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LadyPact -> RE: So, maybe I could have been more diplomatic (1/15/2016 11:06:45 AM)
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ORIGINAL: crumpets
Gotta agree with you on that!
Oh, absolutely.
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I assume the myriad and sundry lurkers pay the bills, so my assertion to follow depends on that as an assumption (owners of clubs can certainly tell me otherwise as I take correction well).
Now, I won't bullsh^t you. I don't take direction well. LOL.
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That makes the "regulars" the "talent". The regulars, who tend to have play partners and prepared scenes, are the "show". Otherwise, it's just a room full of people, which, I guess, is fine and dandy, but, they make bars for that purpose of meet and greet.
There are some people here that I definitely consider the "talent". One is a rope guy that is just amazing. Most people don't impress me but this guy does because his rope is his art. He can do some pretty amazing things.
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And then ... there are times that I don't!
:)
Yeah, well, I wasn't entirely sure how this thread was going to go over, either. I could have been seen as the outright asshole. [8D]
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I liked the older place where they had that back elevated area, with the same Saint Andrew's Cross mounted just as it was in the new Edges, so, as a carryover, that was nice (in addition to the other equipment).
There's been at least three moves in the last five years or so, right? It's been a while for me.
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Alex and Allie were wonderful, and Alex always gave me good advice, especially as I had asked about the rules if the police show up - and he patiently explained that, in California, it's a crime, basically, to spank someone (and leave any kind of marks), so, we were to dress immediately and leave if the alarm sounded, for example.
I did not have the opportunity to meet Alex. I spoke at length with Allie electronically and she was working the desk the time that I went. I liked her. She had the right balance of welcoming, while keeping the business side clear. Something staff has to have.
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I remember Alex let me rent his play space for cheap. Something like $60 an hour, which, if you think about it, is a fantastic deal (I was doing a photo op at the time, with a friend).
This particular club mentioned in the OP does that, too. They have a great rate if somebody wants to just come and do pictures. Doing an actual private play party is a little more but I'd be willing to pay it *if* there were a special occasion. In my opinion, they really don't ask for much.
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Thinking harder about it, I think I had spoken too soon.
Clearly the local dungeons have mandatory orientations which cover such stuff.
But, as I think back, only the Power Exchange and the swingers clubs had "CLEARLY" delineated spaces. Most of the swinger's clubs were in residences, so doors were the delineation, while the ropes with the clip were downstairs in the Power Exchange. The power exchange also had prison cells, and little rooms all over the place, further delineating things.
I think some of it depends if the club is what is known as "sex positive". (Meaning public clubs, not private house parties.) As you know, this is a fine line to walk and organizers/clubs/hosts have to be very careful that a door fee isn't interpreted as paying for sex upon entry. BDSM clubs that double as swinger events have special concerns in this area.
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So, I do agree, now that I think more deeply about it. I don't remember Edges having a painted line or anything like that. Citadel is kind'a far for me, but when I was there, it seemed more like a multi-bar dance club than anything else. Same with the bar that is Bondage-a-GoGo on Wednesdays, as I recall.
I haven't been to the Citadel. I've seen a lot of discussions that are pro and against the space. Not the space, itself, but there has been a lot of talk about who they will allow entry. I can't support that.
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So, that makes it doubly hard for you, the a priori scene maker, to communicate/convey/enforce boundary conditions (which you shouldn't have to do as that is mostly the House's responsibility).
I don't know if that's entirely possible. No top can convey boundaries to onlookers that walk up mid-scene.
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I don't mind paying them either, as the bills gotta get paid - except that, for a single male, any payment is generally a waste of money and time and effort most of the time, so, unless I'm with a date (in which case, they're generally fun for her as she is usually a newbie), I don't bother anymore.
As a female top, I'm not going to disagree with you on this. I have a pretty good success rate when it comes to pick up play. I'm a chick who can crack a whip, so automatically, I have certain advantages.
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It's the young wolves who lavishly spend their money endlessly seeking out the sheep, as I once was.
These days, I think it's spread out over age groups. There's a great TNG presence here but they aren't alone. This is probably one of the best mix areas that I've ever seen.
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Agreed. I think "regulars" who give "good show" should also be exempt, but I leave all that to the owners to decide. I think the South Bay Spot allows working volunteers in free, right?
When I'm not presenting and am just coming to play like everybody else, I expect to pay like everybody else. It's not the same as being responsible for an organized class. If I choose to teach during regular play time, I can say yes, no, or I'm busy.
Many places allow volunteers to enter for free. Most are good people and do a good job. I was reading an article yesterday about results of a survey about how leaders, presenters, and volunteers have such a higher rate of engaging in consent violations. In my opinion, we have to work on that.
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Bear in mind at most swingers clubs, and, I think, at the Power Exchange too, females (or those dressed as females) get in free, as, I think, do couples get a reduced rate. They only rape the single males, of which there are many.
I'm not sure how to address this. At swinger events, there is often a different price structure, which some could say is discriminatory to single males. At the same time, if your swingers event is a sausage fest, you're not going to get the women to go. How do we balance this so that everyone is treated well financially as well as socially? It's certainly interesting to think about.
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Can't disagree.
Players are what gives the club it's rep, while the various and sundry lurkers give 'em their cash.
Both are required for a successful business (even if they, technically, are 'clubs').
In my opinion, rep is now more important than ever. "Bad things happen there" will kill a business. When's the last time you continued to eat at a restaurant that was reported to have roaches?
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Yup. I think the lurkers rotate more so than become regulars, but, you'd know better than I since I only sporadically lurked myself, except for a while at the latest Edges (just when the City of San Jose was coming down hard on Alex for trumped-up "zoning violations", which eventually, I guess, closed him down.
We live in the post 'internet explosion' and the '50 Shades' revolution. We have more clubs, munches, cons, and groups than we ever have before.
And some of this is good. But, it's coming with a price.
We're not doing so hot in the territory of consent violations. Heck, I'd challenge darn near anybody to read Fet for a month to see what's happening in our communities. These issues must be addressed.
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The DM is a volunteer, and the DM is busy, and they can't be everywhere, as you noted.
So, while it "is" first the responsibility of the house (during orientation) to set boundaries, and then second the responsibility of the DM to enforce boundaries, it was left thirdly to you, as the concentee, to set the boundaries (and fifth, to the common sense of the lurkee).
The DM class that I started doing about five years ago runs about four hours long. One of the people who helped me write it is in your neck of the woods. He's an awesome educator and wonderful DM. You probably know him.
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Makes sense. I was just bringing up the responsibilities point, and the fact that there are ways to chastise a customer such that he never returns, or, such that he returns a better behaved person, and which anyone uses depends on what they want as an outcome for the house (which, let's never forget, is a business, even if it's legally structured as a club).
The lesson could go either way, couldn't it? The person might never come back. The possibility also exists that, if he comes back, he knows what will happen if he tries to grab somebody's ass. [;)]
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