Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

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ifmaz -> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/2/2016 8:24:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/drama_in_burns_ends_with_quiet.html Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters The Bundy family of Nevada joined with hard-core militiamen Saturday to take over the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, vowing to occupy the remote federal outpost 50 miles southeast of Burns for years. The occupation came shortly after an estimated 300 marchers – militia and local citizens both – paraded through Burns to protest the prosecution of two Harney County ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond, who are to report to prison on Monday. Among the occupiers is Ammon Bundy, son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, and two of his brothers. Militia members at the refuge claimed they had as many as 150 supporters with them. The refuge, federal property managed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, was closed and unoccupied for the holiday weekend. In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate. "The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said. "We're planning on staying here for years, absolutely," he added. "This is not a decision we've made at the last minute." Neither would say how many people are in the building or whether they are armed. Ryan Bundy said the group would release a statement shortly. "We will do whatever it takes to maintain our freedom," he said. Government sources told The Oregonian/OregonLive that the militia also was planning to occupy a closed wildland fire station near the town of Frenchglen. The U.S. Bureau of Land Management posts crews there during the fire season. Law enforcement officials so far have not commented on the situation. Oregon State Police, the Harney County Sheriff's Office and the FBI were involved. Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page calling on patriots from across the country to report to the refuge – with their weapons. The dramatic turn came after other militia groups had tried to dampen community concerns they meant trouble. Brandon Curtiss, a militia leader from Idaho, told The Oregonian/OregonLive he knew nothing about the occupation. He helped organize Saturday's protest and was at the Harney County Fairgrounds with dozens of other militia for a post-parade function. Another militia leader, BJ Soper, took to Facebook to denounce the occupation. The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own. Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison. Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined. "We went to the local communities and presented it many times and to many different people," he said. "They were not strong enough to make the stand. So many individuals across the United States and in Oregon are making this stand. We hope they will grab onto this and realize that it's been happening." Among those joining Bundy in the occupation are Ryan Payne, U.S. Army veteran, and Blaine Cooper. Payne has claimed to have helped organize militia snipers to target federal agents in a standoff last year in Nevada. He told one news organization the federal agents would have been killed had they made the wrong move. He has been a steady presence in Burns in recent weeks, questioning people who were critical of the militia's presence. He typically had a holstered sidearm as he moved around the community. At a community meeting in Burns Friday, Payne disavowed any ill intent. "The agenda is to uphold the Constitution. That's all," he said. Cooper, another militia leader, said at that meeting he participated in the Bundy standoff in Nevada. "I went there to defend Cliven with my life," Cooper said. Another story @ https://www.rt.com/usa/327762-armed-bundy-militia-oregon-ranchers/

MrRodgers -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/2/2016 9:04:02 PM)
Well they must feel as if they are among the entitled few.

Kirata -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/2/2016 9:05:00 PM)
It might help to have some background. When the men were indicted in 2010 on federal arson charges, they faced sentencing under the federal Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. Some Hammond backers and a host of recent social media posts translated that to mean the Hammonds were treated as terrorists. "When you starting bringing in the terrorism act for God-fearing livestock producers in eastern Oregon, something is wrong," said Barry Bushue, a Multnomah County berry farmer and president of the Oregon Farm Bureau. Federal prosecutors say they did no such thing. "At no time have I ever called these two men terrorists. Never," Papagni, the federal prosecutor, said in court last October. "They committed arson." But the five-year sentence mandated by terrorism law also concerned people. Among the critics: the federal judge who presided over the Hammonds' trial in Pendleton. U.S. District Judge Michael Hogan said at the men's original sentencing in 2012 that such a term would be unconstitutional as cruel and unusual punishment. "It would be a sentence which would shock the conscience," Hogan said before sentencing Dwight to three months and Steve to one year. The men served their time and went home to raise cattle. But their case, it turned out, was far from settled. Amanda Marshall, then U.S. attorney for Oregon, said she recommended the government challenge Hogan's sentence as illegal. More at the link: http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/12/ranchers_fight_with_feds_spark.html K.

Termyn8or -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/2/2016 9:28:34 PM)
They may have a case, of course. the government is frequently wrong. However these people just up and occupying something like that is a bad move. Remember what happened to the south, and all they wanted was freedom from the north. (actually they wanted their own currency because the USD was becoming the fiat wealth stealer it is today) Remember OWS ? they were protesting not being able to afford the better Beamer. Look what happened to them, and they didn't occupy shit except the streets. Anyway, about the Hammonds, here is something from a dot gov : http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison Whole thing looks like they were trying to preserve their property, but are accused of poaching. Plenty of gray area. but you know when there is doubt the government wins. Bottom line, I like the idea of people standing up to this goddamn regime, but this is not the way to fight them. They got all emboldened by the backdown at the Bundy place, and they are probably going to go too far, if they haven't already. They seem to have forgotten Waco and Ruby Ridge. I am all for them. get the BLM and whatever else federal BS agencies the fuck out of there. Bur what people do not understand is that the feds do not display fear. They believe they are the stronger and even a temporary setback will be dealt with severely. they think they are right BECAUSE they are on the side of the government, so there is arguing with them or convincing them. The only way to get the government to back down is to make them think their bodies will never be found. That is why they rarely travel alone, like cops, acting more like a gang. It will take extremely sophisticated tactics to make any headroom with these government thugs. Alot of thought has to go into it. you have to make their agents afraid sure, but the real problem is to make their superiors afraid. That is what McVeigh tried to do and failed. Unfortunately, these people are probably going to just make it worse. T^T

BamaD -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/2/2016 9:50:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or They may have a case, of course. the government is frequently wrong. However these people just up and occupying something like that is a bad move. Remember what happened to the south, and all they wanted was freedom from the north. (actually they wanted their own currency because the USD was becoming the fiat wealth stealer it is today) Remember OWS ? they were protesting not being able to afford the better Beamer. Look what happened to them, and they didn't occupy shit except the streets. Anyway, about the Hammonds, here is something from a dot gov : http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison Whole thing looks like they were trying to preserve their property, but are accused of poaching. Plenty of gray area. but you know when there is doubt the government wins. Bottom line, I like the idea of people standing up to this goddamn regime, but this is not the way to fight them. They got all emboldened by the backdown at the Bundy place, and they are probably going to go too far, if they haven't already. They seem to have forgotten Waco and Ruby Ridge. I am all for them. get the BLM and whatever else federal BS agencies the fuck out of there. Bur what people do not understand is that the feds do not display fear. They believe they are the stronger and even a temporary setback will be dealt with severely. they think they are right BECAUSE they are on the side of the government, so there is arguing with them or convincing them. The only way to get the government to back down is to make them think their bodies will never be found. That is why they rarely travel alone, like cops, acting more like a gang. It will take extremely sophisticated tactics to make any headroom with these government thugs. Alot of thought has to go into it. you have to make their agents afraid sure, but the real problem is to make their superiors afraid. That is what McVeigh tried to do and failed. Unfortunately, these people are probably going to just make it worse. T^T This is more like OWS than McVeigh. It is also the same tactic used in the 60's by both the civil rights and anti war movements. And what happened to OWS, nothing.

Termyn8or -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/2/2016 10:10:53 PM)
Well if they are inside a federal building they must have broken in or displaced some federal employees, if the latter it was by force. However, what one has to realize that the feds do not give u p easily because they got our unlimited money to use against us. What we need, instead of these outbreaks here and there, is a concerted effort to make their lives fucking hell all over the country. If I had a crack at talking to cVeigh before his shit, I would have said something like "Are there like about 100 people iike you that you can get ahold of ?" See, if that happened there would have been an explosion, in fact 48 of them, all at the same time at a federal building in each state. That would show the regime that we got solidarity, unity and organization. I would have have set all the bombs to go off at zero hours, simultaneously based on Ruby Ridge time, what is that PST ? Whatever it is, talk about another shot heard around the world. See that sends a message not only to the regime, but to the People. That would gain us more members as it would fight the apathy. As it is people are afraid to join because they know they will be targeted and have not seen any positive results, except a limited reprieve for Cliven Bundy and the fact that Randy Weaver beat the shit out of them in both criminal and civil court. I shouldn't even post shit like this because while physically I am no threat, sooner or later it is going to dawn on them that I have part of the plan that may become their undoing. If I ever disappear you know where I went. But if nobody says it it never gets done. It will probably not be in my lifetime anyway, but if I can plant a seed... T^T

Hillwilliam -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 7:59:10 AM)
Those guys are becoming the Al n Jesse of the militia movement.

Real0ne -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 8:11:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This is more like OWS than McVeigh. It is also the same tactic used in the 60's by both the civil rights and anti war movements. And what happened to OWS, nothing. Some 49+ bankers mysteriously committed suicide, and the IMF started dumping gold, and banking rules were forced to change, I'd say that OWS was extremely effective. They are bringing national attention to the matter, I do not see any standing in law to do what they are doing however.

BamaD -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 9:48:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This is more like OWS than McVeigh. It is also the same tactic used in the 60's by both the civil rights and anti war movements. And what happened to OWS, nothing. Some 49+ bankers mysteriously committed suicide, and the IMF started dumping gold, and banking rules were forced to change, I'd say that OWS was extremely effective. They are bringing national attention to the matter, I do not see any standing in law to do what they are doing however. I didn't say that I agree with their actions, I was just pointing out that the left has used these tactics routinly, and that far from being a threat to the nation they have been treated like heroes.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 10:19:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Bottom line, I like the idea of people standing up to ~~this goddamn regime~~ the Federal Government over Constitutional questions, but this is not the way to fight them. I like how that reads much better.

ifmaz -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 10:21:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata It might help to have some background. ... More at the link: http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/12/ranchers_fight_with_feds_spark.html K. Even more info @ http://www.vox.com/2016/1/3/10703712/oregon-militia-standoff

Lucylastic -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 11:18:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This is more like OWS than McVeigh. It is also the same tactic used in the 60's by both the civil rights and anti war movements. And what happened to OWS, nothing. I didn't say that I agree with their actions, I was just pointing out that the left has used these tactics routinly, and that far from being a threat to the nation they have been treated like heroes. When did the left arm themselves and take over a federal building? Can you imagine if a group of OWS had been armed, or BLM Or even a muslim group and taken over a fed building? When did the left forcibly (with arms) take over a federal building.

joether -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 12:12:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This is more like OWS than McVeigh. It is also the same tactic used in the 60's by both the civil rights and anti war movements. And what happened to OWS, nothing. I didn't say that I agree with their actions, I was just pointing out that the left has used these tactics routinly, and that far from being a threat to the nation they have been treated like heroes. When did the left arm themselves and take over a federal building? Can you imagine if a group of OWS had been armed, or BLM Or even a muslim group and taken over a fed building? When did the left forcibly (with arms) take over a federal building. Just to add on to what Lucy was stating to make the overall question even more pronounced.... If one of these groups, behaving in a threatening manner and making demands to force the US Government to capitulate to their whims; would conservative want them taken down? OH FUCK YEAH! Which is why this group can tell itself all it wants that they are not terrorists. They are terrorists. They are thugs with guns. They took over a location that is not directly their property. They are spoiling for a fight with the US Government. Their 'protest' is absurd since the individuals were found guilty in a court of law. The best solution these guys can hope for is 'breaking and entering' and a pile of other serious felony charges. Its basically puts them away behind prison for a decade or two; after that, they are never allowed to legally own firearms. At worst they decided to become stupid and try for another Ruby Ridge or Waco, TX moment. In which case the US Government should just pass Posse Comatitus and tell the US Army: "We want that property back minus the terrorists". See how well those morons with their assault rifles, shotguns and personal body armor stack up against a company of M-1 Abrams, a flight of A-10 Warthogs, and perhaps a battalion of Rangers. Encircle the area and secure it. Then just let artillery pound the area into craters and rumble. That way conservatives can have a nice 'wake up call' to what happens when they place US Citizen lives at risk and annoy the US Government. If this is not crossing the line between 'legal use of the 2nd amendment', then the very next stunt by these wackos will! At least they did this action just before President Obama is set to give new details on gun control in the State of the Union address coming up. These morons just give the President and example of "What happens when the 2nd amendment is allowed to be abused by individuals that justify threatening and killing US Citizens to achieve their own political agendas". That's just more moderates swinging over to the liberal side..... What is really sad/amusing is that termie, bamad and others are not realizing this group is screwing with their gun rights in a much more major way than anything the Left could do in a year! Because 'honest and law abiding' citizens with guns....DO NOT....break laws! If conservatives were intelligent, they would be just as 'up in arms' over this as everyone else in the nation. But their conservative media is already hard at work spinning the bullshit so as to never let conservatives think on the facts clearly.

Phydeaux -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 12:14:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD This is more like OWS than McVeigh. It is also the same tactic used in the 60's by both the civil rights and anti war movements. And what happened to OWS, nothing. I didn't say that I agree with their actions, I was just pointing out that the left has used these tactics routinly, and that far from being a threat to the nation they have been treated like heroes. When did the left arm themselves and take over a federal building? Can you imagine if a group of OWS had been armed, or BLM Or even a muslim group and taken over a fed building? When did the left forcibly (with arms) take over a federal building. Just curious. So you're ok with them taking over the building as long as they don't have weapons is that right?

Lucylastic -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 12:16:36 PM)
again you dont have the literacy skills to realise I said nothing of the kind.

Phydeaux -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 12:22:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether At worst they decided to become stupid and try for another Ruby Ridge or Waco, TX moment. In which case the US Government should just pass Posse Comatitus and tell the US Army: "We want that property back minus the terrorists". Wow. You really are an idiot. You really don't realize the passe comitatus act was passed to prevent the army from being used for domestic law enforcement.....

Phydeaux -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 12:24:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic again you dont have the literacy skills to realise I said nothing of the kind. Oh! So you're okay with BLM occupying university buildings, and OWS occupying wall street, and the Rainbow coalition occupying bank offices.. just not right wing groups doing the same thing.... See because I can post out more than a dozen posts where you've spoken laudatorily of these groups without a shread of condemnation from you.

bounty44 -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 1:24:05 PM)
I haven't paid much attention to this, but after-effects aside for a moment, at its core, wasn't this originally about the tension between private usage on public/federal land?

Phydeaux -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 1:44:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 I haven't paid much attention to this, but after-effects aside for a moment, at its core, wasn't this originally about the tension between private usage on public/federal land? I don't think so. And the original judge in the case doesn't think so. Its about a guy who cleared public land for his own purposes (and getting sentenced to one year) being tried under terrorism statutes and being sentenced to what is more or less a life sentence. It seems heavy handed and cruel and unusual to try these people under terrorism statutes.

Lucylastic -> RE: Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters (1/3/2016 2:57:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic again you dont have the literacy skills to realise I said nothing of the kind. Oh! So you're okay with BLM occupying university buildings, and OWS occupying wall street, and the Rainbow coalition occupying bank offices.. just not right wing groups doing the same thing.... See because I can post out more than a dozen posts where you've spoken laudatorily of these groups without a shread of condemnation from you. Once again, please show me where I said ANYTHING like that? BUT where hasANY LEFTIST GROUP TAKEN OVER A FEDERAL BUILDING ARMED . laudatorily??? Bloody hell you really do seem to have an imagination and a lot of bullshit exaggeration problems with stuff you think you read? fuck off.

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