RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control

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joether -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 11:39:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic im just aching to see the results of this, with all the ignorance on this thread. Im entertained so far so fun After my 'short' post, I doubt you'll have to wait long. The gun nuts on here will simple quote the entire post and give a one or two sentence rebuttal that is flimsy, silly, and 'junior high school maturity'. Their best argument is "Fuck off, I like guns". CNN has some good graphs. I like the last graph. Its how active shooting have ended. 3.1% by some 'honest and law abiding' non-'law enforcement' person with a gun. Just above that, an unarmed person was four times more likely to end such an encounter. Nearly tens times that amount by "A well regulated militia...". And nearly thirteen times that 3.1%, by the active shooter whom is a "Honest and Law Abiding Person with a Firearm'. Since in our form of government and law, a suspect is considered 'innocent until proven guilty' in a court of law. Either by their own admonition to the charges and pleading guilty; or found guilty by a jury of their peers.

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 11:40:32 AM)
so ya grabbing ya gun and joining another "armed" insurrection against the government? just askin....

Charles6682 -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 11:43:00 AM)
Its about time

BamaD -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 11:47:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: But if Obama fail, then, it just means, the second amendment is as literally as it is, which is good to know. This has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment... this is not taking guns away or limiting their right to own. This is simply regulation of guns that has been done for many years with the approval of the courts... nothing new in the law... Opposition will only come from the crazies who will try to use it politically and this will fail, I believe it will anyway, because many Americans want stronger regulation of weapons. Butch Talk about absurd, any regulation on anything is limiting whatever it regulates. What is a law, BamaD? Its a regulation. The 2nd amendment, is a law. Therefore, by logic, it is a regulation. You are against regulations; therefore, if using logic, your against the existence of the 2nd amendment. Care to advance your pathetic argument past a 4th grade level? Simple the Constitution regulates (limits) government, not the people. I don't opposse all regulations. A regulation that doesn't allow people to drive 150 miles an hour is good, but in spite of what your people claim it does limit the use of an automobile. Here we don't have a law prohibiting fireing a firearm in the city limits, but if you do without a good reason they get you for reckless endangerment. It limits your actions but with good reason. The Miller case that you guys want to lean on says that people are only covered for weapons with a military aplication. You want to go back to full auto weapons on the open market? You should realize also that Miller had "disapeared" prior to the case reaching the supreme court so only the governments side was presented. It is the only real exception to the right to bear arms, unless you want to count the rulling that said in effect that racist could confiscate the firearms of blacks so they couldn't defend themselves against the Klan. The whole history of the 2nd ammendment as well as the statements of the people who wrote it say Heller was right on.

joether -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 11:51:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub There is a story in the St. Louis Post today that shows an FBI report on how weapons used in crime were obtained... It turns out 2/3's of the weapons were legally purchased from unlicensed gun dealers either privately or from gun shows... This loop hole is what Obama wants to close... now how is this limiting your right to purchase a gun? ....because the ones selling guns are unscrupulous people do not care about what happens down the road as long as they get money? The ones buying guns would normally be barred from obtaining them due to existing reasons. Reasons like being found unstable mentally and/or emotionally, raping others, spousal abuse, threatening people in the community, highly prone to 'anger management issues' / 'road rage'. By the President's action, it makes it harder for criminal types to obtain firearms through legal means. That has the added effect of raising black market prices on guns. Less guns falling into that system, thus, creating less supply, with as normal demand creates higher prices for firearms on the black market. So long as this remains in effect, that supply will become less and less, and thus, the price on the black market growing each year. Using logic, over time, criminals will break into houses that most likely have guns, and sell them rather than TVs and computers (easier to move and sell without drawing attention). How will those criminals know whose house to break into? The ones with NRA stickers on their cars and trucks! Those opposing the President want criminals and terrorists to have as easy a time as possible to get guns.

BamaD -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 11:55:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub There is a story in the St. Louis Post today that shows an FBI report on how weapons used in crime were obtained... It turns out 2/3's of the weapons were legally purchased from unlicensed gun dealers either privately or from gun shows... This loop hole is what Obama wants to close... now how is this limiting your right to purchase a gun? ....because the ones selling guns are unscrupulous people do not care about what happens down the road as long as they get money? The ones buying guns would normally be barred from obtaining them due to existing reasons. Reasons like being found unstable mentally and/or emotionally, raping others, spousal abuse, threatening people in the community, highly prone to 'anger management issues' / 'road rage'. By the President's action, it makes it harder for criminal types to obtain firearms through legal means. That has the added effect of raising black market prices on guns. Less guns falling into that system, thus, creating less supply, with as normal demand creates higher prices for firearms on the black market. So long as this remains in effect, that supply will become less and less, and thus, the price on the black market growing each year. Using logic, over time, criminals will break into houses that most likely have guns, and sell them rather than TVs and computers (easier to move and sell without drawing attention). How will those criminals know whose house to break into? The ones with NRA stickers on their cars and trucks! Those opposing the President want criminals and terrorists to have as easy a time as possible to get guns. I will only comment on your last line. STUPID

joether -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:05:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: But if Obama fail, then, it just means, the second amendment is as literally as it is, which is good to know. This has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment... this is not taking guns away or limiting their right to own. This is simply regulation of guns that has been done for many years with the approval of the courts... nothing new in the law... Opposition will only come from the crazies who will try to use it politically and this will fail, I believe it will anyway, because many Americans want stronger regulation of weapons. Butch Talk about absurd, any regulation on anything is limiting whatever it regulates. What is a law, BamaD? Its a regulation. The 2nd amendment, is a law. Therefore, by logic, it is a regulation. You are against regulations; therefore, if using logic, your against the existence of the 2nd amendment. Care to advance your pathetic argument past a 4th grade level? Simple the Constitution regulates (limits) government, not the people. What is the US Constitution, BamaD? A set of laws. What is a law? A regulation. Actually, the US Constitution was created to handle two very important concepts: 1 ) Defining the Government's power over all those found within its domain of control. 2 ) Defining the Government's limit on power over all those found within its domain of control. The people, are just as limited as the government. You do not have an unlimited right on anything. Each of the amendments have their exceptions. That implies the 2nd as well. But thanks to corporate money, unscrupulous people, and a massive number of conservative 'low information voters', the 2nd has been corrupted. Should we be at all surprise by what would follow? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I don't opposse all regulations. We are not dealing with all the regulations, just those pertaining to the topic. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD A regulation that doesn't allow people to drive 150 miles an hour is good, but in spite of what your people claim it does limit the use of an automobile. Why were speed limits created back in the day? To conserve on gas consumption. Later, after using science in many tests, did we find that physics really does apply to cars. That it is easier to slow and stop at a low speed rather than a high one. Now, if only the penalty for breaking a law applied to one's gross income rate rather then a standardized amount; we'd have less rich people breaking the rules of the road. Of course, there would be a minimal level of penalty. I believe it is Montana that does not have a speed limit on their high ways. If firearms wee handled the same way as automobiles, would we have as much destruction with them as current? quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Here we don't have a law prohibiting fireing a firearm in the city limits, but if you do without a good reason they get you for reckless endangerment. Go figure, non firearm citizens have as much right to how firearms are used as the owners of firearms. If you fire a gun in certain areas and do not have a REALLY good reason (i.e. self defense), your taken to the court to have a judge decide things. Even on self defense, the person is investigated to determine if the action was self defense or not.

lovmuffin -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:09:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic so ya grabbing ya gun and joining another "armed" insurrection against the government? just askin.... What prompted you to ask me that ? Yeah, I'm a lookin. I'm a gittin bored since the last armed insurrection I was in [8\|]

KenDckey -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:12:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic here is the actual proposals for all those running around doing their chicken little impressions On Jan. 5, 2016, President Obama unveiled his new strategy to curb gun violence in America. His proposals focus on new background check requirements that will enhance the effectiveness of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and greater education and enforcement efforts of existing laws at the state level. As more information becomes available, this document will be updated. The 2015 plan: Directs the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to require any business that engages in the sale of guns to obtain a federal license to do so and conduct background checks. This requirement applies to gun stores, sellers of guns at gun shows, and sellers of guns over the Internet. The licensing requirement applies to all sellers “engaged in the business” of selling guns, regardless of how frequent or how many sales there are. Failure to obtain a license to sell will carry criminal penalties of up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000. Failure to conduct a required background check will also carry penalties. Requires the ATF Bureau to issue a rule requiring background checks for purchasers of certain dangerous firearms and other items who purchase them through a trust, corporation or other legal entity. It will also issue a rule clarifying that gun dealers/licensees who ship firearms have the responsibility to notify law enforcement if their guns are lost or stolen in transit. Encourages greater communications between federal and state authorities on criminal history information. The Obama administration seeks to increase the dialog with states to ensure the background check system is as comprehensive as it can be. Instructs the FBI to overhaul the background check system to make it more efficient and accurate. Improvements include increasing personnel by 50 percent, modernize NICS to allow for background checks to be processed 24/7 and permit better notification of state and local authorities when certain prohibited persons attempt to buy a gun. Calls for increased funding to ATF for the hiring of 200 new ATF agents and investigators to help enforce existing gun laws. ATF is also directed to establish an Internet Investigation Center with dedicated personnel to track illegal online firearms trafficking. The plan dedicates $4 million to and additional personnel to enhance the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network. Asks the attorney general to encourage federal U.S. attorneys to work with state and local authorities and groups to increase prevention of domestic violence and to prevent prohibited persons from obtaining firearms. Proposes a $500 million investment to increase access to mental health care by increasing service capacity and the behavioral health workforce. The Department of Health and Human Services will finalize a rule removing legal barriers preventing states from reporting relevant information about people prohibited from possessing a gun for specific mental health reasons. Requires inclusion of mental health information from the Social Security Administration (SSA) in the background check system about beneficiaries who are prohibited from possessing a firearm. To this end. SSA will issue a rule to ensure that this information is reported to NICS. This rule will also include a waiver provision available to people seeking relief from the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm because of mental health reasons. Further details will be available upon issuance of this rule. Directs the departments of Defense, Justice and Homeland Security to conduct or sponsor research into gun safety technology that would reduce the likelihood of accidental discharge or unauthorized use of a firearm. Requires that a strategy for real-world deployment of this technology be prepared within 90 days. Calls upon state attorneys general to focus resources on eliminating the most dangerous and impactful cases in illegal gun trafficking, and violent offenders who bypass the background check system and purchase guns illegally. Removes certain legal barriers preventing states from reporting information to NICS. HHS has been directed to clarify through a rule that certain Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act covered entities are permitted to provide limited demographic and other necessary information about people with mental illness who are prohibited from possessing a firearm to the NICS. Overview \| January 2013 Gun Proposal From President Obama President Obama has unveiled a plan to address gun violence in the nation. The initiative consists of 23 executive actions and three presidential memoranda, most of which will require congressional approval. Many parts of the plan may have significant effects on states. The plan: Requires background checks for all gun sales and strengthens the background check system. This would include removing barriers under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act so that states may more freely share information about mental health issues involving potential gun purchasers. Provides states with monetary incentives—$20 million in fiscal year FY 2013 and a proposed $50 million in FY 2014—to share information so that records on criminal history and people prohibited from gun ownership due to mental health reasons are more available. Bans military-style assault weapons and limits magazines to a capacity of 10 rounds. Provides additional tools to law enforcement. The plan proposes a crackdown on gun trafficking by asking Congress to pass legislation that closes “loopholes” in gun trafficking laws and establishes strict penalties for “straw purchasers” who pass a background check and then pass guns on to prohibited people. Urges Congress to pass the administration’s $4 billion proposal to keep 15,000 state and local police officers on the street to help deter gun crime. Maximizes efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime. The president calls upon the attorney general to work with U.S. attorneys across the country to determine gaps occurring in this area and where supplemental resources are appropriate. Provides training for “active shooter” situations to 14,000 law enforcement, first responders and school officials. Directs the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services to issue a statement to health care providers that they are not prohibited by federal law from reporting threats of violence to the proper authorities. Launches a national gun safety campaign to encourage responsible gun ownership and authorizes the Consumer Product Safety Commission to examine issues relating to gun safety locks. Helps schools invest in safety. The president’s plan calls for more school resource officers and counselors in all schools through the Community Oriented Policing Services hiring program. The plan also calls for the federal government to assist schools in developing emergency management plans. Improves mental health awareness through enhanced teacher training and referrals for treatment. The plan calls for the training of 5,000 additional mental health professionals nationwide. The plan also calls for coverage of mental health treatment under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008. Additional Resources Presidential Memorandum on Gun Technology President Obama’s Fact Sheet on Executive Actions to Curb Gun Violence in America Summary of New HIPAA Rule Text of New HIPAA Rule https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/05/memorandum-promoting-smart-gun-technology Doesn't say that Lucy. Andif you look at the EO, Memo's and Proclamations you won't see anything else.

joether -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:12:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub There is a story in the St. Louis Post today that shows an FBI report on how weapons used in crime were obtained... It turns out 2/3's of the weapons were legally purchased from unlicensed gun dealers either privately or from gun shows... This loop hole is what Obama wants to close... now how is this limiting your right to purchase a gun? ....because the ones selling guns are unscrupulous people do not care about what happens down the road as long as they get money? The ones buying guns would normally be barred from obtaining them due to existing reasons. Reasons like being found unstable mentally and/or emotionally, raping others, spousal abuse, threatening people in the community, highly prone to 'anger management issues' / 'road rage'. By the President's action, it makes it harder for criminal types to obtain firearms through legal means. That has the added effect of raising black market prices on guns. Less guns falling into that system, thus, creating less supply, with as normal demand creates higher prices for firearms on the black market. So long as this remains in effect, that supply will become less and less, and thus, the price on the black market growing each year. Using logic, over time, criminals will break into houses that most likely have guns, and sell them rather than TVs and computers (easier to move and sell without drawing attention). How will those criminals know whose house to break into? The ones with NRA stickers on their cars and trucks! Those opposing the President want criminals and terrorists to have as easy a time as possible to get guns. I will only comment on your last line. STUPID An yet, it is still true. Gun nuts oppose the President's action because it makes it harder on individuals looking to cause destruction and evil with a gun, from obtaining them. They want things to remain as they are now; thus, keeping it easy for criminal and terrorist types 'as easy' a chance of obtaining those arms. I would think you would be 'on board' with making it as tough if not impossible for criminals and terrorists to obtain firearms, let alone keep them.

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:15:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/05/memorandum-promoting-smart-gun-technology Doesn't say that Lucy. Andif you look at the EO, Memo's and Proclamations you won't see anything else. no but if you go to the link I posted in response to your last query on page three, you will see this I posted the text because I knew someone wouldnt follow the link. You are welcome. post 43 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4871334 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey Why aren't we allowed to see this supposed EO. It isn't written down anywhere. Not even on the white house web site. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions as of 0530 mountain standard time 1/5/16. Is he afraid to allow the people to read it? Because he said it doesn't make it a law. http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-and-criminal-justice/summary-president-obama-gun-proposals.aspx

mnottertail -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:16:05 PM)
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/04/fact-sheet-new-executive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our I would expect the eos will go thru many attorneys. they aint hit the web yet.

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:19:18 PM)
considering he only made the announcement today, and said it would be today (last week) why they would be anywhere yet, except the gov sites.

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:23:56 PM)
its already starting http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nra-tweets-image-bullets-pictures-lawmakers-article-1.2484861 Just four days before the fifth anniversary of the shooting of Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, the NRA targeted a pair of Brooklyn lawmakers Monday with a menacing image of bullets next to photos of the two gun control advocates. America’s 1st Freedom, an NRA publication, tweeted the image of state Sen. Roxanne Persaud and Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon, both Democrats, weeks after they announced legislation aimed at controlling the sale of ammunition. The two lawmakers and other local supporters — including Mayor de Blasio and Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams — condemned what came across as a veiled threat. [image]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2484859.1451932287!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/nra5n-1-web.jpg[/image] “I think it is irresponsible in the times that we are living in to place a target around someone,” Persaud told the Daily News. “By placing someone’s picture with bullets next to them you are playing on the fears of people.” EDITORIAL: DANGEROUS FIGHTING WORDS ON GUNS AND GUN CONTROL Persaud said the picture has “the potential to cause harm” because you don’t know if a psycho who is upset about the proposal will react to something like that. Democrat State Sen. Roxanne Persaud of Brooklyn is one of two lawmakers who announced the gun control bill last month. NYSENATE.GOV Democrat State Sen. Roxanne Persaud of Brooklyn is one of two lawmakers who announced the gun control bill last month. Simon agreed the photo was “irresponsible” and simply an attempt by the NRA to intimate her and stir up its gun-loving base. “They are clearly trying to be intimidating and it is not working,” Simon said. The organization showed its staunch opposition in a blog post to a bill the lawmakers announced last month limiting ammunition purchases over a 90-day period. “In truth, such legislation should simply be laughed off and quickly forgotten,” America’s 1st Freedom editor Mark Chesnut wrote. “Unfortunately, the anti-gun climate in New York requires that we all take it seriously. New York gun owners should make sure their representatives know how strongly they oppose this ridiculous assault on their rights.” A picture that was part of the tweet showed snapshots of the legislators surrounded by four bullets. Simon and Persaud said they have received threatening emails and tweets since they unveiled plans for the bill on Dec. 20 with Adams. more at the link, BUT this IS regarding NYs ammo bill not obamas.... the crazies are gettin ready....

mnottertail -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:25:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic considering he only made the announcement today, and said it would be today (last week) why they would be anywhere yet, except the gov sites. note that it said executive action in the fact sheet: http://uspolitics.about.com/od/Gun-Control/a/Executive-Actions-Versus-Executive-Orders.htm

BamaD -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:36:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub There is a story in the St. Louis Post today that shows an FBI report on how weapons used in crime were obtained... It turns out 2/3's of the weapons were legally purchased from unlicensed gun dealers either privately or from gun shows... This loop hole is what Obama wants to close... now how is this limiting your right to purchase a gun? ....because the ones selling guns are unscrupulous people do not care about what happens down the road as long as they get money? The ones buying guns would normally be barred from obtaining them due to existing reasons. Reasons like being found unstable mentally and/or emotionally, raping others, spousal abuse, threatening people in the community, highly prone to 'anger management issues' / 'road rage'. By the President's action, it makes it harder for criminal types to obtain firearms through legal means. That has the added effect of raising black market prices on guns. Less guns falling into that system, thus, creating less supply, with as normal demand creates higher prices for firearms on the black market. So long as this remains in effect, that supply will become less and less, and thus, the price on the black market growing each year. Using logic, over time, criminals will break into houses that most likely have guns, and sell them rather than TVs and computers (easier to move and sell without drawing attention). How will those criminals know whose house to break into? The ones with NRA stickers on their cars and trucks! Those opposing the President want criminals and terrorists to have as easy a time as possible to get guns. I will only comment on your last line. STUPID An yet, it is still true. Gun nuts oppose the President's action because it makes it harder on individuals looking to cause destruction and evil with a gun, from obtaining them. They want things to remain as they are now; thus, keeping it easy for criminal and terrorist types 'as easy' a chance of obtaining those arms. I would think you would be 'on board' with making it as tough if not impossible for criminals and terrorists to obtain firearms, let alone keep them. Gun rights people do not want to do evil with a gun, they want to protect themselves from evil. Your hatered of guns and gun owners has warped your thinking.

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:46:40 PM)
Gun rights people do not want to do evil with a gun, they want to protect themselves from evil. cept they see everyone as evil, except themselves. closing loopholes?? you poor babies. If Republicans don't know what's in the president's new gun policy, why do they hate it? And if the NRA considers Obama's measures irrelevant, why is the group considering a lawsuit?

BamaD -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 12:55:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Gun rights people do not want to do evil with a gun, they want to protect themselves from evil. cept they see everyone as evil, except themselves. closing loopholes?? you poor babies. If Republicans don't know what's in the president's new gun policy, why do they hate it? And if the NRA considers Obama's measures irrelevant, why is the group considering a lawsuit? Because he is trying to write and pass law, which is unconstitutional. I don't see you as evil, just dead wrong.

mnottertail -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 1:09:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Gun rights people do not want to do evil with a gun, they want to protect themselves from evil. cept they see everyone as evil, except themselves. closing loopholes?? you poor babies. If Republicans don't know what's in the president's new gun policy, why do they hate it? And if the NRA considers Obama's measures irrelevant, why is the group considering a lawsuit? Because he is trying to write and pass law, which is unconstitutional. I don't see you as evil, just dead wrong. Wayne LaPierre writes all the nutsucker gun laws, why would he sue himself, or are the nutsuckers finally getting a sack and going to sue the NRA? I missed something here.

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama enforcing Gun Control (1/5/2016 1:13:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Gun rights people do not want to do evil with a gun, they want to protect themselves from evil. cept they see everyone as evil, except themselves. closing loopholes?? you poor babies. If Republicans don't know what's in the president's new gun policy, why do they hate it? And if the NRA considers Obama's measures irrelevant, why is the group considering a lawsuit? Because he is trying to write and pass law, which is unconstitutional. I don't see you as evil, just dead wrong. You dont know WHAT IS WHAT. you are just running around shouting the sky is falling.

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