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RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/5/2016 8:37:09 PM   
Phydeaux


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Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
5. Owning arms, even at a protest is not treason. Even firing on someone isn't necessarily treason. Do you really think you could call the protestors at ferguson treasonous? Of course not.
It is only when you are advocating the overthrow of the US govt - which by the way I have heard an MSNBC anchor do, (couldn't believe it), and multiple BLM protestors - that you are engaged in treason or sedition.


"But taking up arms against your government is treasonous."

That was the quote you're responding to here, Phydeaux. Note that he didn't say "owning arms at a protest" is treasonous. His actual statement is correct, but I'm not sure if he's correct in asserting that these guys have "taken up arms against the US Govt."



Taking up arms against your goverment only has one meaning, which was my point. It means employing them. It does not mean owning them, displaying them, parading with them.

Taking up arms against your government is treason. But they have not, as yet.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 12:40:05 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Occupation Alcatraz lasted from 1969 to 1971.

I would also suggest you people who are bringing up Ruby Ridge, Waco, OWS consider the following.

There are a few big difference between what is happening today in Oregon and what happened with those incidents.

Ruby Ridge stemmed from an invistigation began by a GOP presidents justice Department over some illegal firearm purchase that was set up and sold by ATF personnel. US Marshals showed up to make the arrest, and somebody started shooting.

The Branch Davidians at Waco was alleged to have illegal automatic firearms, the initial invistigation was started by local LEO's and ended with the involvement of the ATF, National Guard a fire fight, and the eventual burning alive of a bunch of people because of one lunatic who claimed he was Jesus Christ.

OWS was just a bunch of idiots who tried unsuccessfully to push the 1% into admitting they were fucking with everyone.

And then you guys throw around Baltimore and Ferguson.

However, these 'militiamen' who are, at present guilty of nothing more than armed trespass on Federal Property do have a philosophy, it is called Sovereign Citizen.

The basic idea is that the highest level of government is that of the county, and the Federal Government has no authority to do jack shit about anything.

Members of this movement have been involved with the murder of Police Officers, volunteer Firefighters, and one blew up a Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

One of the posters on this board who is not a native of the US, has referenced that ranchers have to sell their land, without one fucking bit of a clue as to why that sale is being forced.

But where the 'victims' of past BLM and DOJ operations have asked for support from these Sovereign Citizens, in this case, the father and son who are being wrongfully forced back to prison have not asked for support from these idiots, do not want support from these idiots, and wish these idiots would go away.

There are left leaning members of this board that are screaming that these people are being treated differently than those in Ferguson or Baltimore, and yes, they are, for they have not killed anyone, destroyed private or public property, and have not shot a single person.

Then you have the assholes who post cute comics as a comparison.

Is it right that police have a nasty habit of shooting first and asking questions later, no. Is it true that police are killing more African Americans than anyone else, fuck no. Black on Black crime is at an all time high, as is Latino on Latino and white on white.

Now, personally, I think that they out to be treated by the government the same way that the Native Americans were treated when they peacefully occupied Wounded Knee South Dakota in 1973. Then two native Americans were killed and a civil rights activist who joined the protesters vanished and still has not been found.

The father and son should be released, and considering the unconstitutionality of the second judges ruling, should be granted a full pardon and compensated for the crap they have taken. Eventually, they might get everything but the pardon.

I will give you folks something else to think about.

In the riots in LA, Ferguson, Baltimore, those people did not leave their neighborhoods to destroy property in the neighborhoods where the 'oppressive' White Anglo Americans lived, they looted and burned shit owned by their fucking neighbors.

That is not protesting injustice, and it sure as fuck aint no fucking revolution, it is the pure and simple taking advantage of the situation and fucking your neighbor over.

And technically, with the expressed political philosophy of these armed jackasses in Oregon, you could actually make a very good case for armed insurrection.

Hell that was the justification for the Nixon Administration for sending in the National Guard to deal with American Indians occupying a town owned by American Indians, on American Indian land.

Or the dropping of a bomb on the home of a bunch of fanatics by local police in Philadelphia.

And then, you have some who claim, wrongly, the leftist protesters never used violence or armed conflict to make a point.

Non American citizens making comments about a government agency that they know absofuckinglutely nothing about based on fucked up inflammatory news stories on some fucking news network, none of which could broadcast a fair unbiased report on anything including a dog taking a shit in a public park.

The modern concept for the modern news media is "Lets make things 600000 times worse by telling half truths, lies, and broadcasting images that show the fucking worse crap of the whole situation."

The reality of the situation here is that some father and son got fucked over by a justice system, a bunch of right wing ultra conservative armed fuckheads are trying to make a name for themselves by claiming to be rushing to help.

The ultimate reality is even worse. The majority of the human race is nothing more than a mass of terminally stupid people who are bad enough left to their own devices, and down right dangerous in a mob setting, who are alive because there is no longer the impact of natural selection to weed out these fucking morons during childhood and adolescence.

And then there are people who post crap on these subjects who, any other time, would post intelligent, even insightful thoughts on any other subject, turn into passion driven fools prone to insults, who would never dream of acting in such a way in a face to face debate.

God the wonders of the internet and the 24 hour news cycle.

And the worst part of the whole story is that if that father and son would have gone to the local BLM administrator and made their case properly, the government would have sent people out to do the same thing they got charged with arson for. The BLM and forestry service do controlled burns all the time to prevent worse fires in the future.

The only thing this father and son are guilty of is not doing the paperwork and trying to save the Federal Government a shit ton of money by doing it themselves instead of a bunch of government employees dragging a bunch of equipment out to do the job.

It has probably cost the government 5 times more to arrest, hold the trial and put these guys in prison.





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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 1:28:35 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

The reality of the situation here is that some father and son got fucked over by a justice system, a bunch of right wing ultra conservative armed fuckheads are trying to make a name for themselves by claiming to be rushing to help.

If you feel the father and son got fucked over.
Then these armed fuckheads are seeking justice for them, although not in an appropriate manner, is still doing something for good reasons, just that the execution is wrong. It brought countrywide attention to the unfair treatment of those two.

If we don't blame BLM for anything they have done in their own search for their own justice, then the same kind of attitude should be extended to these people too.

As a non-American, looking in as an outsider, I just want fairness.

For people to be taking drastic measures, surely something outrageous is going on. In BLM case, some blacks got killed unfairly by cops but I just disagree with their slogan (black lives matter, because I think it's racist towards all other races). In Oregon case, Federal Government fucked over 2 ranchers.



(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 5:55:46 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Early morning quote condensing. Cross your fingers for me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Of course it should be defused. I was talking to those people who want to go in guns blazing. That is the worst possible outcome. Imagine if white protestors were handled with kid gloves after arson and murder and within a year black protestors were massacred over trespass and because they had weapons.
Reverse the colors and that is what it will look like if the government storms the place.
I think the protestors here are right, and while I understand their tactics I am dubious about their methods.

That last part is pretty obvious. I'm not seeing a whole lot of a "yeah, buddy!" type of reaction to the way these guys are doing this. It may not turn out to be necessary, but I am in favor of the school district's move to close. They didn't know if the situation would escalate or what the potentials were, and I'm usually in the better safe than sorry camp when it comes to these situations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
They said they would fight back if attacked but still their only crime is trespass.
Threat were made against other people but no connection has been made to the protestors. Whoever did it are beyond the pale.

Unfortunately, this is ambiguous. Even people going in there to try to removed them quietly could be seen as being attacked, so we have no choice but to wait to see how that plays out. Eventually, when it does come time to remove them, I don't want to see bullets whizzing at the good guys, either.

We're in agreement with the beyond pale thing. I think most decent people would be. There's a certain kind of lowlife that goes about threatening children.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If God wanted him to go to Oklahoma why is he in Oregon?
Which is more far fetched to call this trespass as I did, or to call it an attempt to overthrow the Federal government as the Sheriff did?
It is comments like that which make me fear a violent outcome.

Bah! My bad. Sorry about that. Willing to take the honest reason that I was just getting the state wrong due to really needing for my head to hit the pillow? Totally my fault.

I think both are inaccurate and could be more realistic. My question for you would be, how long are you willing to consider it trespass, rather than interference with whatever work needs to be done at the refuge? There's also a cost factor associated with this, which is over and above what these folks got away with the last time they pulled a similar stunt. The sheriff's office is still taking their time and attention away from other matters just because these folks decided they were taking over buildings that weren't theirs. That factors in too, doesn't it?


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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 6:07:28 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
Finally found the article that says it.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/ammon_bundy_exudes_calm_as_he.html

In my mind it doesn't make any difference. Its still illegal entry of a federal building, while armed. It is standard practice to have sentencing laws regarding crimes committed with and without weapons. Armed robbery almost always carries a stiffer sentence than (unarmed) robbery. Because people realize how much bringing a weapon into a potential conflict ramps up the risk of aggression. I see this as no different.

These people have a history of armed aggression of this variety, in Nevada. Yet in order to avoid another Waco or Ruby Ridge, the government backed off and pretended it never happened. Cliven Bundy was never made to pay the $1 million+ dollars in fees that they were protesting, and there were no charges brought against any of the people. Felonies were committed in full view of hundreds of witnesses onsite, yet Bundy and his followers got off scot-free. Because the government was trying to avoid a violent confrontation.

Come on, when your own father (Cliven Bundy) says you don't have anyone to protest against, and when even the Oathkeepers (who stood with Bundy in Oklahoma, showed up uninvited and armed in Baltimore to protect against rioters, and came to the defense of Kim Davis and stood as her armed protectors) condemn you for what you are doing, you should really take a step back and reconsider.

The Oathkeepers statement:
https://www.oathkeepers.org/the-hammond-family-does/


(In an interview with /Cliuven Bundy days before the occupation in Oregon)
Who Wants A Burns Standoff? Not The Sheriff, The Ranchers, Or Even Cliven Bundy
Even Bundy is unsure whether the protest is a good idea, and whether it’s proper for his family’s supporters to get involved. “I don’t quite understand how much they’re going to accomplish,” Bundy said. “I think of it this way: what business does the Bundy family have in Harney County, Oregon?”
http://www.opb.org/news/article/burns-oregon-standoff-militia/

Have to give a word of thanks for posting the links. I just wasn't making it last night.

Heh. I wouldn't want to be the person who was responsible for those keys. It almost falls into the "you had one job" category.

You've got a point about the firearms being in a building owned by the federal government. There usually are charges associated with that, as well as fines. Kind of at least have to add that.

I have to wonder a bit if Clive Bundy is feeling ok with teaching his sons that this is the way to settle things.



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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 6:36:12 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		small addition to the conversation:

quote:

Twitter has suspended Ammon Bundy’s account. What is interesting is the quickness, relatively, with which they yanked the account, compared to for example Black Lives Matter or ISIS accounts which have much more offensive things about them. But in looking at it, there doesn’t seem to be anything which would violate their Terms of Service.


http://www.weaselzippers.us/249148-twitter-suspends-oregon-protester-ammon-bundys-account/

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 8:24:19 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

The reality of the situation here is that some father and son got fucked over by a justice system, a bunch of right wing ultra conservative armed fuckheads are trying to make a name for themselves by claiming to be rushing to help.

If you feel the father and son got fucked over.
Then these armed fuckheads are seeking justice for them, although not in an appropriate manner, is still doing something for good reasons, just that the execution is wrong. It brought countrywide attention to the unfair treatment of those two.

If we don't blame BLM for anything they have done in their own search for their own justice, then the same kind of attitude should be extended to these people too.

As a non-American, looking in as an outsider, I just want fairness.

For people to be taking drastic measures, surely something outrageous is going on. In BLM case, some blacks got killed unfairly by cops but I just disagree with their slogan (black lives matter, because I think it's racist towards all other races). In Oregon case, Federal Government fucked over 2 ranchers.






Greta, it may surprise you to know, but the plight of this father and son was pretty much well known to many people, and these fucked up individuals who took over a building, regardless of their claims to the contrary, dont give a flying fuck about the father and son, or anyone else for that matter.

And more to the point, the father and son, the families of the father and son, and the lawyers, DONT WANT THESE FUCKHEADS HELP.

This action taken by these fucked up retarded morons is doing nothing but making the situation worse for the father and son. If these morons really wanted to help, they could have raised money to hire a couple of crack constitutional law lawyers and do it the right way.

But they wont do that because the movement's philosophy is that there is no court of any consequence higher than that of the county. So it is going to be "hold my beer while I grab my gun and do something so totally stupid that it may end up getting me and others killed, and really fuck over the two guys we claim to be supporting."

As for the "black lives matter" movement, there are more blacks killing blacks on a DAILY basis than cops killing blacks. All these fuckwits are trying to do is to make it look like a nationwide conspiracy within the law enforcement community to kill blacks.

And to be honest, it is not really the BLM's fault. It is the judge for being a jack ass.

But it does give me an idea for a gun control law that would work...

A basic IQ test, along with a cognitive thinking test (measures common sense) and finally in depth examination of how much an individual spends on beer in the average week.



< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 1/6/2016 8:32:18 AM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

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Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 8:47:30 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

small addition to the conversation:

quote:

Twitter has suspended Ammon Bundy’s account. What is interesting is the quickness, relatively, with which they yanked the account, compared to for example Black Lives Matter or ISIS accounts which have much more offensive things about them. But in looking at it, there doesn’t seem to be anything which would violate their Terms of Service.


http://www.weaselzippers.us/249148-twitter-suspends-oregon-protester-ammon-bundys-account/

Ammon Bundys account is still open, he tweeted not twenty minutes ago... here is a snip from his account.
I took it at 11.34 am EST as shown by the clock





PS He is NOW ahem, claiming he is comparable to rosa parks
the guy isnt playing with a full deck is he.
ww.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-bundy-comparing-rosa-parks-joke-article-1.2487066?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 9:15:56 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		load up the oathkeepers on prison busses, front them with apcs. drop them off at the birdhouse, burnt the lot of the traitors.

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Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 9:28:06 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		jf,

I kinda see these ranchers as uneducated, so I am not surprise why they chose to handle things this way, rather than through proper channels. Does not make what they are doing the right way. But that's what happens.

In my country, there was an incident where basically this bangladeshi went into the bus and pull down his pants and flash himself at the female minder in the bus. So he got thrown out of the bus, but he ran after the bus and infront of it, to stop it, and the bus ran over him.

All the other bangladeshi saw it , and all they saw was him being thrown out of the bus and ran over. They got really mad and took the law upon their own hands, they all surrounded an attacked the bus, and over turned it, they even fought the police when the police came, and set a few police cars on fire. They even attacked the ambulances that came to try to help the injured. They were angry and believed their own country mate was mistreated. And this is their way of dealing with things, because they weren't very educated. They were in our country as basic construction workers.

And when I saw that incident, my first thought was, these guys just need an education about how to handle things like that. They were not educated, they only were doing what they usually do in their own country where there is no proper justice for anything and they take matters into their own hands. Also their reaction was because they felt someone was unfairly treated, in this case, that guy died, basically they thought it was outright murder, so like their whole reaction was understandable especially witnessing it live from their end.

So I believe while of course what you suggest was the better idea, but I genuinely believe they may not have thought of that, at all. They don't seem very bright. They can't even articulate their demands and exactly what they want to achieve from this take over of this house. To me, they are intellectually not there. And frankly, I think their leader just dug a hole for himself he can't get out of. He really didn't plan what to do next, or how to move what he wants to achieve forward. How stupid it is, to just sit and occupy a house without any specific demands. That's how low IQ these guys are. I think also that's why the government haven't stomped in with force, because knowing exactly, mentally, these guys are just not bright. It's like stomping into a house of autistic people or something and hurting them.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/6/2016 9:38:41 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 10:42:08 AM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline 		You are seriously saying that this is happening because they are uneducated and don't know any better?

Greta, I can't even begin to describe how stunned i am at this statement.


There are no words that I know that would sufficiently describe the level of naivete and uninformed opinion that you just shared. I am having serious difficulty wrapping around my head the idea that anyone over the age of 10 could possibly think this has any merit, much less actually post it.

This is serious whatthefuckery on a new level. Even for you.

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Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 11:07:11 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Early morning quote condensing. Cross your fingers for me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Of course it should be defused. I was talking to those people who want to go in guns blazing. That is the worst possible outcome. Imagine if white protestors were handled with kid gloves after arson and murder and within a year black protestors were massacred over trespass and because they had weapons.
Reverse the colors and that is what it will look like if the government storms the place.
I think the protestors here are right, and while I understand their tactics I am dubious about their methods.

That last part is pretty obvious. I'm not seeing a whole lot of a "yeah, buddy!" type of reaction to the way these guys are doing this. It may not turn out to be necessary, but I am in favor of the school district's move to close. They didn't know if the situation would escalate or what the potentials were, and I'm usually in the better safe than sorry camp when it comes to these situations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
They said they would fight back if attacked but still their only crime is trespass.
Threat were made against other people but no connection has been made to the protestors. Whoever did it are beyond the pale.

Unfortunately, this is ambiguous. Even people going in there to try to removed them quietly could be seen as being attacked, so we have no choice but to wait to see how that plays out. Eventually, when it does come time to remove them, I don't want to see bullets whizzing at the good guys, either.

We're in agreement with the beyond pale thing. I think most decent people would be. There's a certain kind of lowlife that goes about threatening children.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If God wanted him to go to Oklahoma why is he in Oregon?
Which is more far fetched to call this trespass as I did, or to call it an attempt to overthrow the Federal government as the Sheriff did?
It is comments like that which make me fear a violent outcome.

Bah! My bad. Sorry about that. Willing to take the honest reason that I was just getting the state wrong due to really needing for my head to hit the pillow? Totally my fault.

I think both are inaccurate and could be more realistic. My question for you would be, how long are you willing to consider it trespass, rather than interference with whatever work needs to be done at the refuge? There's also a cost factor associated with this, which is over and above what these folks got away with the last time they pulled a similar stunt. The sheriff's office is still taking their time and attention away from other matters just because these folks decided they were taking over buildings that weren't theirs. That factors in too, doesn't it?


The refuge building was not currently in use, so it looks like they chose a place that would cause minimum harm and disruption.
The Sheriff is the last person I would want in charge of "controling" the situation as he has clearly, in his mind, blown it totally out of proportion.
As far as I am concerned both the protesters and the officers who would be sent in to force them out are, to some extent, the good guys.
One hothead could turn this into a real tragedy.
The left has been going on about Obama can't be anti gun because he signed a bill allowing firearms in federal parks and such so the possesion of firearms there may be in a gray area.
BLM, (land management, not black lives) has been harrasing these people for years.
The judge who decided to go back and add to the sentences is the real villian in this peice.
That does not equate to thinking that eveything the protestors do is right.
Keep in mind that nothing they have done begins to rival the harm done in open rebellion in Baltimore just a few months ago. Unfortunatly the man in charge of law enforcement there has convienced himself that the fate of the nation depends on him putting down this "uprising".
my ranking of "villians"
the judge
the sheriff
BLM
the protestors
the cops who may be sent in to force an end to this.

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Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 11:09:11 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

The reality of the situation here is that some father and son got fucked over by a justice system, a bunch of right wing ultra conservative armed fuckheads are trying to make a name for themselves by claiming to be rushing to help.

If you feel the father and son got fucked over.
Then these armed fuckheads are seeking justice for them, although not in an appropriate manner, is still doing something for good reasons, just that the execution is wrong. It brought countrywide attention to the unfair treatment of those two.

If we don't blame BLM for anything they have done in their own search for their own justice, then the same kind of attitude should be extended to these people too.

As a non-American, looking in as an outsider, I just want fairness.

For people to be taking drastic measures, surely something outrageous is going on. In BLM case, some blacks got killed unfairly by cops but I just disagree with their slogan (black lives matter, because I think it's racist towards all other races). In Oregon case, Federal Government fucked over 2 ranchers.




The BLM involved here is Bureau of Land Management, not Black Lives Matter.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 11:16:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Dump a gasbag on the terrorists and burn them out. Nobody was upset about Gordon Kahl. Nobody was upset over Claude Dallas.

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Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 1:05:25 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		What's wrong with "We won't be held ransom by a bunch of rednecks with guns, come out unarmed if you don't want to get hurt!" If not, a shit load of tear gas fired into the building should do the trick. Alternatively, just starve them out, sooner or later they have to give up, then charge them with the costs they caused.

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Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 1:14:34 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Did that to Bundy's before they have been letting them off the hook for years, time to finish this. String them up or burn them out.

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 1:27:21 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Did that to Bundy's before they have been letting them off the hook for years, time to finish this. String them up or burn them out.



Honestly, little sympathy for the "wannabe militia" but to string them up or burn them out seems to be a bit harsh, you don't want to set an example where that is remotely OK, you'd really open a can of worms there that would reach way into the future. Make sure they don't get off the hook legally this time, but don't turn a bunch of doofuses into martyrs for rednecks.

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(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 1:54:11 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		civil war is still being talked about, but nothing done.

do you know who gordon kahl is without looking him up? claude dallas?

I aint worried, the doofuses start hero worshipping and doing that crap, fry them up too.

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 2:38:27 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		There is a bit more to the story.

Now, after the fire, the BLM (by mandate) had to deal with the fire. The father and son admitted to the BLM how and why it was started.

Now, a BLM supervisor basically said, okay, pay the cost of us having to deal with it and all will be kosher.

Well, some federal prosecutor saw the report of an intentially set fire on BLM managed lands.

So he found out who, how, why, and then in his infinitely stupid lets fuck some poor bastard over zeal, charged the father and son with arson under an old anti terrorism law.

A local BLM source claims that the BLM people suggested no charges were necessary.

Okay, with the fact the father and son confessed, a conviction was a cake walk.

First judge thought the whole case was bullshit and gave the lightest possible sentences and basically called the prosecutor an asshole in his sentencing statement.

Prosecutor was butt hurt so he went crying to another judge.

The other judge (also an over zealous fuck over the little guy type) declares the first sentences to light under the law that was the basis for the case. Now that law could have ended with father and son serving life, so the second judge was not so "lets fuck you without a kiss" that he nailed thier asses that hard, but he did send them back to prison with a new sentence.

Now, double jeopardy will not allow for you to be tried a second time for a crime you were acquitted on. So if dad and son had been found not guilty, the whole thing would have ended.

However, there is the thing about cruel and unusual punishment, which seems to be the case here. The two men served the initial sentences given, and were released with time served, a good bye, and sent home.

The second judge comes in and demands longer sentences, has them picked up and sent back to prison.

Well, since they were not on parole, it seems to me that this is clearly a violation of the cruel and unusual protection. So IMO the second judge and the prosecutor who wanted the two men tried as terrorists under a law that is not really used anymore, but would get him the sentences he wanted to make a name for himself both need to be horsewhipped and then have barbed wire wrapped butt plugs shoved up their asses for being assholes.

Then removed from the justice system and disbarred.

As to the militiamen who took over the building. Since they do not believe that there is any governmental authority over that of the county, I suggest a lesson in American Government 101.

To whit, a full blown assault on the building by Federal agents using everything from tear gas to an experimental audio/visual sensory overload system designed to be non lethal just induce nausea, vertigo and the occasional loss of bowel and bladder control and then making a video record of them being marched out of the building in all their vomit, piss and shit covered glory so that it can be shown to any other would be anti government idiot planning to do something similar.

I would also have really good HD photos taken of each man and the prints of those photos plastered all over their home towns. It is really hard to be taken seriously as a radical when there is a photographic record of the person covered in their own shit.

And no jail time.

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(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge... - 1/6/2016 2:43:35 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		jeff, hey, while it jives with what Ive read...this one bothered me a bit.


The second judge comes in and demands longer sentences, has them picked up and sent back to prison.
I was led to believe that they surrendered to the jail/prison/wherever on monday? WHen they were ordered to..
AM I thinking of a different time.????

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(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 200
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