Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Second hand smoke


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Second hand smoke Page: <<   < prev  17 18 [19] 20 21   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 7:07:24 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

If I found evidence of a child that had died of an asthma attack triggered by cigarettes would you stop asserting that second hand smoke is good for me?


Never did i state it was bad for you, what i stated is that soooo many make the statement that it causes disease or kills you.

If you showed me proof that said child died from an astma attack triggered by second hand smoke what you would in essence be showing me is that the child died of asthma. Second hand smoke did not give him asthma in the first place.

The fact is that there is no proof that second hand smoke does any of what the anti smokers state.

Provide me with one death certificate that lists second hand smoke as the primary or underlying cause and i will shut up.

I can provide you with death certificates that state a heart attack was the cause of death with the underlying cause being recorded as morbid obesity.


These studies don't prove death, but they do prove changes in the body:

Strauss RS. Environmental tobacco smoke and serum vitamin C levels in children. Pediatrics 2001;107(3):540-42.
 
Ilicali OM, Keles N, Deger K, Sagun OF, Guldiken Y. Evaluation of the effect of passive smoking on otitis media in children by an objective method: urinary cotinine analysis. Laryngoscope 2001;111:163-67.

I would also question your statement about "morbid obesity" being the "cause" of death.  I would guess that the person was described as being "morbidly obese", but the cause of the heart attack was severe cardiac disease.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 361
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 7:31:30 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn


These studies don't prove death, but they do prove changes in the body:

Strauss RS. Environmental tobacco smoke and serum vitamin C levels in children. Pediatrics 2001;107(3):540-42.
 
Ilicali OM, Keles N, Deger K, Sagun OF, Guldiken Y. Evaluation of the effect of passive smoking on otitis media in children by an objective method: urinary cotinine analysis. Laryngoscope 2001;111:163-67.

I would also question your statement about "morbid obesity" being the "cause" of death.  I would guess that the person was described as being "morbidly obese", but the cause of the heart attack was severe cardiac disease.


I was aware of both these studies and i hardly quantify lowered vitamin C levels as a serious health risk, not to mention nether of these studies were conducted with a blind.

I did not state that morbid obesity was the cause of death, i stated heart attack but if you wish to get technical i can restate it now; 

Cause of death: myocardial  infarction ,underlying factor: morbid obesity.

When the CDC does it records for deaths it lists both the immediate cause and the underlying factor/s.  In this case the underlying factors would be severe cardiac disease and morbid obesity.

< Message edited by twicehappy -- 8/8/2006 7:33:09 AM >

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)
Profile   Post #: 362
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 8:49:13 AM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

Sorry Lorelei, i checked every one and not one of them shows any proof, only statements that second hand smoke carrys the same chemicals as first hand smoke. By proof i mean incontravertable evidence that the second hand smoke was the cause.

Can you find one autopsy report that states the cause of death was second hand smoke?

Can you produce one medical record that states that the illness being treated was caused by second hand smoke?

The only thing your sites provided was the same drivel that we hear from the anti smoking campains, that it is bad for you. I want proof, statistics that are based on identifiable causes, not guesses.  


Credible agencies are saying it's harmful and providing you with figures because they have examined autopsy reports.  The surgeon General has concluded that second hand smoke is killing people, and he likely has access to any autopsy report you could hope for. He doesn't base his findings on a random guess.

..."nonsmokers who live with a smoker have a 20%-30% higher risk of lung cancer because of exposure to secondhand smoke."  US Surgeon General

That's not enough?

I don't suppose viewing individual reports would change your mind either.  I do not know the name and social security number of every dead person. If you don't care to believe the cdc, nih, epa,, the surgeon general, the american cancer society, etc who are telling you second hand smoke is harmful, how harmful it is, and telling you it is causing deaths of innocent people who don't smoke... then you are entitled to your own conclusions.   

Perhaps the small children of smokers who are found (within the cites I provided) to have lungs which contain highh levels of very harmful toxins only found in individuals who smoke (directly or indirectly) is a good thing?  Famous and highly respected Pediatrician, Dr. Sears will tell you how safe second hand smoke is for kids... and how kids exposed to second hand smoke are at the doctor 2-3 times as often for respiratory infections as kids who aren't exposed to it.

http://parenting.aol.com/parenting/onlyonaol/baby/article/0,19840,1028107,00.html

Perhaps you can find an article from the cdc or nih showing us the healthful benefits of second hand smoke.  No one can make a case to the unreasonable...


(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 363
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 8:55:48 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Sudden infant death is also associated with smoking. Babies of pregnant women who smoked are low birth weight,and  tend to suffer from failure to thrive, also have higher numbers of premature births. I tried very hard to quit while pregnant, and cut down to one a day and did not smoke in my house at all until my son was a year old, and then only when the windows were open. Children of parents that smoke have higher asthma rates also. These were things my pediatrician told me, and I trusted him not be be a liar.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
Profile   Post #: 364
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 9:04:51 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Here is a link from the mayo clinic that discusses SIDs and second hand smoke. It also addresses asthma. The Mayo Clinic is one of the most prestigious research centers for medicine in the world... although I am sure you are aware that the NIH and the CDC often collaborate with the Mayo Clinic and Emory in regard to the studies they publish.



http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/secondhand-smoke/CC00023

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 365
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 9:07:34 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn


These studies don't prove death, but they do prove changes in the body:

Strauss RS. Environmental tobacco smoke and serum vitamin C levels in children. Pediatrics 2001;107(3):540-42.
 
Ilicali OM, Keles N, Deger K, Sagun OF, Guldiken Y. Evaluation of the effect of passive smoking on otitis media in children by an objective method: urinary cotinine analysis. Laryngoscope 2001;111:163-67.

I would also question your statement about "morbid obesity" being the "cause" of death.  I would guess that the person was described as being "morbidly obese", but the cause of the heart attack was severe cardiac disease.


I was aware of both these studies and i hardly quantify lowered vitamin C levels as a serious health risk, not to mention nether of these studies were conducted with a blind.

I did not state that morbid obesity was the cause of death, i stated heart attack but if you wish to get technical i can restate it now; 

Cause of death: myocardial  infarction ,underlying factor: morbid obesity.

When the CDC does it records for deaths it lists both the immediate cause and the underlying factor/s.  In this case the underlying factors would be severe cardiac disease and morbid obesity.


If you think that breathing in second hand smoke over a long period of time isn't going to have some effect on a body, then you are simply being very short-sighted.  Do I care if you smoke or think that parents who smoke in the house are abusers?  No.  I do think if you choose to smoke in close proximity of your children, you will most likely have some effect on their heath over time, even if the effects are short term respiratory issues. 

You are missing the point of the studies presented.  They show evidence that there are metabolic changes occurring in the children exposed to second hand smoke.  If that's ok with you, so be it.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 366
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 9:23:43 AM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Sudden infant death is also associated with smoking. Babies of pregnant women who smoked are low birth weight,and  tend to suffer from failure to thrive, also have higher numbers of premature births. I tried very hard to quit while pregnant, and cut down to one a day and did not smoke in my house at all until my son was a year old, and then only when the windows were open. Children of parents that smoke have higher asthma rates also. These were things my pediatrician told me, and I trusted him not be be a liar.


Very true.  It has all been said, but unless you supply the actual reports, with autopsy records bearing an official seal (embossed only) to TwiceHappy... it seems any such  findings or conclusions from any reputable agency (government or otherwise) are inaccurate and irrelevant.

< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 8/8/2006 9:25:21 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 367
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 12:15:35 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		WORLD NET DAILY
March 26, 2002

Smoke and Lose Your Son

<article deleted, link added>

http://www.dennisprager.com/smoke.html
 
[Mod Note:  Please don't paste articles in their entirety, post a link to the copyrighted material instead]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 8/8/2006 1:08:32 PM >

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
Profile   Post #: 368
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 1:24:17 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

WORLD NET DAILY
March 26, 2002

Smoke and Lose Your Son

<article deleted, link added>

http://www.dennisprager.com/smoke.html
 
[Mod Note:  Please don't paste articles in their entirety, post a link to the copyrighted material instead]


The teenage son stated to the judge that he didn't like visiting his mother and having to smell like a smoke-filled beer joint, and the health risk concerns posed by the father were ignored.  The mother, not wanting to just smoke outside despite her son's feelings allowed the issue to go to court.... rather than smoke outside.  What a mom.

She didn't lose her son, but was told not to smoke inside the home where her son would be staying on a regular basis.  Teenagers have rights too, don't they?

Regarding this thread...  It has become argumentative and obviously pointless... and yes, I am a contributor.  Twice, Estring... it is your right to not agree with the reports made by the experts... it is your right to smoke.  I support everyone's rights to do what they please with their own bodies.  Smoke, have an abortion, eat till your arteries explode.  Possibly the most sacred right we all have is our right to exist without it being okay for others to harm us.  That's a freedom that we all should want to protect, because when we no longer have that freedom, we all lose.  

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 369
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 1:39:01 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Estring;

I hope you'll post a link to that. I think it's going to get bounced by a Mod. It happened to me. They said something about a full quote being unacceptable, but excerpts are apparentl OK. They said fair use did not apply to full quotes, so I guess it's a copyright issue.

Interesting nonetheless. Strange how people keep using Nazis as a negative example, and in doing so actually make them look better, or at least not as bad. Also seems they do so in relation to conditions in supposedly free countries. If that court decision is not overturned it will make case law, and set a very dagerous precedent.

Now let's get my position clear.

1. Smoking is BAD FOR YOU ! IF in your case it is giving you a bad reaction, STOP.

2. Smoking is bad for everyone.

3. Second hand smoke is bad for you, errr, others. This varies. Extreme sensitivity is notable in some individuals, so if you smoke do not do it around them.

4. I am a 2+ pack a day smoker, and of premium cigarettes (Winston Select). That is about $2,000 every year of my hard earned money going to pay for your bureaucrats, with a few crumbs thrown at the schools and your sports arenas and junk like that, and I might add that smoking is prohibited in most of those places.

5. Even though I am a smoker, I do not want anyone smoking at the table while I am eating. If there is really good ventilation it's OK though.

6. If in a place with non-smokers who are bothered by it I have no problem going outside, but don't start telling me I have to go 3 miles away and get into a hermetically sealed chamber with hepafilters on the exhaust. It's ridiculous.

Last but not least, I think it is foolish to smoke around children, not only because they MIGHT have an adverse reaction. That is an issue, children who see adults smoke might get the idea that smoking as an 'adult' thing. If I had kids I might quit, but I would at least not smoke around them so as not to impart a $2,000 a year habit on them. Whether they have the strongest of constitutions and can handle it physically or not is not the main issue.

There are many activities that adults should not do around children, drink excessiveley, any drugs, in fact if on medication the young ones should NOT know about it. Additionally adults should not argue heatedly in front of the kids. What I would do if that's where it's headed is make a motion with my head towards a bedroom or something. This means "We are not arguing in front of the kids, take it to the bedroom". If she refuses, too bad, if she's hot about something she will follow me to at least bitch at me. Problem solved. Not that I will not argue, but it will be done in private.

Incidentally, I have recently smoked around a child, but here are the circustances. She is sensitive to it, it bothers her, BUT. In my house I have a very very powerful ventilation system, I mean this started out as a commercial exhast fan, like for a restaurant kitchen. It had an 1100 RPM motor in it until it burned up, we replaced it with an 1800 RPM motor. It has about double it's original already quite large air flow. I have three main windows I keep open in the summer unless I run the AC and you can't light a match or a lighter in front of any of them. I am talking about the supposedly 'windproof' Zippo, yes. One with a really good wick and full of fuel might stay lit, but with the air velocity you can't light it.

We gave her a seat right next to a window, and she CAN smell cigarettes. Her Dad told me she would say something if it bothered her, she is a very polite little girl of 5 years, but not so polite so to not mention when something like this bothers her. She was in the wind tunnel, we could've set off a smoke bomb and she would not be the wiser, I assure you. In fact she had a blast and wants to come over again, however I don't know what we're going to do in the winter. I played an MPEG of one of the best cartoons I've downloaded, Knighty Knight Knight (Bugs and Yosemite) which is from the 50s or 60s. Actually the adults enjoyed it as well, but I was sure she had never seen it before. Like I said I don't know what we'll do if they come over in the winter, but we will do something, even if we have to snmoke outside for the duration of the visit. I might have to make a temporary rule, we smoke outside. Those who don't like it will go outside, those who will not abide by it will be leaving, that simple. The kid is a pleasure to be around, can listen and keep quiet during an adult conversation and actually participate some. Good conversation with intelligent adults is very important to a child's development, I have seen the results firsthand. This is way more important than my desire to smoke.

That court case bothers me quite a bit. Even if they had ordered her not to smoke around the kid, that is s pecific thing. It was mentioned that she can't smoke in the bathroom ? Damn it was bad enough the times they legislated what goes on in the bedroom, now the bathroom ? Damn, Nazism keeps looking better and better. Lose the bigotry and we might have something here.

Anyway, I saved the article so I might be able to quote it later. I have a feeling it will be bounced. Als, I will go now. I think I missed part of page eighteen so I want to go back and read it before posting further to the thread.

Be well. Go ahead and quit smoking if you can, but if you ask me not to smoke around you, at least be honest. Instead of harping on bad science or coughing and acting the fool like I'm killing you, just admit it. You are tempted. I can accept that reason, just like there are certain ex-alcoholics you can't drink around because they are not (yet) strong enough to resist. I got it through my head, someone is trying to improve themselves. Who am I to screw it up for them ?

T

(the numbered list and it's header counted as a paragraph makes this nine paragraphs I think, one under the 'limit' :-) )

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 370
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 1:48:11 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, it got bounced while I typed ! These Mods are on the ball !

Moderator11, link added ? By you ? If so, thanks. I was thinking the OP was going to have to go hunt it down.

T

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 371
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 2:02:41 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		MisstessLoreli;

"That's a freedom that we all should want to protect, because when we no longer have that freedom, we all lose.   "

To live without harm ? No Maam. In alot of parts of the US, the sale of gas masks is regulated like a weapon. GAS MASKS ? It is clear that few criminals use things that can be defended against with a gas mask, a flack jacket would be better. How is a gas mask a weapon ? You can throw it at somebody ? Well they better deal with these 16 lb. turkeys, bags of ice and many many other things. Who knows the mayhem one could cause with auto parts.

Actually a gas mask could be used as a weapon, against the wearer. With a gas mask on and the wearer restrained  all you have to do is cover the inlets. Hmmmmm, almost sounds like fun.

If you look at the body of "law" in this country it is clear that you do NOT have the right to protect yourself. The government shall decide who is to live and die. It was GWB as governor of Texas who refused to sign a stay of execution for a Man who had been PROVEN innocent, but outside of a time limitation. He was innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt. The case went to the Supreme Court which decided that the execution was lawful.

A innocent Man was executed in Texas, with full knowledge of his innocence to all the judges the case had gone through. Case law is a very bad thing.

T

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 372
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 3:30:22 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I am not sure how to set up a link to the article I posted, but maybe someone else who visits it can. Go to dennisprager.com, click on dennis writes, and the article is called "smoke and lose your son".

And by the way, I am not a smoker.

Oh cool, the link was already added. Thanks.

< Message edited by Estring -- 8/8/2006 3:45:05 PM >

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 373
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 3:44:06 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		It puzzles me that it is okay to ban smoking in the workplace, bars and restaurants, public areas such as stadiums, beaches, etc., because second hand smoke MAY have a link to some sds cases. How many newborns frequent the aforemetioned places? And if you are so concerned about children's health, should we ban junk food as well? Or not allow custody of a child because the parent in question has bad eating habits that would affect the child? Where does it end? And for your information, there are people as we speak who are going after junk food and fast food establishments.
If I smoked, I wouldn't do it around my child. It's too bad that all parents that smoke don't feel that way. But would it be more harmful to a child to smell some second hand smoke, or be denied even being with a parent because the parent smoked, as happened in the article that I posted? Children have nothing to do with the smoking ban that these "health fascists" ultimately want. It is all about power, and thinking they know what is best for everyone, rights be damned.  

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 374
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 4:13:25 PM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn

You are missing the point of the studies presented.  They show evidence that there are metabolic changes occurring in the children exposed to second hand smoke. 


I read those studies and a few of a like nature, once again i stand my ground; the only changes they showed were a drop in the levels of vitamin C. They were conducted without a blind study as well therefore the results have a high probability of being skewed.

 

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)
Profile   Post #: 375
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 4:27:45 PM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

Credible agencies are saying it's harmful and providing you with figures because they have examined autopsy reports.  The surgeon General has concluded that second hand smoke is killing people, and he likely has access to any autopsy report you could hope for. He doesn't base his findings on a random guess...."nonsmokers who live with a smoker have a 20%-30% higher risk of lung cancer because of exposure to secondhand smoke."  US Surgeon General


Credible government agencies may say what they wish, they have yet to provide proof.

quote:

  I don't suppose viewing individual reports would change your mind either.  I do not know the name and social security number of every dead person. If you don't care to believe the cdc, nih, epa,, the surgeon general, the american cancer society, etc who are telling you second hand smoke is harmful, how harmful it is, and telling you it is causing deaths of innocent people who don't smoke... then you are entitled to your own conclusions.


You do not need names and social security numbers to check the death stats in any of the above mentioned resources.

When i searched the data bases at the CDC and NIH i got verified by autopsy and physician reports on the fact that obesity causes death and disease and how and why. I got the same type of verified results for smoking, even for contaminated food.

Upon searching those very same data bases for any verified information on the effects of second hand smoke they had nothing other than the "may have, can have, is possible" inconclusive statements you see from every anti smoking group around. 

As for your Dr. Sears once again he makes statements as to his opinion, no proof.

quote:

Perhaps you can find an article from the cdc or nih showing us the healthful benefits of second hand smoke.  No one can make a case to the unreasonable...


Unreasonable? Me? I have provided facts through the very government agencies you quoted, you have so far provided nothing but the same self serving statements i have read so often i can recite them from memory. You want to reason, provide me with evidence i can base my reasoning on.

Or are you feeling a little unreasonable because you cannot?

If you can find any statement of mine in which i state that second hand smoke is good for you feel free to copy and paste it to me please.

I only stated that until some one can show me verifiable proof that second hand smoke is the demon from hell killer that you claim i will hold my ground.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

Very true.  It has all been said, but unless you supply the actual reports, with autopsy records bearing an official seal (embossed only) to TwiceHappy... it seems any such  findings or conclusions from any reputable agency (government or otherwise) are inaccurate and irrelevant.


My my we are getting a little cranky and vindictive now aren't we?

My posts so far have only been based on or asking for facts. As i stated earlier any facts i gave you are just that, verifiable facts from the same agencies you got your findings from. The difference?

From the dictionary:

Main Entry: fact
the quality of being actual : ACTUALITY <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
 
Main Entry: finding

the result of a judicial examination or inquiry b : the results of an investigation -- usually used in plural : findings 

Facts hinge on evidence, findings are the result of examing pieces and drawing a conclusion.


_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
Profile   Post #: 376
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 4:30:58 PM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

It puzzles me that it is okay to ban smoking in the workplace, bars and restaurants, public areas such as stadiums, beaches, etc., because second hand smoke MAY have a link to some sds cases. How many newborns frequent the aforemetioned places? And if you are so concerned about children's health, should we ban junk food as well? Or not allow custody of a child because the parent in question has bad eating habits that would affect the child? Where does it end? And for your information, there are people as we speak who are going after junk food and fast food establishments.

Children have nothing to do with the smoking ban that these "health fascists" ultimately want. It is all about power, and thinking they know what is best for everyone, rights be damned.  


Excellent points every one!

And on a further note i did not start smoking until 6 years ago so never smoked around my kids, neither did their dad, he smoked in the bedroom or outside.

< Message edited by twicehappy -- 8/8/2006 4:45:07 PM >

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 377
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 9:05:38 PM   
StrongButKind


Posts: 136
Joined: 10/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I respect non smokers and win't light up if it bothers them, but, there is some real bullshit going around these days.It is utterly impossible for second hand smoke to be more dangerous to people than to the smoker himself. After all the smoker is in the closest proximity to the smoke.

T


I really don't want in on this debate; however, as a point of fact your statement that second hand smoke could not be more dangerous to others is quite incorrect. The other person could have concomitant conditions (allergy, asthma, heart disease, etc. etc.) with exposure to second hand smoke that make that exposure significantly riskier than primary inhalation.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 378
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 9:32:38 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Strong....;

That is not waht I am saying. What I am saying is that in no way do we have to accomodate all of you wihout the requisite physical constitution to handle smoke. You are free to open your own places of business and designate them smoke free, even in the parking lot if you own the property. What I am saying is that we need a line in the sand here, your rights end where mine begin. When I was young there were bars where there were alot of shootings, thus my Parents did not take me there. Get it ?

The guy who owned that bar had no problems with the shootings, but he did charge to get rid of the body if the customer didn't do it. The place was gone and everyone was in jail before I was even close to drinking age. But that was the owner's choices. He ran it as he saw fit.

If needed, I will start a 'dinner club' for smokers. We all smoke and about seven of us kick in like $10 a week. Every Saturday we get together and eat, making sure we all have all the peripherals we need, our favorite aparatif(s) and, of course, cigarettes. Even pot if you want. Bust me. We will fight to the last Man for our rights.

Wake up. We have agred to be reasonable, how about it ?

T

(in reply to StrongButKind)
Profile   Post #: 379
RE: Second hand smoke - 8/8/2006 9:46:07 PM   
StrongButKind


Posts: 136
Joined: 10/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Strong....;

That is not waht I am saying. What I am saying is that in no way do we have to accomodate all of you wihout the requisite physical constitution to handle smoke. You are free to open your own places of business and designate them smoke free, even in the parking lot if you own the property. What I am saying is that we need a line in the sand here, your rights end where mine begin. When I was young there were bars where there were alot of shootings, thus my Parents did not take me there. Get it ?

The guy who owned that bar had no problems with the shootings, but he did charge to get rid of the body if the customer didn't do it. The place was gone and everyone was in jail before I was even close to drinking age. But that was the owner's choices. He ran it as he saw fit.

If needed, I will start a 'dinner club' for smokers. We all smoke and about seven of us kick in like $10 a week. Every Saturday we get together and eat, making sure we all have all the peripherals we need, our favorite aparatif(s) and, of course, cigarettes. Even pot if you want. Bust me. We will fight to the last Man for our rights.

Wake up. We have agred to be reasonable, how about it ?

T


I'm not disputing that. As it happens, I tend to agree with you, and, despite the profound health risks of smoking, oppose smoking bans as it really isn't the government's place to tell people how to run their homes and businesses. As I said, I don't want to join that debate. But your statement about the smoke necessarily being more harmful to the smoker is inaccurate.

Also, your plans to open a dinner club and fight to the last, while wonderful and profoundly American in the least evolved sense, hardly fall in the category of agreeing to be reasonable. May I suggest "Wake up. We have agreed to be awesome, how about it?" I could probably be persuaded to kick in the $70 for you one week. I mean this in all seriousness, people like you are so important to the future of this country, it's frightening to admit that it's true. Try not to own too many guns, but otherwise, please keep doing your thing. We need more of that.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 380
Page:   <<   < prev  17 18 [19] 20 21   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Second hand smoke Page: <<   < prev  17 18 [19] 20 21   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109