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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/5/2006 7:32:03 PM

EnglishDomNW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring
The whole point is to ban smoking because they don't like it. Why don't people just be honest and admit it?

Absolutely, Estring, well said.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/5/2006 10:04:06 PM

ScooterTrash

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring
The whole point is to ban smoking because they don't like it. Why don't people just be honest and admit it?

Absolutely, Estring, well said.

Because that would be factual.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/5/2006 10:40:46 PM

MistressLorelei

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring
The whole point is to ban smoking because they don't like it. Why don't people just be honest and admit it?

Absolutely, Estring, well said.

Because that would be factual.

You are right... It is factual... I don't like smoking when it's done around me... because it has been proven to harm people who don't smoke, but who are around it second handedly. Who would like for a bunch of strangers to cause them considerable harm?

I need a dozen submissives who don't shower, who pass gas frequently, have loud, obnoxious voices and like to use them, and they should enjoy blowing big. wet. germy, flu infected sneezes all over public places... Imagine how fun and healthy your public places would be then.

This is getting silly.... only case smokers seem to have made is in finding they have the right to smoke... so screw anyone else.

I will throw in my nice, clean, fresh smelling towel and hope that all pubic places will eventually be smoke and harm-free.... to the capacity that we, the people are capable of providing.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/5/2006 11:20:20 PM

EnglishDomNW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

only case smokers seem to have made is in finding they have the right to smoke... so screw anyone else.

Providing we're not doing it around anyone that would object, that's all the case we need, no?

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 8/5/2006 11:42:26 PM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/5/2006 11:38:43 PM

MistressLorelei

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

only case smokers seem to have made is in finding they have the right to smoke... so screw anyone else.

Providing we're not doing it around anyone that would object, that's all the case we need.

But this whole issue has been that many non-smokers do object when you do it in public. No one cares if you are smoking in your house.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/5/2006 11:56:10 PM

EnglishDomNW

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If you're objecting reasonably, i.e. the smoke is genuinely affecting you, that's fine - you have every right to do that.

Earlier, someone said they could smell smoke 100 yards across a street and that somehow it was adversely affecting their health.

I'm sorry but that is simply not in the realms of common sense. Cigarette smoke rises. It doesn't cross the street and home in on a non-smokers nostrils.

It's when people start making those types of claims that smokers think "Hmmmmm, this isn't about health at all, this is just you trying to ban something because you don't like it"

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 8/6/2006 12:04:10 AM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 12:45:12 AM

Estring

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

only case smokers seem to have made is in finding they have the right to smoke... so screw anyone else.

Providing we're not doing it around anyone that would object, that's all the case we need.

But this whole issue has been that many non-smokers do object when you do it in public. No one cares if you are smoking in your house.

If you live in West Hollywood they do. And if you have children they do too.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 6:14:49 AM

MistressLorelei

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

But this whole issue has been that many non-smokers do object when you do it in public. No one cares if you are smoking in your house.

If you live in West Hollywood they do. And if you have children they do too.

I would likely disagree with west Hollywood, but children are the non-smokers who are suffering the most... and they have no choice to get away from it. Why not smoke outside for their benefit?

You know, there wouldn't have to be some of these petty laws if people would just be considerate to begin with. Oh well....

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 6:34:06 AM

mistoferin

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Petty laws?....I don't think that employment laws and child custody laws are petty. Should people lose custody of their kids because they are a smoker? Should teachers have to file mandatory child abuse charges if your child goes to school and gets an earache and she knows you're a smoker? Come on.......

http://www.ash.org/custody-and-smoking.html

http://stickup4kids.org/Smoking/custody.htm

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=7788

I guess that you and I have very different opinions of the definition of petty.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 8/6/2006 6:35:33 AM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 6:47:30 AM

MistressLorelei

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Petty laws?....I don't think that employment laws and child custody laws are petty. Should people lose custody of their kids because they are a smoker? Should teachers have to file manditory child abuse charges if your child goes to school and gets an earache and she knows you're a smoker? Come on.......

http://www.ash.org/custody-and-smoking.html

http://stickup4kids.org/Smoking/custody.htm

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=7788

I guess that you and I have very different opinions of the definition of petty.

By petty I mean, I would think it would be common sense to not blow smoke at your kids. No one would have to create a law which told me 'hey, don't purposely harm your daughter". I don't think every ailment should be chalked up as child abuse, and people are going too far, and employers should have no say in personal lifestyle.... and yes, those are problems. But sometimes, it is abuse. I have seen parents smoke around asthmatic kids in their cars... not abuse? Smoking around newborns whose lungs are never fully developed.... not abuse?

Laws are created like this because people apparently do need to be told such things... and now some of these laws are being abused. Where is the happy medium. If parents want to smoke.. fine, but don't make your kids suffer.

< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 8/6/2006 6:51:15 AM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 8:18:41 AM

ShiftedJewel

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quote:

Laws are created like this because people apparently do need to be told such things...

Then if anything... they should prosecute for stupidity. But no way in hell should I suffer because of someone else's inability to make intelligent and common sense decisions. Of course I know my kids need to be protected, I know they shouldn't be jumping around in the back of a moving truck any more then they should be allowed to play on the edge of a cliff. So, how about instead of picking on EVERYONE that smokes... lets single out the idiots out there that start fires, throw their trash out of their moving cars, let their kids run amok where ever they go... and one of my faves... keep them dopped up or over fed to "sooth" them and keep them happy!

I have NEVER smoked in the home of non-smokers unless they told me up front that it was ok. I have never even asked if I could! I have told people to put their cigarette out (years ago) in the grocery store and I was a smoker! I understood that then, and I do now. I understand that smoking in government buildings should be regulated because most of the time people go there because they don't have a choice, not because this is where they like to hang out. I get all of that and I agree with it! I always use an ashtray or ash can or what ever when ever one is available, I try really hard to be as unoffensive as possible... hell, I had a subbie here that was a non-smoker so I spent the $400 and got him an Ionic Breeze. And yes, it does work in that respect.

Now for my rant.... I've stopped smoking in grocery stores, hospitals, and government buildings and never bitch about it... but give me a freakin' break here!!! No one is holding a gun to your head and telling you that you have to go to a restaurant that allows smoking! Better yet... pay close attention when you go to one... they ask if you have a smoking preference... smoking, non-smoking or first available? WTF?? People take the first available then bitch about being put in the smoking section!! And bars??? These are places that no one HAS to go to, no one is court ordered to eat at a certain restaurant, or drink at a certain bar.... and as far as the employees are concerned??? Ok, check it out... they knew there was a smoking section there when they hired on... they knew that they would most likely have to work that section on occassion as well and yet they still took the job.... now, tell me... who's fault is that??? That's kind of like going out and buying a stick shift car and then bitching cuz you don't know how to drive one... give me a f*cking break. I'm not going to justify why I smoke because I don't need to, not to you or anyone else. It's simple, I smoke because I want to. All the bull shit about health hazzards aside... that isn't how I live. I don't focus on what's good for me and what isn't and I'm damn near 50 years old. I lay in the sun and when I remember I use sun screen and when I don't... well I tan really well. My kids are all grown and gone from the nest... I smoked their whole lives... and you know what?? Not one of them has asthma, not one of them has ear problems... in fact, I can't even remember the last time one of them was truly sick... wanna know why? Because I didn't protect them from germs. If it was cold outside then they got cold, if it was hot then they got hot too... they built up a resistance to all that crap...

Ok, I got off topic there... smoking... right? All I have to say on that is this... Back the f*ck off... you may not see it as a personal freedom... but you know what? There are things that others do that I personally don't see as a personal freedom as well.... but I'll be damned if I'm gonna sit around and let them take it away from you.

You don't like my smoking... fine, stay away from me, not a problem to me, just don't force your issues on me and I won't force mine on you. If you sit in the non-smoking section of a restaurant then chances are our paths will never cross. And that's fine with me too. I really have no use for closed minded people anyway. When it's illegal... I won't do it... but it's still legal.

I'll tell you one thing... if they outlaw smoking I'll lay odds that obesity will be next and that's gonna impact a LOT of people... wanna bet they put up one hellova fight? What's after that? Perfume? I have asthma... got it from Los Angeles (gotta love that place don't ya?) And some perfumes set off my asthma. Oh yeah, lets not forget beer... hops set off asthma PDQ....

All I can say is that I hope you find your Utopia where everything is regulated and controlled and I hope you are happy there... Didn't Janis Joplin say "freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose...."?

Jewel

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 8:57:39 AM

MistressLorelei

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As I have said... smoke till your lungs are content... but don't read between the lines of what I have said, and contort what my meaning was....

Where I live (in my little Utopia called Florida), smoking is banned in public places (except a handful of smoke-related locations), and the discussion has been based on smoking in public places, and that it should be illegal in places where it's not illegal already (like in my little Utopia). I never said don't smoke.... fill your house with all the smoke you wish.

If people choose to smoke around their kids... I think it's awful, but I don't think kids should be removed from homes or not granted custody just for smoking, but in many cases kids are seriously sick because of it... and if these parents still want to smoke, and it takes a court to tell them to smoke away from their kids... then so be it Sometimes, a court has to tell parents to stop beating their kids too, or to stop verbally abusing them, or making them sick with poison (munchausen syndrome, etc.). Do courts not have the right to keep kids free of harm when their parents' aren't doing it themselves?

When we see child abuse on TV, we think, 'how could a parent do that to a kid', but when it happens slowly over time... it's okay... it's a parental right. Maybe your kids were fine; many kids wind up without complications... that's great, but some kids do get sick, some kids die... and many would not have if their parents' had lit up outside. Smoking or kids health? And I am the narrow-minded one?

< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 8/6/2006 9:20:21 AM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 11:58:09 AM

EnglishDomNW

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I genuinely believe smokers are wasting their time debating this issue because so far, we've been accused of arson, mass murder, child abuse and god knows what else.

Let them continue their self-righteous quest to ban something they don't like. But alcohol drinkers, you're next.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 12:09:49 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

I genuinely believe smokers are wasting their time debating this issue because so far, we've been accused of arson, mass murder, child abuse and god knows what else.

Let them continue their self-righteous quest to ban something they don't like. But alcohol drinkers, you're next.

And you people stop creating a hole in the ozone layer with your cancer sticks

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 12:14:49 PM

Estring

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but some kids do get sick, some kids die

Mistress Lorelei, show me where any child has died from smoking. Or from second hand smoke for that matter. The hysteria just boggles my mind. Now children are dying?

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 1:24:08 PM

EnglishDomNW

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If non-smokers wonder why we're so suspicious of your motives, think of it this way.

The next time you enjoy a beer or a glass of wine, imagine we started comparing you to a drunk who beats his wife unconscious.

Most people smoke responsibly. Most drinkers don't beat their wives.

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 8/6/2006 1:25:30 PM >

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 1:28:43 PM

SweetSubTrisha

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Child abuse? I wonder now how many children are dying from all of the food some parents get from fast food restaurants. Happily given to them by loving parents as a treat. Pretty soon there will be notices up at McD's and others "No one under 18 allowed, foods known to cause obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes.. Purchase at your own risk." Then, people who don't go to these 'bad' places, will be standing back and call them names, blame them for high medical costs on the public (who don't frequent them), and want these parents accused of child abuse. Thank goodness, very few people deliberately harm their children!
No, I'm not hijacking here.. I'm making a legitimate comparison. I don't believe that ALL smokers are as inconsiderate as some of the posts here have claimed. In fact, I believe that MOST smokers are considerate of others and I would even be willing to say that I think most smokers even feel somewhat humiliated in some ways because of the way they have been made to feel. In my opinion, humbly stated here, I believe that when SOME non-smokers become harrassing and rude themselves, because of a perceived aggravation to them, they cause the smoker to act on a perceived prejudicial attitude towards them. Isn't it all a matter of common sense? A matter of acting with consideration on both sides? We're all people, we all live on this planet, MOST want to live peacefully with others. Being polite on both sides does wonders .
One more comment and then I'm done.. lol On the beaches.. yes, there are SOME cigarette butts, but there are also piles of dog feces from inconsiderate owners, candy wrappers and beer bottles and cans, soda cans and all other forms of litter. Maybe we should forbid ALL PEOPLE from being allowed on the beaches? There are fewer smokers than there are litterers. What scares me the most now, is all of the annimosity shown on this thread!!

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 4:26:25 PM

MistressLorelei

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

but some kids do get sick, some kids die

Mistress Lorelei, show me where any child has died from smoking. Or from second hand smoke for that matter. The hysteria just boggles my mind. Now children are dying?

You can contact the EPA to discuss the details in their findings as to why and how they have concluded that smoking can harm/kill children.

http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/

There are many examples, here is one.... Sudden Infant Death Syndrome is twice as common in babies from smoking homes as it is in babies from smoke-free homes. Coincidence?

So, in reply... Yes children are dying. Hysteria to some, not to me.

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 4:33:33 PM

redpetals

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pot smoke and ciggarette smoke two different things ..have the heat damage in common..but the chemical deifferences are huge..
and i know this..everyone of my better halves ,brothers and sisters kids had ear infections,severe colds..all kinds of asthmatic symptoms ..all because there parents were too idiotic to stop smoking around them
i think it is clearly child abuse if a parent smokes around a child..period
and yes i smoked for a long time but never round my kids and i have been smoke free for 18 years...

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RE: Second hand smoke - 8/6/2006 7:29:22 PM

Estring

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

but some kids do get sick, some kids die

Mistress Lorelei, show me where any child has died from smoking. Or from second hand smoke for that matter. The hysteria just boggles my mind. Now children are dying?

You can contact the EPA to discuss the details in their findings as to why and how they have concluded that smoking can harm/kill children.

http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/

There are many examples, here is one.... Sudden Infant Death Syndrome is twice as common in babies from smoking homes as it is in babies from smoke-free homes. Coincidence?

So, in reply... Yes children are dying. Hysteria to some, not to me.