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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/11/2016 7:03:26 AM   
DominantWrestler


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Prove that the ruling saudi family has given aid to terrorist. Back up your fuckwas assumption for once. Give a couple of cites. I provided a link that said that they haven't.



How about we take the word of the Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister? :
"Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister said on Saturday that his country would continue to support Syrian rebels if President Bashar al-Assad could not be removed through a political process.

“We will support the Syrian people,” Adel al-Jubeir told journalists on the sidelines of international Syria peace talks in Vienna.

“We will support the political process that will result in (Assad) leaving, or we will continue to support the Syrian opposition in order to remove him by force.”

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/11/14/Saudi-Arabia-to-continue-support-Syrian-rebels-if-Assad-does-not-leave.html

Saudi support for anti-Assad terrorists such as IS and (AQ affiliate) Nusra Front is not only beyond doubt, it is the official policy of the nation according to its Foreign Minister. Your refusal to accept the obvious truth that the Saudis arm and finance terrorists in Syria, Yemen and where ever else it pleases them tells us that you choose false ideologically inspired claims over the truth every time, as you have been demonstrating clearly on this and other concurrent threads.

The only effect of your choice to promote ideological claims over reality is the destruction of your own credibility - that is, the tiny bit of credibility you have left after the sustained havoc you have inflicted on your own credibility in this and other ME-related threads.


Going to play a little devils advocate here.
First off Id like to say that Israel, Saudi, Iran and the USA have committed acts that could be considered terrorism. A lot of it comes down to how high up in the chain of command people know exactly what is happening on the ground. Which given the need for plausible deniability, often avoids the top echelons. So even if Saudi or Iran or Israel is responsible for an act based on foreign policy and a number of actors within a government, it's very difficult to point fingers and say these 5 higher ups in a particular government are responsible. Otherwise the CIA would be shutdown over night.

As for Saudi support of Syrian people, just because a group are rebels doesn't mean they are terrorists. To assume so would be to call Reagan a terrorist supporter.

Much of these rebellious groups originated during the Arab Spring when protesters were assaulted with chemical weapons, which are against the Geneva convention, by Assad. Basically, to put in republican talking points, Assad used a Weapon of Mass Destruction on protesters exercising their freedom of speech. Now republicans like WMDs? What's that? Republicans didn't lie about that to start a war. You mean someone in the Middle East actually has WMD and used them against people speaking out against their government? Well we should probably support Assad because he knows how to exercise military might against those freedom fry eating dissenters who warned against torture and unnecessary Middle East wars, I mean Syrian Rebels. Don't forget one of the largest traders with ISIS is the Syrian government

Basically it comes down to republicans, by supporting Assad, are for WMDs, for Russia, for Iran and for terrorists while being against free speech. I could have sworn they were all about that Cold War propaganda a year ago and hated Iran for the hundreds of nukes Obama just handed them, only to support both militarily. Tell me how that's not hypocritical

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/11/2016 4:09:43 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Prove that the ruling saudi family has given aid to terrorist. Back up your fuckwas assumption for once. Give a couple of cites. I provided a link that said that they haven't.

Or just admit you're talking out your ass.


You provided fuck all, except a piece about the Yemen.

I note that you failed, and not unexpectedly so, to back up your bullshit claim about the rise in the number of madrassas from 3 to 11,000 under Clinton.

as for a link, read it and weep.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=20030726&id=UvMeAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EoUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6843,1189032&hl=en

No doubt you will get back to me and mention how the most dominant leadership in the middle east were unable to stop , and ignorant of, terrorists being funded with Saudi money. Either that or tell me they had no clue as to what was happening with money they provided to Wahhibist linked charities.



(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/11/2016 4:44:17 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Prove that the ruling saudi family has given aid to terrorist. Back up your fuckwas assumption for once. Give a couple of cites. I provided a link that said that they haven't.

Or just admit you're talking out your ass.


You provided fuck all, except a piece about the Yemen.

I note that you failed, and not unexpectedly so, to back up your bullshit claim about the rise in the number of madrassas from 3 to 11,000 under Clinton.

as for a link, read it and weep.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=20030726&id=UvMeAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EoUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6843,1189032&hl=en

No doubt you will get back to me and mention how the most dominant leadership in the middle east were unable to stop , and ignorant of, terrorists being funded with Saudi money. Either that or tell me they had no clue as to what was happening with money they provided to Wahhibist linked charities.






Polite - I'm well familiar with that report. When the 28 page section that has been redacted is released, or when someone goes on the record - I am more than happy to revise my opinion.

But I have followed this particular thread pretty closely - in fact, I"m far more critical of some elements than you are. For example - why did the US government give warning to one of the Saudi princes, allowing him to flee the country after the 9/11 attacks.

But despite my fairly diligent searching on this, I have never found anything backing up the allegations. Unlike many, I'm not willing to state the Saudi's bankrolled terrorism against us without evidence.



(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/11/2016 5:11:06 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

Which members of the Bush family was it that visited the Saudi ruling family the year before the second bush took office? Seriously, Iran and Saudi Arabia have funded terrorism and proxy wars, the only question is if they intentionally funded anti west terrorism. The only reason we support Saudi and Israel is because they are kind of allies in the region. If we get Iran to also sort of support us we will be playing the Middle East scenario from multiple sides with some of the biggest regional powers on our side. That, if united together, could be an immense force of good if they concentrate on Isis and not tensions between each other. Too bad Israel and Saudi don't want to play ball with Iran



well by my calculations we could all retire with a cool mil n change!

U.S. to Provide $419 Million in Additional Humanitarian Aid for Syrians


United States of America/Population 318.9 million (2014)

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/11/2016 5:18:18 PM   
Phydeaux


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The figure of 11000 madrassas over the 8 year period was from a speech I gave in 2002, and another in 2006. I'll see if I can find the end notes for you.

In the mean time, let me give you some facts and figures I have to hand:


http://www.pewforum.org/2005/05/03/the-global-spread-of-wahhabi-islam-how-great-a-threat/

Now, the Faustian bargain that Luis was referring to is what George Shultz – co-chairman with me of the Committee on the Present Danger and a not a man easily given to overstatement – calls a grotesque protection racket. And what I meant by the Faustian bargain is that in the 1970s, particularly by 1979, two things happened on the Arabian Peninsula.

The House of Saud became very, very wealthy and very, very frightened – wealthy because of the huge spike in oil prices by the end of the decade, taking them from a couple of billion dollars a year in foreign earnings to 20 billion dollars, and frightened because of two events: the fall of the Shah and the coming to power of Islamists to govern in Tehran among the hated Shiites, and the takeover attempt in Saudi Arabia, which was really a coup attempt that resulted in the takeover of the great mosque in Mecca by Islamist terrorists for a time.

The deal that I believe was struck, whether implicitly or explicitly who can say, was for the Wahhabis to be given all of the money in the world they could ever remotely dream of needing or wanting to spread their sect’s beliefs and for them to leave the House of Saud alone. The effect over the last 30 years, at least according to Alexei Alexiev, is that some 85 to 90 billion dollars – that is “billion” with a B – have been spent fostering and spreading Wahhabism in the world – totals that would have been a dream to the Comintern a generation before. You see it in the “madrassas,” or schools, of Pakistan and in the literature that Paul and Nina described in the Freedom House publication. It is there and really rather obvious.

From http://www.islamdaily.org/en/wahabism/5807.saudi-arabia-wahhabism-and-the-spread-of-sunni-the.htm
quote:


The Saudi royal family revoked bin Laden's Saudi citizenship (in response to heavy American pressure), but did little to interfere with Wahhabi "charities" in the kingdom and abroad. These entities raised money for al-Qaida, while the religious onslaught of Wahhabism continued to receive government sponsorship and funding. Osama bin Laden is widely believed to have reached an agreement with Prince Turki al-Faisal, then-chief of Saudi National Security and Intelligence in the mid 1990s, whereby al-Qaida would not target the kingdom, and the kingdom would not interfere with al-Qaida's fundraising or seek bin Laden's extradition. In fact, al-Qaida abstained completely from attacks on Saudi targets within the kingdom prior to 9-11.

Terrorist attacks and clashes between Saudi police and Islamist militants have erupted periodically since May 2003, after the Saudi Government began cracking down on underground cells in the kingdom (under pressure from Washington). However, it appears that most al-Qaida-affiliated terrorist groups still respect this quid pro quo: hundreds of members of the Saudi royal family jet around the world without fear of assassination. The country's vulnerable petroleum industry has only once been targeted by terrorists, and then in a less that serious manner.


And from http://theweek.com/articles/570297/how-saudi-arabia-exports-radical-islam
quote:

To combat the spread of Shiite Islam and ensure that the Islamic world is primarily Sunni. In recent years, the ancient Sunni-Shiite conflict in Iraq, Yemen, and throughout the Middle East has grown more overt, bitter, and violent. Now that Iran has agreed to rein in its nuclear program in return for the lifting of international economic sanctions, Riyadh fears a newly enriched Tehran will be more aggressive in spreading its Shiite doctrine and promoting Shiite-led revolutions. A trove of Saudi diplomatic documents covering 2010 to 2015, recently released by WikiLeaks, shows a Saudi obsession with Iranian actions and Iranian influence. Saudi government agencies monitor Iranian cultural and religious activities, and try to muzzle Shiite influence by shutting down or blocking access to Iranian-backed media. Saudi diplomats keep close tabs on Iranian involvement everywhere, from Tajikistan, which has strong historical Persian ties, to China, where the tiny, beleaguered Uighur population — which is Muslim — is growing more religious.

How do the Saudis promote their religious views?
By investing heavily in building mosques, madrasas, schools, and Sunni cultural centers across the Muslim world. Indian intelligence says that in India alone, from 2011 to 2013, some 25,000 Saudi clerics arrived bearing more than $250 million to build mosques and universities and hold seminars. "We are talking about thousands and thousands of activist organizations and preachers who are in the Saudi sphere of influence," said Usama Hasan, a researcher in Islamic studies. These institutions and clerics preach the specifically Saudi version of Sunni Islam, the extreme fundamentalist strain known as Wahhabism or Salafism.


So while this certainly doesn't give direct support to the number or time frame I said, it does point out that it is at least possible.
The Saudis sent 25,000 clerics to build madrassa in India alone between 2011 and 2013.

From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/02/01/DI2007020101782.html

Khalid al-Dakhil: Well, I would say that the influence of the Wahhabi ideology on the foreign policy of the Saudi state is very limited. It should be recalled that the Saudi relations with the U.S. ( a Christian nation) are more than 70 years old -- it was an alliance forged by the founding father of Saudi Arabia. In other words, this relationship started during the time the Saudi society was most conservative, and closer to the Wahhabi society of the 19th century. The power of the Wahhabi establishment then was at its peak, and yet there was no problem. The problem started after the 1980s, and specifically after the war to liberate Afghanistan from the Soviet occupation.

In the Saudi state there is a clear distinction between the realm of religion, where the ulama are accorded a wide leeway, and the realm of politics, where the ruler is given a free hand to run the affairs of the state. So the Saudi government can co-opt or undercut the Iranians in Iraq without having to answer to the Wahhabi clerics. It's a matter of the political interests of the state, and the clerics. And remember that the Saudi role in the events in Iraq since the American invasion has been limited not because of the Wahhabis but because of the Bush administration.


All three of these links support the idea that wahhabism had explosive growth, triggered by islamacists almost getting control of the main mosque in SA. All of them agree that part of the saudi's fear was overthrow, and another part was the rise in shi-ite ideology caused by the overthrow of the shah of Iran. All of them point to the US being a security patron - and your links as well as mind suggest that the Saudi's have been generally helpful in providing intel to the US.


Our positions are actually fairly close, differing (really) only in the idea that I believe the Sauds have legalistically been very careful not to fund terroism against the us.

On the other hand -

1. I do believe the saudi's are exporting an extreme form of wahhabism.
2. That wahabbism contributes to the rise of hate, and huges numbers of jihadi's willing to fight for militant islam.
3. I do believe that many of the groups the sauds fund -do commit terroism.

4. I do believe that the spread of virulent wahhabism is rapidly getting to a breaking point - something we should have caught years ago.
5. Historically, the Iranian brand of hatred has been slightly less virulent than the Iranian kind.
6. I do believe that individual saudis, companies and charities have committed acts of terrorism against the US.



(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/11/2016 5:27:03 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Pardon if I wassn't sufficiently precise for a low IQ person to make out what I was talking about.


It is not a matter of low iq but rather that you tend to speak gibberish.



I was referring to the Iranian side of the ledger - where literally no facts were presented - so I quickly gave more than 6 cases Occupy London left out. It was factless, so I provided some.

You really ought to get a grown up to explane the difference between opinion and fact.


For example. Was the US in Korean in 1950-1953. Of course it was

To preserve it's supply of tungsten.


- as were dozens of nations fighting on the side of South Korea under the auspices of the UN.

No there were not. there were only 16 four of which were in the britt comonwealth and the usa was the major contributor of troops and equipment. There were five other nations who refused to send any troops but did supply field hospitals.

http://korean-war.commemoration.gov.au/armed-forces-in-korea/united-nations-forces-in-the-korean-war.php

Is that accurately portrayed in the graphic?

Your assessment is hardly accurate.

Of course not. Because to do that would defeat the purpose of the picture, which is propoaganda to attack the united states.

Should honest discussion excuse anyone from inconvenient truths?



Does it speak of Iran's assasination of its own citizens? Its murdering of its liberals? Of course not.

Does not the usa murder it's liberals???I am pretty sure kennedy and martin luther king were liberals.

Does it say that the US kicked Sadam Hussein out of Kuwait in 1991?

Kuait is part of iraq. Only a dumbass would be ignorant of that fact.


Does it say that the US involvement in the Philipines was to pressure marcos, who seized power, to hold elections - which he lost? Of course not.

The history books will attest to the fact that the usa took over the phillippines in the 1800's

So, in truth it is a bunch of lies, half lies, innuendo with a few truths in it intended to discredit the US. Overall, its a inaccurate piece of garbage.

The inaccurate garbage is the tripe you have posted.

But thanks for the opportunity to come back and discredit it even more.


You seem to take every opportunity to expound on your ignorance and stupidity.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/11/2016 6:23:42 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Kuait is part of iraq. Only a dumbass would be ignorant of that fact.




Seems Google disagrees with you.




Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/12/2016 7:16:34 AM   
padrepedro


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I say that we should encourage all Muslim nations to fight each other and pretend to be friends with each one and supply them with arms. Then we sort out and exterminate what is left of the heathen devil worshippers.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/12/2016 1:34:07 PM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Kuait is part of iraq. Only a dumbass would be ignorant of that fact.




Seems Google disagrees with you.





it might be wrong to kick a man when he's down, but if I end up putting "Kuwait is a part of Iraq" as my signature, then you know ive given in to temptation.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/12/2016 5:01:15 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Kuait is part of iraq. Only a dumbass would be ignorant of that fact.




Seems Google disagrees with you.



Eh? I've just googled the phrase 'kuwait part of iraq'. The very first result was a site that claims that, throughout the 19th Century and till WW1 at least, Kuwait was 'an integral part of Iraq'. It then goes on to claim that the 'border' was imposed and was contentious thereafter.

http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/iraqkuwait.html


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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/12/2016 5:54:51 PM   
DominantWrestler


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quote:

ORIGINAL: padrepedro

I say that we should encourage all Muslim nations to fight each other and pretend to be friends with each one and supply them with arms. Then we sort out and exterminate what is left of the heathen devil worshippers.


Considering your heathen devil worshipper comment, would it be accurate of me to assume you have a religious affiliation? And if so, which?

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/12/2016 9:08:02 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Kuait is part of iraq. Only a dumbass would be ignorant of that fact.




Seems Google disagrees with you.



Eh? I've just googled the phrase 'kuwait part of iraq'. The very first result was a site that claims that, throughout the 19th Century and till WW1 at least, Kuwait was 'an integral part of Iraq'. It then goes on to claim that the 'border' was imposed and was contentious thereafter.

http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/iraqkuwait.html



apparently you, like Bill Clinton is not cognizant of the meaning of *is*.

Kuwait WAS an independent country dating back as far back as the 1600s. And was substantially independent for hundreds of years.

Regardless of the history of it - Kuwait *is not* part of Iraq. Again - as google earth attests. Look at the pretty pictures.

And Wiki is a lot less biased than the site you sourced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kuwait


< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 1/12/2016 9:16:44 PM >

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/12/2016 11:11:10 PM   
MariaB


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The thing about Wiki is, its so often incorrect.

http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/iraqkuwait.html

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/12/2016 11:49:48 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The thing about Wiki is, its so often incorrect.

http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/iraqkuwait.html


And the thing about Random internet posts.. they are too.

http://www.da.gov.kw/eng/picsandevents/
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/kuwait/history
http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/spring06/eisa/history.htm



Hint: You might think that a title such as
quote:

Mechanisms of Western Domination: A Short History of Iraq and Kuwait
might not be the most unbiased source. But then objective information isn't really your forte, is it.

Who is David Klein? Oh yeah. A BDS sponsor at Cal Northridge. Who broke the rules of CSun to post BDS information on CSUN servers.


< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 1/12/2016 11:56:00 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/13/2016 2:48:46 AM   
MariaB


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Says the man who gave us a Wiki link.

Let me tell you how reliable Wikipedia is; We are friends with someone who is a well known singer and song writer. When it came to his attention there was a Wiki page about him, he perused it for accuracy. His place of birth was incorrect and so were numerous other things so he went in to edit. The following day the article had gone back into its original format so he wrote to a moderator on Wikipedia and explained that he was the 'singer songwriter' in the article and was consequently blocked.

Anyone can make a Wiki page and the truth, as we witnessed with our friend, can't always be edited and therefore its a very unreliable source.

Now talking of unbiased sources, it often depends where your own biases lay as to what you're going to want to find. French articles on WW2 for example will tell me the French won the war; .govuk articles will tell me Kuwait was independent for thousands of years and so will numerous books about the 1991 Gulf War. There's other sources of information though and its information that's either not picked up because a journalist holds a firm bias or because if you are lied to about something long enough you believe it.

Perhaps you could tell us all where to get clear, accurate and unbiased history?

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/13/2016 3:47:31 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Kuait is part of iraq. Only a dumbass would be ignorant of that fact.

apparently you, like Bill Clinton is not cognizant of the meaning of *is*.

Only a moron would be less than cognizant of the meaning of "is" it only takes up about a column in any paper and print dictionary.

Kuwait WAS an independent country dating back as far back as the 1600s. And was substantially independent for hundreds of years.

Would you apply that same sort of logic to poland,mexico,viet nam, n/s korea?

Regardless of the history of it - Kuwait *is not* part of Iraq.


This would be your ignorant,unsubstantiated peurile opinion and nothing more.

Again - as google earth attests. Look at the pretty pictures.


You seem to like pretty pictures as opposed to facts.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/13/2016 9:44:57 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Says the man who gave us a Wiki link.

Let me tell you how reliable Wikipedia is; We are friends with someone who is a well known singer and song writer. When it came to his attention there was a Wiki page about him, he perused it for accuracy. His place of birth was incorrect and so were numerous other things so he went in to edit. The following day the article had gone back into its original format so he wrote to a moderator on Wikipedia and explained that he was the 'singer songwriter' in the article and was consequently blocked.

Anyone can make a Wiki page and the truth, as we witnessed with our friend, can't always be edited and therefore its a very unreliable source.

Now talking of unbiased sources, it often depends where your own biases lay as to what you're going to want to find. French articles on WW2 for example will tell me the French won the war; .govuk articles will tell me Kuwait was independent for thousands of years and so will numerous books about the 1991 Gulf War. There's other sources of information though and its information that's either not picked up because a journalist holds a firm bias or because if you are lied to about something long enough you believe it.

Perhaps you could tell us all where to get clear, accurate and unbiased history?


This really is too ripe.

I provided you 3 links - all of which more or less confirm the WikiLeaks history. As for where to get clearer less biased information - I suggest leaving left wing echo chambers.

But you're really not interested in-unbiased history. If you were, you wouldn' have resposted a counter factual from a left wing BDS proponent.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 1/13/2016 10:04:46 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/13/2016 10:17:55 AM   
DominantWrestler


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Says the man who gave us a Wiki link.

Let me tell you how reliable Wikipedia is; We are friends with someone who is a well known singer and song writer. When it came to his attention there was a Wiki page about him, he perused it for accuracy. His place of birth was incorrect and so were numerous other things so he went in to edit. The following day the article had gone back into its original format so he wrote to a moderator on Wikipedia and explained that he was the 'singer songwriter' in the article and was consequently blocked.

Anyone can make a Wiki page and the truth, as we witnessed with our friend, can't always be edited and therefore its a very unreliable source.

Now talking of unbiased sources, it often depends where your own biases lay as to what you're going to want to find. French articles on WW2 for example will tell me the French won the war; .govuk articles will tell me Kuwait was independent for thousands of years and so will numerous books about the 1991 Gulf War. There's other sources of information though and its information that's either not picked up because a journalist holds a firm bias or because if you are lied to about something long enough you believe it.

Perhaps you could tell us all where to get clear, accurate and unbiased history?


This really is too ripe.

I provided you 3 links - all of which more or less confirm the WikiLeaks history. As for where to get clearer less biased information - I suggest leaving left wing echo chambers.

But you're really not interested in-unbiased history. If you were, you wouldn' have resposted a counter factual from a left wing BDS proponent.


For what, a right wing echo chamber? Do you have an empty room where you go to talk to yourself? You don't even fully read half the shit you post here or you wouldn't choose such easily exploitable links

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RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/13/2016 11:56:32 AM   
Phydeaux


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Easily exploitable hmm?

Let's test your idiotic assertion shall we?
Quote me something from one of those the links. . Since you don't like wiki. . That says Kuwait is currently part of iraq...

I read every link I post.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Saudi and Iran - 1/13/2016 12:59:09 PM   
DominantWrestler


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Lmao, was I arguing geography with you? No.

No, your link when you were characterizing the drop in employer based health care was exploitable. The rest of your links are mostly right wing blogs. When you go to the host site for your links and every article is a republican talking point, making an educated guess that the site is biased is probably accurate

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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