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The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 6:12:36 AM   
KenDckey


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SF is being sued to change it's bail system. What do you think of our current bail system?

I don't have a real opinion one way or the other. I can't think of a better system, but at the same time I can see some issues being brought up as being unfair.
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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 7:54:04 AM   
MrRodgers


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Status: offline 		I guess it depends on whether or not one...has it. (bail) There are many places where if you don't have it, you sit in jail without trial and all too often for more than a year. NY state is going through their respective committees now, in search of clearing a very large and dismal backlog.

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 8:08:07 AM   
LadyConstanze


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Status: offline 		I was under the impression that if bail is 5K you can pay 1K, not sure if that is right as I'm a bit boring and the only times I was arrested was once in South America where with some friends we were charged for "Walking the wrong way into a one way street" and we could actually negotiate the fine, when we handed it over, the 3 cops asked if we might have it smaller, though that was ages ago, and once when I missed a few court dates as a witness but had sent them a fax and a registered letter that I will be out of the country and asked them to contact me at the company headquarters, they filed the letter and forgot about it, promptly kept on sending stuff to the home address (where I wasn't), so when I came back the cops showed up one morning really early, dragged me to court, oddly enough the accused had missed all court dates but they didn't drag him in, judge asked me why I didn't show up, I pointed out my fax and registered letter, he found them at the back of my file and looked a bit sheepish...

I was always under the impression that they set bail and what you actually pay is not the whole amount?

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 8:08:29 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 8:45:40 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I was under the impression that if bail is 5K you can pay 1K, not sure if that is right as I'm a bit boring and the only times I was arrested was once in South America where with some friends we were charged for "Walking the wrong way into a one way street" and we could actually negotiate the fine, when we handed it over, the 3 cops asked if we might have it smaller, though that was ages ago, and once when I missed a few court dates as a witness but had sent them a fax and a registered letter that I will be out of the country and asked them to contact me at the company headquarters, they filed the letter and forgot about it, promptly kept on sending stuff to the home address (where I wasn't), so when I came back the cops showed up one morning really early, dragged me to court, oddly enough the accused had missed all court dates but they didn't drag him in, judge asked me why I didn't show up, I pointed out my fax and registered letter, he found them at the back of my file and looked a bit sheepish...

I was always under the impression that they set bail and what you actually pay is not the whole amount?

You can pay 10% but have to have collateral for the rest.

_____________________________

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 9:09:25 AM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


You can pay 10% but have to have collateral for the rest.



I just had a look at the links, seems a bit shitty if innocent people plead guilty because they can't afford bail or the bail bonds they could never repay and somebody else just writes a cheque.

Seriously, I often think the system is quite rigged, I work in PR, as in damage control for reputations, as stupid as it sounds, I insisted on a morality clause, I seriously don't give a shit if people do stupid shit, but I refuse to help anybody out who's crossing a line (in my case minors, and yes there were cases where some rich guy knew she was underage), but a lot of things where a poor person would end up in jail is often swept under the carpet with flimsy excuses and generous "donations" to a charity. It seems the system is a bit rigged against people who are struggling anyway.

Call me a hopeless idealist, I'm aware that justice often depends on the lawyer you can afford, or if you can pay off somebody, but if it means people pleading guilty for something they haven't done to avoid rotting in jail, that's crossing a line I'm just not very comfy with.

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 1:14:05 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BANNING_BAIL_BONDS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

SF is being sued to change it's bail system. What do you think of our current bail system?

I don't have a real opinion one way or the other. I can't think of a better system, but at the same time I can see some issues being brought up as being unfair.

If you are poor (& not white), it sucks big time.. people can be thrown in jail for quite minor offenses, and if they dont have the money to get bailed out they can lose EVERYTHING.. their job.. their home.. their kids and family.. is it any wonder that some become so depressed that they commit suicide in jail?

You can think of a better system? really??? how about not having to come up with bail? it costs taxpayers lotsa money to keep them there too, ya know..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 12/27/2015 1:15:41 PM >

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 5:37:38 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		IIRC, in most of the US if you can't make bail they got a limited number of days to bring you to trial. I thought Ohio was 25, I looked quick on the web and some are like 30 or something.

It is alot longer if you make bail. Also, if in jail or out, you have to sign a waiver of time. I have signed several but I was out and had a lawyer who had them for lunch.

T^T

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 5:48:00 PM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		Our legal system moves much too slowly for minor offenses.

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 9:21:13 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I guess it depends on whether or not one...has it. (bail) There are many places where if you don't have it, you sit in jail without trial and all too often for more than a year. NY state is going through their respective committees now, in search of clearing a very large and dismal backlog.


Do you have a cite for the more than a year?

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 10:01:36 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 10:09:32 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3114817/Man-spent-three-years-teenage-life-jail-without-charged-dead-suicide.html






Ex-lawyer jailed 14 months, but not charged with a crime

The technical term is "coercive confinement" -- jail-time until a person follows a judge's order.

"He's probably done more time than most burglars, robbers and dope dealers," says Sterling Norris of the public-interest group Judicial Watch.

Norris says Fine's confinement has gone on too long.

Norris won a case in 2008 that found county payments to judges unconstitutional. The California Legislature swiftly passed a bill that enabled counties to continue paying the extra benefits.

"I think it's a lack of judicial integrity to say enough is enough," Norris says. "We've got a man, 70-year-old attorney, in jail for over a year on coercive confinement and that is way beyond the pale. No matter what else he may have done, that is improper."

Steve Whitmore, a spokesman for Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, calls the length of Fine's contempt confinement an "anomaly."

Fine's jail cell could be used for a more violent offender, Whitmore added. In fact, Los Angeles County's jails have in recent months released hundreds of inmates before their terms were up due to budget constraints.

Fine took his pencil-and-paper fight from solitary confinement to the U.S Supreme Court, which ruled Monday it would not hear the case. The court offered no explanation.

what would anyone expect from our british based legal system affectionately known as the just-us club http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/05/24/jailed.lawyer.richard.fine/

its all a for profit racket

due process guarantees the right to remedy, he gets none just like the poor kid in your link. the legal system is a farce.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 12/27/2015 10:11:53 PM >

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/27/2015 10:15:06 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

IIRC, in most of the US if you can't make bail they got a limited number of days to bring you to trial. I thought Ohio was 25, I looked quick on the web and some are like 30 or something.

It is alot longer if you make bail. Also, if in jail or out, you have to sign a waiver of time. I have signed several but I was out and had a lawyer who had them for lunch.

T^T



they play the numbers game.

they dont give a fuck because of all the profits they make from people who do not get a lawyer or understand their rights. They dont give a fuck if they have a run of bad luck either because the tax payer foots the bill anyway. more reform needed in the shit hole legal system

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/28/2015 12:39:12 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		Hell they had a guy somewhere they simply forgot about and had no food for three days. He won a multimillion dollar lawsuit against them.

They simply don't give a shit and neither do I. They ever lock me up it will be the last time. And I will cost them more money than ten motherfuckers.

T^T

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/28/2015 1:25:23 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

IIRC, in most of the US if you can't make bail they got a limited number of days to bring you to trial. I thought Ohio was 25, I looked quick on the web and some are like 30 or something.

It is alot longer if you make bail. Also, if in jail or out, you have to sign a waiver of time. I have signed several but I was out and had a lawyer who had them for lunch.

T^T

Well there is no legally set time one is let out on OR. (own recognizance) In some states, if you cannot raise bail, you can spend a year or more in jail before a trial. That's what motivates these plea deals...they want to go home.

Nearly 50,000 defendants each year are put behind bars after their first court hearing pending trial. Most spend days or weeks in jail. Some, however, can spend months or more than a year on Rikers Island all because they can’t afford to make bail. And that costs taxpayers a lot of money.

“It is beyond my imagination why we would let a system like this continue to exist in New York, where you are draining our resources and treating people unfairly, with no humanity and with no purpose,” said Chief Judge Jonathan Lippman, the man who oversees the state court system.

HERE

Some states do not even allow private bail bonding. Massachusetts, Maine, Oregon, Illinois, Kentucky, Nebraska, Wisconsin, and Washington, D.C.

HERE

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 12/28/2015 1:35:04 AM >

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/28/2015 6:37:00 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		If you look at it from an economic point of view, somebody who pleads guilty just because they can't afford bail or would lose everything if they'd be in jail, they will end up with a previous conviction, a lot harder to find a job if you have that on your record (and I assume you have to disclose it in most jobs).

No job, a family to feed, people do desperate things if they are desperate, it's a good method of pushing people into criminal activities, which ends up costing everybody, apart from the fact that jails are the best "educational grounds" to learn how to commit a lot of crimes. Years ago I had a friend who stepped in when a guy really stepped over the mark and kept on groping a girl who was terrified, it ended up with them exchanging punches, police came, the other guy was more bruised, so he was the victim, the girl testified that our friend just tried to stop the guy from harassing her, that the other guy threw the first punch, didn't matter, other guy was more bruised, he ended up doing 3 months, luckily he didn't lose his job, but he came out and said if he ever had a question about how to hotwire cars, break into houses, etc., all answered.

I think if it comes to little stuff, the system tends to create more problems than it solves, in a lot of cases, you know kids just being stupid and such, community service might be a much better option than jail time, it might actually teach them a lesson without teaching them how to be a successful career criminal, and it might not mess up their future with having a criminal record.

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/28/2015 7:21:50 AM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

IIRC, in most of the US if you can't make bail they got a limited number of days to bring you to trial. I thought Ohio was 25, I looked quick on the web and some are like 30 or something.

It is alot longer if you make bail. Also, if in jail or out, you have to sign a waiver of time. I have signed several but I was out and had a lawyer who had them for lunch.

You are not required to wave time. If you do not wave time you must be brought to tiral within the alloted time or set free.


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 12/28/2015 7:24:53 AM >

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/28/2015 10:37:27 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

IIRC, in most of the US if you can't make bail they got a limited number of days to bring you to trial. I thought Ohio was 25, I looked quick on the web and some are like 30 or something.

It is alot longer if you make bail. Also, if in jail or out, you have to sign a waiver of time. I have signed several but I was out and had a lawyer who had them for lunch.

T^T

oh well lucky for those in Ohio then.. but 25 days, 30 days or whatever.. you still have lost your job, you have lost your home, you have lost your family..

And in some states people on probation have to PAY to see their probation officer (I have heard $80/visit).. if you dont have the money to pay him/her so you can see him/her then you go back to jail.. so desperate people will commit another crime to get the money to avoid going back to jail (John Oliver has a youtube vid on the shite that goes on in some places)..

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RE: The US Bail System - 12/28/2015 2:21:21 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
You can think of a better system? really??? how about not having to come up with bail? it costs taxpayers lotsa money to keep them there too, ya know..


Do you understand what bail is for?


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RE: The US Bail System - 12/28/2015 4:17:30 PM   
Phydeaux


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Status: offline 		An idiosyncratic, anecdote about a single case is not evidence of the assertion that if you are denied bail you will often stay in jail for over a year before going to court.

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