RE: Second hand smoke

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MistressSassy66 -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/3/2006 6:54:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eruditegirl1 quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom I think the next time I see some asshole smoking right in front of the door I am going to wipe my ass with my hand and clean it on their shirt. I mean, it is my right after all isn't it? The idiots supporting smoking don't have a clue what freedom means. It means freedom from interference from others. You smoke enters my lungs, you are unconsensually killing me. I am not advocating banning smoking, just that you should have a bag over your head while you do it. I support your right to smoke as long as you don't force me to be a pathetic drug addict as well. You know Crappy you are right...now I am all mad at people who drive cars too....how dare they pollute the air that I breathe....or how about the big trucks too...or the planes....and what about the chemicals they spray on our friuts and vegies...or the hormones injected into our meat....and don't get me started on the water that comes from our tap.....you know what....I might as well just go wipe my ass and shake everyone's hand that I come in contact with....cause how dare they even think of polluting my lungs...body.....or mind....or I could just do a little research and realize...... The OSHA standards say that the maximum safe level for nicotine exposure is 500 micrograms per cubic meter. The measurements taken by the St. Louis Park Environmental Health Department in 19 restaurants that had smoking sections had a full range of between <1 (too low to detect) to a maximum 32.5 (and that one establishment was the only one above 7.5 micrograms, the other 18 were all below that). The absolute worst establishment, the one that was nearly 5 times worse than all the others, was still 85% below the safe exposure limits. Most of those are a needed for daily life...without tractor trailers how is your fruit with pesticides all over them(you can wash that off you know) getting to the grocery store who keeps the food good for you to eat by using refrigerators and air conditioning which I believ have a toxic element ( freon [sp]) to them...why else would the dump charge to get rid of them. Is cigerette smoking needed for daily life...No it adds nothing to the benefit of life...except of course all the money the Cig co. makes,and the states to tax it.

eruditegirl1 -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/3/2006 7:22:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66 quote: ORIGINAL: eruditegirl1 quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom I think the next time I see some asshole smoking right in front of the door I am going to wipe my ass with my hand and clean it on their shirt. I mean, it is my right after all isn't it? The idiots supporting smoking don't have a clue what freedom means. It means freedom from interference from others. You smoke enters my lungs, you are unconsensually killing me. I am not advocating banning smoking, just that you should have a bag over your head while you do it. I support your right to smoke as long as you don't force me to be a pathetic drug addict as well. You know Crappy you are right...now I am all mad at people who drive cars too....how dare they pollute the air that I breathe....or how about the big trucks too...or the planes....and what about the chemicals they spray on our friuts and vegies...or the hormones injected into our meat....and don't get me started on the water that comes from our tap.....you know what....I might as well just go wipe my ass and shake everyone's hand that I come in contact with....cause how dare they even think of polluting my lungs...body.....or mind....or I could just do a little research and realize...... The OSHA standards say that the maximum safe level for nicotine exposure is 500 micrograms per cubic meter. The measurements taken by the St. Louis Park Environmental Health Department in 19 restaurants that had smoking sections had a full range of between <1 (too low to detect) to a maximum 32.5 (and that one establishment was the only one above 7.5 micrograms, the other 18 were all below that). The absolute worst establishment, the one that was nearly 5 times worse than all the others, was still 85% below the safe exposure limits. Most of those are a needed for daily life...without tractor trailers how is your fruit with pesticides all over them(you can wash that off you know) getting to the grocery store who keeps the food good for you to eat by using refrigerators and air conditioning which I believ have a toxic element ( freon [sp]) to them...why else would the dump charge to get rid of them. Is cigerette smoking needed for daily life...No it adds nothing to the benefit of life...except of course all the money the Cig co. makes,and the states to tax it. While I agree that most are needed for daily life....my point was....the common denominator being...we are exposed to numerous pollutants....again addressing both crappy and the second hand smoke issue....not the fact that our commerce system is necessary....What I am trying to point out in my previous post that you referenced is this....we all breathe...even if cigarettes no longer existed there would still be cancer....because there are toxins in our air...water and food...put there by inconsiderate greedy companies....whose bottom line is not our health...but their profit margin....I am more concerned with the toxins in the air...water and food..than I am from walking by someone having a cigarette outside a door....or wiping their feces on my shirt....

MistressSassy66 -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/3/2006 7:29:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eruditegirl1 While I agree that most are needed for daily life....my point was....the common denominator being...we are exposed to numerous pollutants....again addressing both crappy and the second hand smoke issue....not the fact that our commerce system is necessary....What I am trying to point out in my previous post that you referenced is this....we all breathe...even if cigarettes no longer existed there would still be cancer....because there are toxins in our air...water and food...put there by inconsiderate greedy companies....whose bottom line is not our health...but their profit margin....I am more concerned with the toxins in the air...water and food..than I am from walking by someone having a cigarette outside a door....or wiping their feces on my shirt.... Gotcha...and agree completely when seen in that light. For Myself though just passing by someone and inhaling smoke can trigger an Asthma attack. I'm not sure if feces would have the same effect....it would be more like [:'(]

Theslavetrainer -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/3/2006 7:32:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressSassy66 Most of those are a needed for daily life...without tractor trailers how is your fruit with pesticides all over them(you can wash that off you know) getting to the grocery store who keeps the food good for you to eat by using refrigerators and air conditioning which I believ have a toxic element ( freon [sp]) to them...why else would the dump charge to get rid of them. Actually, halomethanes R-12 and R-22 are no longer being used as refrigerants and are being replaced with R-32, R-125 and R-134a. R-134a is what is being more widely used as a refrigerant now. It's not toxic to the ozone like R-12 is.

Dtesmoac -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/3/2006 7:34:39 PM)
If the argument most widely used in favour of smoking is that it is their right, or their freedom to do it surely the simple equation in this whole argument is who has the greatest right the person wishing to not breath in a knon specific carcinogen or the person who wishes to breath it out? All of the arguments about Car fumes etc are irrelevent as each needs to be taken in isolation and when there is as clear an option to not have car fumes as there is to not have smokers breath then the arguments will also apply. Any when you walk around normally people do not try and shove pesticdes down your gullet, you have the option of organic .....!!!!!! Personnaly I have no problem being exposed to some smokers residue but I think that where there is a smoker and non smoker in the same space the rghts of the non smoker for clean air out way the rights of the smoker to inhale polluted air. And all the arguments about having smokers only or designated smoking areas are valid provided the smell and fumes do not escape from the "smoking" area.

marieToo -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/3/2006 10:06:01 PM)
I actually dont have a huge problem being around someone who smokes. Im not even so convinced that its the greatest contributer to cancer. I just get tired of smokers trying to justify smoking their toxins around others and whining about their rights while they hide behind things like car fumes and pesticides. Call a spade a spade already. Its a brutal addiction and every smoker wishes they were a non-smoker. Its not so hard to just cave in and admit that to yourself. In fact, it could be the first step towards quitting.

meatcleaver -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/3/2006 10:31:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac All of the arguments about Car fumes etc are irrelevent as each needs to be taken in isolation and when there is as clear an option to not have car fumes as there is to not have smokers breath then the arguments will also apply. Any when you walk around normally people do not try and shove pesticdes down your gullet, you have the option of organic .....!!!!!! Actually, just to be contrary, organic food has more carcenogens than food treated with pesticides, though for the organically minded, those carcenogens are organic.

Termyn8or -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/3/2006 11:05:15 PM)
Susceptible to carcinogens ? Well it is up to you to stay away then, the whole world is not yours. Stay away from me then. We can survive will, the rest of you can stay away. Carcinogens are only carginogens to those who are susceptible to them. I know people who work in foundries in 135 degree heat amidst all of the nastiest smoke and fumes you ever saw. Explain to me how they seem to be among the healthiest people I know. You may dictate, in YOUR restaurant, in YOUR bar if one can smoke. You have absolutely no business telling others what to do beyond that. If you are that [insert yor own adjective] that people outside smoking bothers you, get farther away. Go away completely. In fact how about we lock you in a room with ten people smoking. I'm sure you'll have expired in ten minutes. Problem solved, WE shall have our way. We will smoke all the way from the devilery room to the coffin. We will inflict our poison on everyone which seems to somehow protect us. You are so vulnerable and we are so strong, ever heard of Darwin ? Worried about radon gas emanating from your basement ? Don't you dare open a window. Radon does nothing for us either. Got black mold ? I insist you completely seal the whole house right now. And you BETTER do something about those damn volcanos erupting. Face it wimps, life is not going to accomodate you, ever. Even if you get smoking completely outlawed you have gained nothing, except the wrath of people who are obviously more developed to live in this enviroment than you are. You are saying that you are all sick or have some genetic abnormality and we must accomodate you in all public places without exception ? Bullshit. Bull Shit. T

ScooterTrash -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 2:25:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo I actually dont have a huge problem being around someone who smokes. Im not even so convinced that its the greatest contributer to cancer. I just get tired of smokers trying to justify smoking their toxins around others and whining about their rights while they hide behind things like car fumes and pesticides. Call a spade a spade already. Its a brutal addiction and every smoker wishes they were a non-smoker. Its not so hard to just cave in and admit that to yourself. In fact, it could be the first step towards quitting. Hurray, something I can actually dispute as a fact. NO, this is NOT true! I don't even agree it's necessarily an addiction, not any more than I prefer certain drinks or food, it's something I enjoy and so I do it. Put all the health warnings on a particular food or drink that you want to, but if I like it, I will still eat/drink it. Gezzz, there are many people who enjoy being flogged, but breaking blood vessels in their ass is logically, not healthy...but they still enjoy it and partake of it. Don't assume just because something is perceived by some as not healthy, that people will automatically jump on the band wagon and not do it. If we worried about every little thing that might affect us in a negative manner, we would never leave the womb.

meatcleaver -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 2:47:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash Gezzz, there are many people who enjoy being flogged, but breaking blood vessels in their ass is logically, not healthy...but they still enjoy it and partake of it. Don't assume just because something is perceived by some as not healthy, that people will automatically jump on the band wagon and not do it. If we worried about every little thing that might affect us in a negative manner, we would never leave the womb. Yay! How many people part take in vices that are not good for them and demand tolerance but geez, there are so many intolerant people around here but who cares. Death comes to us all and some of us enjoy the ride to the grave more than others and the hypocondriacs and those scared of life just make their journey seem longer but a lot less fun. As Clement Freud said, not smoking and drinking doesn't help you live longer, it just seems longer.

karlsub2 -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 4:52:27 AM)
I personally dont mind second hand smoke at all.Thats because i have a smoking fetish.I guess what im doing is not 100% healthy but its what i enjoy doing.

MistressMaamNH -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 5:53:22 AM)
All things being equal-The right to be in a public place, etc..those who choose to smoke, take the risk willingly. Those who have to be around others who smoke lack both the filter most smokers have, AND more importantly, have the choice take away from them if they want to be exposed to smoke or not. Many a times My family has had to cut short our fun and enjoyment of an activity because My son who has severe asthma and allergies became ill because someone chose to smoke in a public place. I wonder why the smoker's pursuit of happiness by smoking has precidence over My son's health and rights to pursue his happiness at the activity? For Me personally, I despise the smell of smoke so much that My subs who smoke, are not allowed to smoke prior to serving Me, and can expect at some point, a requirment that the cease smoking all together.

Dtesmoac -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 6:03:44 AM)
Come on meat clever an apple containes a certain amonut of hazardous substance some of which are carcinogenic, an apple treated with pesticides contains a higher number of hazardous substances which depending on the pesticides used will include additional carcinogens. Normally your logic and arguments are well put........was it one glass to much vino ?

MistressLorelei -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 6:09:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Yay! How many people part take in vices that are not good for them and demand tolerance but geez, there are so many intolerant people around here but who cares. Death comes to us all and some of us enjoy the ride to the grave more than others and the hypocondriacs and those scared of life just make their journey seem longer but a lot less fun. As Clement Freud said, not smoking and drinking doesn't help you live longer, it just seems longer. Oh come on... you are just as intolerant as the rest of us. You could 'enjoy your ride to your grave' to it's fullest, and bypass complaining about the state of affairs in the world with conservative government/Bush, war, global warming, etc.... but you don't, because you hope for something better. There are times to be positive, and there are times to stand up for the possibility of positive changes. I want to enjoy my life to it's fullest.... I'd much rather not have to complain about smokers who find justification in sharing their harmful carcinogens with me.

marieToo -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 7:44:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo I actually dont have a huge problem being around someone who smokes. Im not even so convinced that its the greatest contributer to cancer. I just get tired of smokers trying to justify smoking their toxins around others and whining about their rights while they hide behind things like car fumes and pesticides. Call a spade a spade already. Its a brutal addiction and every smoker wishes they were a non-smoker. Its not so hard to just cave in and admit that to yourself. In fact, it could be the first step towards quitting. Hurray, something I can actually dispute as a fact. NO, this is NOT true! I don't even agree it's necessarily an addiction, not any more than I prefer certain drinks or food, it's something I enjoy and so I do it. Put all the health warnings on a particular food or drink that you want to, but if I like it, I will still eat/drink it. Gezzz, there are many people who enjoy being flogged, but breaking blood vessels in their ass is logically, not healthy...but they still enjoy it and partake of it. Don't assume just because something is perceived by some as not healthy, that people will automatically jump on the band wagon and not do it. If we worried about every little thing that might affect us in a negative manner, we would never leave the womb. Youre kidding me right? Why do you think you "enjoy" it? Would you still drink a can of ginger ale if the label said it contained arsenic, simply because you "enjoy" it? I think you'd probably switch to lemonade, no? You enjoy smoking because it relieves your need for a fix. It makes everything "right". And you need a fix so badly that your willing to put up with the "enjoyment" of smelling, coughing, not being able to laugh without harking up lung meat, being yellow, and living surrounded with butts and ashes. If you want to analogize the enjoyment you get from a cigarette and the enjoyment you get from eating your favorite food, try going without your favorite food for a few days and see if it fucks you up. Then go a couple days without the "enjoyment" of a cigarette and come back and argue that point. Your agument about doing other things that may not be safe, does not change the fact that cigarette smoking is an addiction. This is what really makes me shake my head. There hasnt been a smoker yet on this board who can actually debate a statement about cigarette smoking without trying to justify their habit in their own minds by pulling in all kinds of other unsafe shit to compare it to. If you want to argue the dangers of being flogged then argue that. We are talking about cigarettes, not the danger in pesticide, not the danger in being flogged, not the danger in mountian climbing. Im not down on smokers ( I used to be one), Im down on the way you all work so hard to accept the addiction, that you wish you didnt have.

marieToo -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 7:52:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash Gezzz, there are many people who enjoy being flogged, but breaking blood vessels in their ass is logically, not healthy...but they still enjoy it and partake of it. Don't assume just because something is perceived by some as not healthy, that people will automatically jump on the band wagon and not do it. If we worried about every little thing that might affect us in a negative manner, we would never leave the womb. Yay! How many people part take in vices that are not good for them and demand tolerance but geez, there are so many intolerant people around here but who cares. Death comes to us all and some of us enjoy the ride to the grave more than others and the hypocondriacs and those scared of life just make their journey seem longer but a lot less fun. As Clement Freud said, not smoking and drinking doesn't help you live longer, it just seems longer. deleted because its not going to penetrate.

MistressBG -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 7:52:39 AM)
People are just way too uptight nowadays.

marieToo -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 8:23:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressBG People are just way too uptight nowadays. Awesome contribution.

MistressBG -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 8:37:53 AM)
thanks.[:)]

LadyEllen -> RE: Second hand smoke (8/4/2006 8:49:13 AM)
What amuses me most as a smoker, is that when I show consideration for others (as I always do) and take my cigarette outside, I am inevitably joined by non smokers who want to talk to me! Same thing happens at work and in the pub; we smokers go outside to avoid harming others - and they come out to join us! Why is this I wonder? Could it just be that smokers are more interesting people..........? Could it just be that we smokers are the core of any social group and without us the non smokers cannot function? Does this mean that smoking really does make one chic, attractive and sophisticated? In any case I'd really rather others didnt breathe my smoke - for goodness sake cigarettes cost a fortune; get your own! E PS - Tongue in cheek folks, OK!?

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