovia not Monroevile, still named after the president.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 8:46:32 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		yep....................it's a name that a lot of seamen learned to loathe .

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 10:54:30 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

yep....................it's a name that a lot of seamen learned to loathe .

Morovia? Got me there.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/21/2015 11:51:54 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		Monrovia registers ships that should never be allowed to put to sea, with untrained crews, uncertificated officers and unseaworthy vessels and little or no insurance. That is basically their main industry.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 2:54:28 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Monrovia registers ships that should never be allowed to put to sea, with untrained crews, uncertificated officers and unseaworthy vessels and little or no insurance. That is basically their main industry.

Haven't been onboard a Monrovian registered ship since the late 60's but I gotta agree with your assessment on the vessels and crews.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 3:09:49 AM   
thompsonx


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Thanks for that. Even at school, when I read that bit about sending them to Liberia, I figured they would be worse off there than they would have been in the South. It just didn't make sense but then when has much that politicians propose EVER made sense ?

I just had it at the back of my mind that Lincoln or one of his cabinet, or some nutter about that time, came up with a proposal to send them to some South American country. I don't think it ever made it past the proposal stage. I am trying to imagine how the locals of said country would have felt about gods know how many refugees being suddenly dropped on their doorstep . Sounds almost like Europe today *smile*


This was not the brain child of politicians but rather of slave owners, who were concerned that free blacks were an incentive for slaves to revolt and seek freedom and some(not all) abolitionist who were against slvery but were not in favor of blacks being integrated into white society. They put a gun to the head of the king of liberia and "bought" some land to resettle the free blacks in africa.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 3:35:38 AM   
thompsonx


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Because when the south left the Union they threatened to invade the north and force them to accept slavery......not !!!!!!!

The south invaded maryland,kentucky and pennsylvania did they not?

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 3:50:33 AM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD

I didn't say exclusive.
As I pointed out about the abolitionist plan to ship them back to africa.

Which is factually untrue. It was slave owners and "some" abolitionist who wanted to ship free blacks back to africa.


The northerners were more prone to hypocracy.
Honor meant something more to southerners than to northerners.

Honor is a concept unkonwn to the southern scum who started that war.
An officer in the amerikan military swears an oath to protect and defend the constitution. These treasonous pigs broke thier solemn oath. These treasonous pigs were too phoquing lazy to work for a living and needed slaves to make up for their laziness.
Lee was a slave owner and refused to free his slaves until the law required it. Lee was not the least bit shy about applying the whip to the humans he owned. We have his written record of how he hired someone with some muscle to apply the whip because he feared his arm was not strong enough to lay the lash on firmly enough. He had both men and women lashed while he stood by and encouraged his constable to "put his back into it"


The south may have owned slaves but the north sacrificed them to get revenge on the south,

Revenge???Everyone of those punkassmotherfucking pigs should have been hanged...instead we have to look at the monuments to that lowlife scum.

setting them up as fallguys for northerners stealing what little the south still had, then hanging them out to dry when "reconstruction" ended.

You act as if there was no need for reconstruction?


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 12/22/2015 3:53:58 AM >

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 1:03:11 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html

There have been various oaths of office before and following the Civil War.

http://www.history.navy.mil//research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/g/going-south-u-s-navy-officer-resignations-dismissals-on-the-eve-of-the-civil-war.html

Civil War Naval Resignations/dismissals on the eve of the civil war

quote:

http://www.history.army.mil/books/AMH-V1/ch09.htm

The roster of the Regular Army was altered considerably by Davis’ action in creating the Confederate Army. Of the 1,080 in the active officer corps, 286 resigned or were dismissed and entered the Confederate service. (Conversely, only 26 enlisted men are known to have violated their oaths.) West Point graduates on the active list numbered 824; of these, 184 were among the officers who turned their backs on the United States and offered their swords to the Confederacy. Of the 900 graduates then in civil life, 114 returned to the Union Army and 99 others sought Southern commissions. General in Chief Winfield Scott and Col. George H. Thomas of Virginia were among the few prominent Southerners who fought for the Union. More serious than their numbers, however, was the high caliber of the officers who joined the Confederacy; many were regimental commanders, and three had commanded at departmental level.



Looks like out of all the officers/enlisted in the South during the Civil War we are discussing 286 officers, 26 enlisted and 99 previous officers in civil life that fought for the south. if they resigned or were stricken from the roles, then it is debatable whether or not they were traitors to that oath.

quote:

“No free government was ever founded, or ever preserved its liberty, without uniting the characters of the citizen and soldier in those destined for the defense of the state…such area well-regulated militia, composed of the freeholders, citizen and husbandman, who take up arms to preserve their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen.” – Richard Henry Lee, State Gazette (Charleston), September 8, 1788


I think this quote by Lee, Former lots of things including signer of the Declaration of Independence, President of the Congress, President Pro Teme of the 2nd Congress says a lot about states (which can be debated as to whether he was refering to the Federal or Individual State) and their freedoms.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 3:03:07 PM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		What is your point? All the oaths declare allegienc to the constitution and the usa.
Where did any of these punkassmotherfuckers declare an oath to any state?
Richard henry lee sent george washington off to start the french and indian war when he was govonor general of virginia. He is just another punk politician trying to make a few bux.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 3:04:24 PM   
thompsonx


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What is your point? All the oaths declare allegience to the constitution and the usa.
Where did any of these punkassmotherfuckers declare an oath to any state?
Richard henry lee sent george washington off to start the french and indian war when he was govonor general of virginia. He is just another punk politician trying to make a few bux.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 3:10:59 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		KD.................back in the late 60's Monrovia was still registering Liberty ships from WW 2. I think they only stayed in one piece because the cockroaches and rats were holding hands

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 3:55:36 PM   
thompsonx


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KD.................back in the late 60's Monrovia was still registering Liberty ships from WW 2. I think they only stayed in one piece because the cockroaches and rats were holding hands

Either that or the surface tension of the rust.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/22/2015 3:57:38 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

KD.................back in the late 60's Monrovia was still registering Liberty ships from WW 2. I think they only stayed in one piece because the cockroaches and rats were holding hands

The port I was in can still only handle break bulk ships like the liberty and victory ships. LOL The largest ship I ever saw there in 30 months was the USS Norfolk (DL-1), a destroyer leader (no guided missles) set on an old light cruiser hull.

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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/23/2015 9:02:21 PM   
thompsonx


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Just an opinion as usual… This is not an easy thread to comment on. It seems simple at first glance but after a little thought it comes more complicated.

Not acomplicated at all. Should we put up a monument to benidict arnold???He served with distinction..was a better commander than washington???

On one hand these monuments often represent noble men fighting for their homes and a way of life.

They were a bunch of treasonous pigs fighting to preserve slavery.

But on the other hand they also represent the enslavement of a race of people.

It will be hard for southern whites to ignore their ancestors and family traditions even though their ancestors are on the wrong side of history. I do believe most people today believe in equal rights


Donald the dumb does not believe in equal riaghts.

and even understand blacks distaste for these monuments. But right or wrong their blood is the blood of their forefathers and they will not forget them or dishonor them.

I am sure that many germans feel the same way about hitler.


The men these monuments represent lived in a different time and most, just as today, were good people even if their upbringing led them to believe in what would be racism today.

It was racism then just as it is now.


Remember it took another hundred years before anything close to true equality came to African Americans.


Bullshit it still has not happened.



http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/It took that long to change a way of thinking in America...and the more change is needed.

Using another extreme example… If there were public sanctioned statues honoring Hitler in the US would they be tolerated in the name of free speech? We must remember that many of the public sanctioned monuments are not meant to remember love ones...but to honor the cause that is reprehensible today.

It was reprehensible then also.


Of course we can and should understand the way African Americans think of their government ,they support with their tax dollars, praising a cause that would have kept them in slavery.

So the solution…

First…as reprehensible as it is private citizens should continue to have the right to display monuments and flags of the Confederacy… It is their right of free speech like it or not.

Sedition is not a constitutional right. Get a grip dude...You might want to look up "criminal syndicalism"

Second… I think any public sanctioned monument to honor those that lost their lives in the Civil war should continue to be displayed...as long as the inscriptions do not in any way honor the cause of slavery. If they do they should be removed.

So a statue of hitler&co. would be kewel as long as it did not praise them???


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RE: NOLA Confederate Monument Lawsuit - 12/23/2015 9:16:09 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		Just an aside but I remember reading recently that there were quite a number of blacks who actually fought FOR the Confederacy. In uniform. One of Forrest's slaves actually rode with him and not just as a body servant either. He carried weapons and apparently knew how to use them very well. Maybe somebody should ask their families what THEY think of the monuments and which should remain and which pulled down ?

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