RE: Black Lies Matter

RE: Black Lies Matter (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/1/2016 8:47:10 PM)
According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks.[34][35][36] If you are committing murders at 8 times the rate of whites, perhaps you shouldn't be surprised to be the victim of police gunfire at 7 times the rate?

Greta75 -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/1/2016 8:48:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Are you saying that anything a white person says to help blacks would be dismissed because of black racism? From my observation and personal conversation with American black people, that seems to be my conclusion. But I wouldn't say it's racism, more like, grievances that has been passed down. I mean, if you are upset at a whole set of other group of people for something that happened in the past, it's hard to take anything they say seriously or into consideration isn't it? I'm yellow, so I can say the exact same thing a white person says and the effect is different to a black person. You know, recently, Japan and Korea has reached a new peace about all the comfort women Japanese people have enslaved. Japan have deeply apologise and acknowledge the great wrong they did, and agreed to pay a sum of money to compensate them, while Korea agrees to stop bringing up comfort women crimes over and over again, and hold it above their heads. I think that is a good way to move on. Something similar needs to happen in the US. Something very firm like, "We admit we fuck up in the past, and here are the compensation to those who suffered, and this is what we will do to help their descendants live better lives with the help of the black community to identify best course of action, and in return, let's all move on and work together!" And Japan PM said Japan will never go into another war again. And China President says 2016 goal is to eliminate poverty and start reaching out to those suffering in rural areas and give targeted help. Black Lives Matters seems like a pointless and negative movement considering what needs to happen the most is to keep black youths away from crime and get them interested in positive things. Sports and studies. And screaming Black Lives Matter constantly is not productive in making sure black lives will matter! Going around encouraging Black youths to upgrade themselves, invest time in education, sports or music, whatever that is more productive, a movement like that, would make black lives matter so much more! The better contributors people are to society on positive things, the more important they will be. On top of that, to make any real changes, more black people needs to be governors, senators. That's the way to real change.

Phydeaux -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/1/2016 9:11:58 PM)
Black people are not shooting each other at these alarming rates in Chicago and other urban areas because of our gun laws or our drug laws or a criminal justice system that has it in for them. The problem is primarily cultural — self-destructive behaviors and attitudes all too common among the black underclass. The problem is black criminal behavior, which is one manifestation of a black pathology that ultimately stems from the breakdown of the black family. Liberals want to talk about what others should do for blacks instead of what blacks should do for themselves. But if we don’t acknowledge the cultural barriers to black progress, how can we address them? How can you even begin to fix something that almost no one wants to talk about honestly? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/21/family-secret-what-the-left-wont-tell-you-about-bl/

BamaD -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/1/2016 9:32:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Are you saying that anything a white person says to help blacks would be dismissed because of black racism? From my observation and personal conversation with American black people, that seems to be my conclusion. But I wouldn't say it's racism, more like, grievances that has been passed down. I mean, if you are upset at a whole set of other group of people for something that happened in the past, it's hard to take anything they say seriously or into consideration isn't it? I'm yellow, so I can say the exact same thing a white person says and the effect is different to a black person. You know, recently, Japan and Korea has reached a new peace about all the comfort women Japanese people have enslaved. Japan have deeply apologise and acknowledge the great wrong they did, and agreed to pay a sum of money to compensate them, while Korea agrees to stop bringing up comfort women crimes over and over again, and hold it above their heads. I think that is a good way to move on. Something similar needs to happen in the US. Something very firm like, "We admit we fuck up in the past, and here are the compensation to those who suffered, and this is what we will do to help their descendants live better lives with the help of the black community to identify best course of action, and in return, let's all move on and work together!" And Japan PM said Japan will never go into another war again. And China President says 2016 goal is to eliminate poverty and start reaching out to those suffering in rural areas and give targeted help. Black Lives Matters seems like a pointless and negative movement considering what needs to happen the most is to keep black youths away from crime and get them interested in positive things. Sports and studies. And screaming Black Lives Matter constantly is not productive in making sure black lives will matter! Going around encouraging Black youths to upgrade themselves, invest time in education, sports or music, whatever that is more productive, a movement like that, would make black lives matter so much more! The better contributors people are to society on positive things, the more important they will be. On top of that, to make any real changes, more black people needs to be governors, senators. That's the way to real change. It is still a cultural bias. We have said that slavery was wrong, we have corrected virtually all of the problems. We have enacted many programs to help blacks. And we can't even get an admission that white people have volutarily done one thing for blacks, the myth, perpetrated by many whites is that reforms have only come because they were forced on us by blacks. An even worse myth is to deny that anything has ever been done to help blacks. To read some of the posters on here you would think that Jim Crow was still in force, that there were still daily lynchings, and that cops just look for an excuse to kill black people. You would think that we live, not in 40's America but in 40's South Africa.

kdsub -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/1/2016 9:33:16 PM)
Don't you think it possible that the situation in many inner cities has nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism? Couldn't it be past racism and economic hardship that has broken apart African American families. It is hard enough for white Americans today with the need of two working parents let alone African Americans parents that have trouble finding one job between them...and service jobs at that. Overall whites can handle an economic downturn better than blacks because of their average wealth in comparison. It may not be racism today that is holding back blacks in the inner city but past racism has made it difficult for black families to acquire family wealth, and a good education. I can see where hopelessness and anger can contribute to crime in the inner cities. And...I think it makes little difference to blacks if the racism was in the past or today it is having the same effect on their lives either way. We have had a good dose of both parties leading us to our economic situation today and racism does not follow party lines... Why must you and others like you always try to blame one opposing political party for all the problems in America. Not all problems are caused by Democrats or Republicans but it will take both working together to solve this one. Butch

Phydeaux -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/1/2016 10:04:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Don't you think it possible that the situation in many inner cities has nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism? Couldn't it be past racism and economic hardship that has broken apart African American families. No. The facts are that black immigrant income rapidly exceeds native black, a result that is impossible to ascribe to racism.

kdsub -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/1/2016 10:09:29 PM)
To me your statement makes little sense....immigrants do not have the same history

LadyConstanze -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 4:46:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD It is still a cultural bias. We have said that slavery was wrong, we have corrected virtually all of the problems. We have enacted many programs to help blacks. And we can't even get an admission that white people have volutarily done one thing for blacks, the myth, perpetrated by many whites is that reforms have only come because they were forced on us by blacks. An even worse myth is to deny that anything has ever been done to help blacks. To read some of the posters on here you would think that Jim Crow was still in force, that there were still daily lynchings, and that cops just look for an excuse to kill black people. You would think that we live, not in 40's America but in 40's South Africa. On the other hand, if you do look at it realistically, there is a rather sharp divide of income, so kids growing up dirt poor without parents who are able to encourage them to do well, parents who might not be able to drive them to schools or pay for cars to get to schools, isn't able to help you with your homework, she might be living from welfare or she might be working 2 minimum wage jobs to make ends meet, she's not going to have much time to supervise and raise her children, it doesn't bode well for the kids. Then think they are growing up in a cheap and rather undesireable area where crime is rife, due to not having a good education they will only be able to get anything else but minimum wage jobs, which hardly pays for more than surviving, not living, it's not a surprise that a lot of them do turn to crime. A couple of my friends are black and they are quite well educated, you can't say "all blacks" but one thing I've noticed especially in the US is, that if you go out of the nicer areas and you talk to blacks, they are hard to understand and they dress a bit strange, I hope I don't sound like a terrible racist, but if I would have a business, I'd hesitate to employ them as the "Yo" stuff, gangster talk and bling wouldn't be the way I would want to have my business represented. On the other hand, nobody ever tells those kids, they live in an environment where that is the norm, so you can't really blame them all that much. Then you have that whole rap culture, people like them made it big by acting like thugs, for every Morgan Freeman, Will Smith, Denzel, you got a bunch of Puff Daddys and guys who glamorize violence and crime, that appeals to kids. I seriously believe that if you would take black kids from disprivileged backgrounds out of their environment and put them into a stable environment where they are encouraged to do well for themselves, they'd adapt and would do just as well as whites and Asians.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 4:53:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze I do disagree a bit that the welfare system should only be temporary, I mean how about the elderly or people with disabilities? Things aren't going to change for them and they aren't worth less as human beings. I think one of the flaws the systems have is that they do create a poverty trap, and I think most people stuck in that trap would rather be out of it, I really don't sweat the few who see living off welfare as a career, in the great scheme of what the government spends money on, they're a blip on the screen. Our politicians waste a lot more on frivolous expense claims and such or supporting laws that benefit their "sponsors" but end up costing the economy. That's a bit like worrying about the LED night-light in a kid's room while having the heating on full blast and leaving all the doors and windows open. It is an unsupported assumption that more is wasted by politicians. More than 52% of federal spending is for entitlement spending. Up until last year, more new people had been put on social security disability than had found jobs. SNAP growth is unprecedented. It means that you are incapable of doing research, apparently you aren't quite up to date with the fact that every WalMart employee is substadized by tax money, or that big oil gets a ton of help... If you are going to blame SNAP on the deficit, I do wonder what colour the sky is on your planet, oh hold on, make that universe. [image]http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/politifact%2Fphotos%2FBudget_pie_chart_meme.jpg[/image]

bounty44 -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 6:59:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Don't you think it possible that the situation in many inner cities has nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism? Butch I also think no---liberalism or conservatism are social/political worldviews that externally (that is, the policies our government sets and practices) affect the structure of our lives, and internally and probably more importantly, the types of choices we make.

bounty44 -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 7:04:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze It means that you are incapable of doing research, apparently you aren't quite up to date with the fact that every WalMart employee is substadized by tax money, or that big oil gets a ton of help... If you are going to blame SNAP on the deficit, I do wonder what colour the sky is on your planet, oh hold on, make that universe. it would be nice if people who are trying to correct/educate others would read more carefully. in no way did phydeaux "blame SNAP on the deficit" (it should stated the other way around by the way), he merely pointed out that its growth is unprecedented and its a part of the overall entitlement spending. whats more, even though the food stamp programs have a national origin, they are predominantly run at the state level, so any "budget" that illustrates federal spending is missing part of the deal. and as to the quote marks around "budget" in the line above---the pie chart you shared is absolutely misleading, if not an outright lie, and isn't on target for the question at hand. that is, it doesn't even seem to address mandatory, as opposed to discretionary spending, try here instead: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/ republicans everywhere, and perhaps phydeaux from you, are owed an apology for [liberal] garbage like that. lastly, I trust we'll be looking forward to hearing how tax subsidies are equivalent to wealth redistribution.

AmazonInnana -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 7:29:47 AM)
What can you say to a people who speak at you instead of talk to you? What can you do to help people understand your life when they don't listen? The BLM movement is the result of fear, rage, sadness and grief. Many non-blacks got behind it because of empathy. The U.S. Is one of the greatest countries in the world, and the proof is that many people have the right to spew ignorance and racism on this thread and not face any consequences for doing so. The problem is when some of these ideas become action to intentionally (or unintentionally) hurt people who are different (race and/or class). Regardless of race, learn the difference between sympathy and empathy, then act accordingly. Don't be so quick to dismiss the pain and suffering of others.

Phydeaux -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 7:52:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze I do disagree a bit that the welfare system should only be temporary, I mean how about the elderly or people with disabilities? Things aren't going to change for them and they aren't worth less as human beings. I think one of the flaws the systems have is that they do create a poverty trap, and I think most people stuck in that trap would rather be out of it, I really don't sweat the few who see living off welfare as a career, in the great scheme of what the government spends money on, they're a blip on the screen. Our politicians waste a lot more on frivolous expense claims and such or supporting laws that benefit their "sponsors" but end up costing the economy. That's a bit like worrying about the LED night-light in a kid's room while having the heating on full blast and leaving all the doors and windows open. It is an unsupported assumption that more is wasted by politicians. More than 52% of federal spending is for entitlement spending. Up until last year, more new people had been put on social security disability than had found jobs. SNAP growth is unprecedented. It means that you are incapable of doing research, apparently you aren't quite up to date with the fact that every WalMart employee is substadized by tax money, or that big oil gets a ton of help... If you are going to blame SNAP on the deficit, I do wonder what colour the sky is on your planet, oh hold on, make that universe. [image]http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/politifact%2Fphotos%2FBudget_pie_chart_meme.jpg[/image] Talk trash me little girl, and expect to get schooled. Lets start with your idiocy about "big oil gets a ton of subsidies". Big oil gets $4 billion in "subsidies". The #3 subsidy is heating oil assistance that helps poor people afford heating oil. Cost - around $800mil. The #2 subsidy - allowing farmers not to pay taxes on fuel. Since farm equipment doesn't drive on roads, and the road taxes were supposed to be for road maintance. Total cost - about $1.1 billion. The number one oil subsidy? Allowing them to deduct the cost of computers and equipment on the same accelerated depreciation schedule as EVERY other American corporation. Of course when passed this was hyped as a job creation bill. Your stupid and misleading little pie chart comes from "national priorities" a democrat organization. And the chart you passed off as "Federal spending" is its puerile take on "Discretionary spending". Of course, being an IDIOT you don't know the difference, do you. So let me set you straight, little girl. The government classify entitlement spending as "mandatory", since people have made contributions to unemployment insurance, social security etc. Discretionary spending constitutes the rest of things that the government spends on. Even your own source understands the difference. Here's the budget picture you didn't understand (or didn't want to present). Since you also cut off the copyright information on your image, which is illegal and immoral, I suspect you were deliberately being deceptive. Funny thing about that - your image shows that "mandatory spending" is not only more than 52% - its way more. Isn't it. See the reason, little girl, is because I actually read budgets and already discounted things that the government counts as mandatory but which aren't entitlement spending. https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/ [image]local://upfiles/11137/354C2DFA62A540C49EC90B8C8428D328.jpg[/image]

Phydeaux -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 7:55:43 AM)
{image]local://upfiles/11137/00C6D05851D04D8DB427BCE38A8F8E96.jpg[/image]

LadyConstanze -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 8:11:07 AM)
Oh dear, you are trying to school me? Actually if you want to address me correctly, it's Doctor, some of us have education, if you insist calling me little girl, I assume you're a nasty old man, you might be qualified to school somebody in how to be a racist, I think cow tipping would also be an ability you might have, but logic and seeing things in perspective sadly seems to be out of your grasp, as much as posting pictures So old man, despite your mental disability, I would suggest to see things in relation, even somebody with your limited mental capacity should be able to do it. As for your schooling, I give you a shout if I want to learn how to cow tip, muck out a barn or just be a complete and utter twat, but don't hold your breath.

bounty44 -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 8:36:15 AM)
nothing you just said in reply actually touches on the fact that you were dead wrong to begin with, not to mention unjustifiably snarky in the post that started the side conversation. so to an extent, you got what you gave. yeah---you did get "schooled"---you posted garbage and got called on it. the unfortunate thing is, had you done so neutrally, or inquisitively, then you would have been met in kind. one would think if you are indeed graduate school educated, not only would you be more careful with the information you post, but that you'd also have some humility in sharing it and in standing corrected in light of the truth. I know its tough and I fail at it frequently---despite the fact we are all more or less anonymous here, it still has a public feel to it and pride is at stake. self-justification is humanity's single greatest talent.

Phydeaux -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 9:24:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Oh dear, you are trying to school me? Actually if you want to address me correctly, it's Doctor, some of us have education, if you insist calling me little girl, I assume you're a nasty old man, you might be qualified to school somebody in how to be a racist, I think cow tipping would also be an ability you might have, but logic and seeing things in perspective sadly seems to be out of your grasp, as much as posting pictures So old man, despite your mental disability, I would suggest to see things in relation, even somebody with your limited mental capacity should be able to do it. As for your schooling, I give you a shout if I want to learn how to cow tip, muck out a barn or just be a complete and utter twat, but don't hold your breath. Since you are doubling down on idiocy, - lets just take one more example of your brilliance, shall we? quote: Somewhere within the tiny orange sliver on the bottom is the food stamp program that republicans blame for our budget deficit Using your own source, quote: Mandatory spending is spending that Congress legislates outside of the annual appropriations process, usually less than once a year. It is dominated by the well-known earned-benefit programs Social Security and Medicare. It also includes widely used safety net programs like the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, formerly food stamps), and a significant amount of federal spending on transportation, among other things. So no, since your little pie chart was "discretionary spending" and SNAP funding is "mandatory" spending - it doesn't actually fall in that little sliver now, does it. Of course not. You, in your doctoral brilliance blamed Walmart and Big Oil subsidies on our budget deficit. Ignoring Walmart for a minute; because the $4 billion we spend on big oil "subsidies" you know ... oil for the poor, etc. is obviously more important than the $74 Billion we spent on SNAP alone. So you might be a doctor (I doubt it) but you clearly don't have the fundamental understanding that $74 billion is bigger than $4 billion. Much bigger. Try reading an actual US budget some time, instead of just your left wing drivel. Or if you can't stomach that - try this, which will at least ground you in fundamental reality. http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/12/federal-spending-by-the-numbers-2014 FYI so, what actually does go in that tiny orange sliver? One example: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/26/us/farm-loan-bias-claims-often-unsupported-cost-us-millions.html?_r=0 You know - money paid to black people that never farmed, as a counter for past discrimination that never or minimally existed. Followed by me-too compensation to Hispanics, women, and native americans. Even the far left times decried the program as rampant fraud. It was so bad even some of the original plaintiffs criticized the handouts....

Real0ne -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 9:26:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze It means that you are incapable of doing research, apparently you aren't quite up to date with the fact that every WalMart employee is substadized by tax money, or that big oil gets a ton of help... If you are going to blame SNAP on the deficit, I do wonder what colour the sky is on your planet, oh hold on, make that universe. [image]http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/politifact%2Fphotos%2FBudget_pie_chart_meme.jpg[/image] well there is a huge irony in this whole thing. People do not complain not one peep about paying our taxes for the military to take over the world but instead whine and cry about paying taxes for a wide variety of benefits for people et al.

Real0ne -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 9:29:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy God, this whole thread is garbage. • American police officers killed 74 unarmed black people in 2015. • unarmed black men were seven times more likely than unarmed white men to die by police gunfire. • An analysis of F.B.I. data from 2010 to 2012 concluded that the police killed black men ages 15 to 19 at a rate 21 times greater than the statistic for white men the same age. Bingo! Keep in mind that the courts have dissolved due process wherein probable cause has been replaced with probable suspicion. see the iowa supreme court knowles case, and we are reaping the evils of their corruption as I type, as you said. They have brought attorneys into small claims courts, accept hearsay testimony, allow attorneys to testify, and made it damnable difficult to get a jury trial at least in this state. Its all about rubber stamp extortion.

Phydeaux -> RE: Black Lies Matter (1/2/2016 9:40:37 AM)
Yeah? That's because our military 17.5% of the budget, despite individual programs that are ridiculous ($4.2 billion dollar zumwalt anyone?) is actually pretty efficient and competent at what it does. Whereas most of us know that the more than $17 trillion dollars spent on the war on poverty will never actually end poverty. We object to programs such as head start - being billed as a way to boost test scores has dramatically failed EVERY metric of that endeavor. I would much rather give money to parents to let them buy food for themselves then empower another beauracracy in a public school. Why exactly do we think its better to have public schools feed kids than macdonalds (ie., private enterprise)? And please don't tell me quality of food. The point is the vast majority of Americans (including myself) support a helping hand for americans. But they object to able body people living on welfare their entire lives. And this administration waived the rules that said in order to get welfare you have to participate in a training program, be looking for work, or be doing community service. But this doesnt' change the fact that the growth in entitltement spending is crowding out all other spending. Looking at the numbers, there can be no question that entitlement reform MUST happen.

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