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RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/26/2016 10:49:17 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Bounty, you do realise that your "shocking" story goes back to 2010 dont you? before the crackdown on fetal tissue started?
You didnt know that?
you know why?
Because all the video evidence has been found to contain lies and deceptive editing, HENCE the indictment of the CMP people.
SO PLEASE stop pretending that your post is evidence of anything legally wrong
your morals REALLY arent up to snuff on what anyone else thinks, thats Your problem not mine.
I bet you didnt even read all of my links,because you have zero intellectual honesty, you are a sad little joke.




Bullshit. The indictment of the CMP people was for creating a false id. Nothing else.

Hmmmmmmmmm one felony and one misdemeanour..
All the other ten states have found nothing regarding the videos.


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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/26/2016 10:52:22 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

its not about timing relative to a fetal tissue crackdown, its about what planned parenthood does and is doing. all I said was "more news", so the date is really irrelevant.

unless of course you can show that the present law was written much later? but the lie still remains.

however, the byline on the article is: "Steven Ertelt Jan 22, 2016 | 1:01PM Madison, WI " and the press release in question from pp is from January of this year.

so, sorry comrades, its news right now.

lies and deceptive editing? ah, you are channeling joether I see.

what lies were there exactly and how was the editing "deceptive" such that it didn't represent reality?

and whats more, the indictment had to do with the false drivers licenses and the offer to buy fetal tissue---nothing whatsoever to do with your "lies and deceptive editing" if you want to argue, using logic would be good.

consistent with that, since you didn't quite seem to get this:

quote:

the issue isn't whether planned parenthood is or is not selling aborted baby parts, THEY ARE. there is no dispute over that. the issue is whether or not they are selling them in compliance with the existing law and in at least some of the cases discovered by the "assholes" in Lucy's post, it appears they are not.


note the no presumption of "guilt" in my writing and the circumspect language of "appears"---thus the investigations.

that said, in this case, its less about the law to me, and more about morality and not only is abortion in almost all cases morally despicable, the selling of aborted baby parts adds more icing onto it.

as for all the other ranting, when you cant make arguments, resorting to insults only suffices for lefties.


You didnt even respond to any of my links , just put forth "baby killers" ,
Yes insults are all you have left when you have no facts.
Your Morality, stops WAY before my nose. AND every woman of childbearing age.
Its the law.



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(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/26/2016 1:35:30 PM   
bounty44


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things you'll never hear from the pro abortion side (and the irony, given we hear so much about "women's health"):

(and aside from the fact that's almost 100% fatal to the baby)

"Summary of Known Health-Risks of Abortion"

quote:

In an increasingly health-conscious society, why does abortion lack a “warning label?” Numerous, welldocumented studies in peer-reviewed medical journals demonstrate that abortion poses significant medical risks for women.

1. Abortion has undisputed immediate health risks.

The undisputed risks of immediate medical complications from abortion include blood clots, hemorrhage, incomplete abortions, infection, and injury to the cervix and other organs.1 Abortion can also cause cardiac arrest, respiratory arrest, renal failure, metabolic disorder, shock, and missed ectopic pregnancy.

Immediate medical complications affect approximately 10 percent of women undergoing abortions, and approximately one-fifth of these complications are life threatening.2

2. Studies reveal that the long-term physical and psychological consequences of abortion include an increased risk of:
◦subsequent preterm birth;
◦placenta previa (a complication during pregnancy where the placenta partially or totally covers the mother’s cervix and which can cause severe bleeding before or during delivery);
◦serious mental health problems;
◦breast cancer as a result of the loss of the protective effect of a first full-term pregnancy;
◦miscarriage;
◦and death.

3. The known, substantial health risks of chemical abortions may be significantly underreported.

Because of its known dangers, the use of the mifepristone and misoprostol chemical abortion drug regimen (also commonly referred to as “RU-486”) has been strictly regulated by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). On its website, the FDA notes, “Since its approval in September 2000, the [FDA] has received reports of serious adverse events, including several deaths, in the United States following medical abortion with mifepristone and misoprostol.” A 2011 FDA report31 accounts for at least 2,207 cases of severe adverse events, including hemorrhaging, blood loss requiring transfusions, serious infection, and death.

Thousands of reported instances of serious adverse events, including death, already raises alarm. The concern for women’s health and safety is heightened when considering the known inadequacies of what is being reported to the FDA about chemical abortions and that FDA reports capture “only a small proportion of events that actually occur.”


since its planned parenthood (pretty bad misnaming there by the way) on the table, a small aside:

quote:

Only after women died and suffered serious infections did Planned Parenthood stop the vaginal use of misoprostol, an off-label use never approved by the FDA. In her “whistleblower” lawsuit filed against Planned Parenthood of the Heartland, Sue Thayer alleges that, lacking the ability to care for these women at their own facilities, Planned Parenthood’s “telemed” chemical abortion patients who later experienced significant bleeding were told “to go to an emergency room and report that they were experiencing a spontaneous miscarriage.”


http://www.realhealthcarerespectslife.com/summary-of-known-health-risks-of-abortion/

this next bunch is particularly good in that it (and a lot of good material at the site) comes from a convert:

"How Abortion Hurts Women: The Hard Proof"

quote:

In order to persuade the personally opposed pro-choicer like me, then, we must address this 1970s feminist fallacy that abortion is necessary for womens sexual equality and well-being. In point of fact, medical evidence, sociological data, and the lived experience of many women tell a very different story: Abortion harms women physically, psychologically, relationally, and culturally.

Heres the proof.

Women who have had abortions suffer an increased risk of anxiety, depression, and suicide
A study published in a recent edition of the Journal of Anxiety Disorders found that women who aborted their unintended pregnancies were 30 percent more likely to subsequently report all the symptoms of generalized anxiety disorder than those women who had carried their unintended pregnancies to term. A study of a state-funded medical insurance program in California published in the American Journal of Orthopsychiatry in 2002 showed that the rate of mental health claims for women who aborted was 17 percent higher than those who had carried their children to term. And, according to a 1996 article in the British Medical Journal and a 2002 article in the Southern Medical Journal, the risk of death from suicide is two to six times higher for women who have had abortions when compared, again, with women who have given birth. [the website gives all the references]

Abortions Second Victim

Its no wonder that 81 percent of women surveyed in a 1992 study reported in the Journal of Social Issues said they felt victimized by the abortion process, and that they were either coerced into the abortion or that information about alternatives or the actual procedure had been withheld.


http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/controversy/abortion/how-abortion-hurts-women-the-hard-proof.html

more, as if that weren't already enough, a little more with some overlap:

"How abortion hurts women"

quote:

Medical, psychological evidence shows that abortion poses numerous risks
Psychological risks of abortion

In addition to its risks to a woman’s physical health, abortion can have negative psycho-social consequences. A 2011 meta-analysis published in the British Journal of Psychiatry found an 81 percent increased risk of mental health problems among women who had undergone abortions; nearly 10 percent of the incidence of psychological problems was directly attributable to abortion. These problems included anxiety, depression, alcohol use, drug use and suicidal behavior.

A large-scale Finnish study found that the suicide rate following abortion was nearly six times greater than the suicide rate following childbirth. Conversely, although abortion is sometimes justified on the basis of mental health, a 2013 study concluded that the termination of unintended pregnancies had no therapeutic psychological benefit.

Abortion can also damage a woman’s relationships with her partner and others and can adversely affect men and children. Many women and men now regret their decision to procure or encourage an abortion, and many seek support and help to deal with their grief.


http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/news/2013/08/how-abortion-hurts-women/#.Vqfkb7n2aic

and lastly:

"Abortion Harms Women"

quote:

Psychological Effects of Abortion

•Alcoholism – Abortion doubles the risk of alcoholism in women.[4] Studies have shown an increased risk of alcohol abuse during subsequent pregnancies following an abortion.[5]

•Child Abuse – Abortion is linked to depression, violent behavior, and difficulty in bonding to children born subsequent to an aborted pregnancy. One study indicated that women who had an abortion history reported more frequent slapping, hitting, kicking or biting, beating, and use of physical punishment compared to women without an abortion history.[6]

•Divorce and Relationship Problems – Many post-abortive women have trouble forming lasting bonds and report substantial conflict within their relationships.[7]

•Drug Abuse – Abortion is linked to subsequent drug abuse. One study found that the use of illicit drugs among post-abortive women is 6.1 times higher than for those without a history of abortion.[8] Another study showed that post-abortive women were 4.5 times more likely to abuse drugs during subsequent pregnancies.[9]

•Post Abortion Syndrome (PAS) – At least 19 percent of women who have had abortions suffer from PAS. About half of women who have had abortions suffer from many, but not all, of the symptoms of PAS. The symptoms include anxiety attacks, irritability, outbursts of rage, sleep difficulties, flashbacks of the abortion experience, reactions of intense grief on the date of abortion or the baby’s due date, nightmares about the abortion, and drug or alcohol abuse.[10] The best evidence regarding negative effects of abortion indicates that 10-30 percent will experience serious psychological problems.[11]

•Psychological Impairment – Women with a history of abortion are 81 percent more likely to encounter psychological health problems.[12] This includes a 34 percent greater risk of anxiety issues and a 37 percent higher rate of depression.[13]

•Repeat Abortions – Studies indicate that nearly half of all abortions are repeat abortions that carry risks such as substance abuse and premature birth in subsequent pregnancies.[14] Women who have undergone repeat abortions are also 80 percent more likely to experience vaginal bleeding in subsequent pregnancies, greatly increasing the risk of perinatal mortality.[15]

•Sleep Disorders – Women who underwent abortions were twice as likely to seek treatment for sleep disorders in the first six months after pregnancy than women who had given birth. The higher risk for sleep disorders persisted for four years following an abortion, although not at as high a level.[16]

•Suicide – One study of post-abortive women in California found that those who elected to have an abortion were 2.6 times more likely to die of suicide compared to those that carried their babies to term.[17]

•Thoughts of Suicide – A study published in 2009 indicated that post-abortive women are 60 percent more likely to experience thoughts of suicide following the procedure.[18]


http://azpolicypages.com/life/abortion-harms-women/

focusing for a moment on just the psychological health---given such devastating effects, we're left with the questions:

is the cause of them because the pro-lifers are out there are causing this horrible dissonance and conflict?

or the more likely, women, who are equipped to be mothers (oh no comrades, a traditional view espoused!) have an internal sense of the grievous wrong that has been committed and they simply cannot deal with it?

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 1/26/2016 1:49:05 PM >

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/26/2016 1:53:08 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Uh catholic education, in particular, do you know if the studies were written by the Jesuits and bishops and cardinals simultaneously as they were molesting the boys?
Do you have a cite on that? before, during, after; if you have it.

And the rest of your studies are equally suspect, since there are no causal links or levels of confidence, they dont meet even the profoundly untruthful necessary and sufficient conditions to be a nutsucker internet poll.



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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/26/2016 2:22:24 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
OMG! The videos were fraudulent? Who woulda thunk it? Planned Parenthood wasn't really selling itty bitty parts of itty bitty unborn babies? Who you gonna believe? the right wing evangelical douche bags or your own trust in decency and honesty on the Left?


Actually, they were selling parts.

But, they were doing it according to the laws. IOW, they weren't doing anything illegal.

I could have sworn I read a little snippet saying that the pair also had to come up with legal fees for the defendants. If that's the case, I most definitely applaud that, and look forward to more cases following that precedent.


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What I support:

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(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/26/2016 5:21:06 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
OMG! The videos were fraudulent? Who woulda thunk it? Planned Parenthood wasn't really selling itty bitty parts of itty bitty unborn babies? Who you gonna believe? the right wing evangelical douche bags or your own trust in decency and honesty on the Left?


Actually, they were selling parts.

But, they were doing it according to the laws. IOW, they weren't doing anything illegal.

I could have sworn I read a little snippet saying that the pair also had to come up with legal fees for the defendants. If that's the case, I most definitely applaud that, and look forward to more cases following that precedent.



I don't know DS.

In most cases, if you file a case vs someone, you may be required to pay fees. But in this case, the tape producers AFAIK did nothing to file a case against Planned parenthood.

Do you know otherwise?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/26/2016 6:46:17 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
OMG! The videos were fraudulent? Who woulda thunk it? Planned Parenthood wasn't really selling itty bitty parts of itty bitty unborn babies? Who you gonna believe? the right wing evangelical douche bags or your own trust in decency and honesty on the Left?

Actually, they were selling parts.
But, they were doing it according to the laws. IOW, they weren't doing anything illegal.
I could have sworn I read a little snippet saying that the pair also had to come up with legal fees for the defendants. If that's the case, I most definitely applaud that, and look forward to more cases following that precedent.

I don't know DS.
In most cases, if you file a case vs someone, you may be required to pay fees. But in this case, the tape producers AFAIK did nothing to file a case against Planned parenthood.
Do you know otherwise?


Nope. My error.

Money was spent in defense of Planned Parenthood, by Planned Parenthood. The main reason were the videos. So, the video creators (maybe just the editors) were libelous? Slanderous?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 12:02:12 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
OMG! The videos were fraudulent? Who woulda thunk it? Planned Parenthood wasn't really selling itty bitty parts of itty bitty unborn babies? Who you gonna believe? the right wing evangelical douche bags or your own trust in decency and honesty on the Left?


Actually, they were selling parts.

But, they were doing it according to the laws. IOW, they weren't doing anything illegal.

I could have sworn I read a little snippet saying that the pair also had to come up with legal fees for the defendants. If that's the case, I most definitely applaud that, and look forward to more cases following that precedent.



In addition to following the law, PPH was also following strict bio-ethical standards. Very fascinating stuff if you ever get some time to examine it. Now if only their accusers had as high ethical standards to their 'reporting of information'.....

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 12:16:01 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
OMG! The videos were fraudulent? Who woulda thunk it? Planned Parenthood wasn't really selling itty bitty parts of itty bitty unborn babies? Who you gonna believe? the right wing evangelical douche bags or your own trust in decency and honesty on the Left?

Actually, they were selling parts.
But, they were doing it according to the laws. IOW, they weren't doing anything illegal.
I could have sworn I read a little snippet saying that the pair also had to come up with legal fees for the defendants. If that's the case, I most definitely applaud that, and look forward to more cases following that precedent.

I don't know DS.
In most cases, if you file a case vs someone, you may be required to pay fees. But in this case, the tape producers AFAIK did nothing to file a case against Planned parenthood.
Do you know otherwise?


Nope. My error.

Money was spent in defense of Planned Parenthood, by Planned Parenthood. The main reason were the videos. So, the video creators (maybe just the editors) were libelous? Slanderous?



Potentially. But you can't hold CMP liable for damages until they are in fact tried and found guilty, in a civil case for that purpose. Which is the last thing that Planned Parenthood would want to do. Lawyers for CMP would then be able to deposition financials, witness testimony.

In order for cmp to be found guilty of libel / slander planned parenthood ould have to demonstrate that something they said wasn't true. And planned parenthood does not want more information coming out in trial.

Finally, I saw a line that said CMP was a shell company formed for the purpose of releasing these videos. It doubtless has little or no assets.
They might be able to go after the two people individually - but the legal fees will be in excess of 5-10 million. And there is no way they would recover that.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 6:48:41 AM   
mnottertail


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and its not that they want something not coming out, its that there is nothing to recover from the deadbeat nutsuckers.

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 6:59:19 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
OMG! The videos were fraudulent? Who woulda thunk it? Planned Parenthood wasn't really selling itty bitty parts of itty bitty unborn babies? Who you gonna believe? the right wing evangelical douche bags or your own trust in decency and honesty on the Left?

Actually, they were selling parts.
But, they were doing it according to the laws. IOW, they weren't doing anything illegal.
I could have sworn I read a little snippet saying that the pair also had to come up with legal fees for the defendants. If that's the case, I most definitely applaud that, and look forward to more cases following that precedent.

I don't know DS.
In most cases, if you file a case vs someone, you may be required to pay fees. But in this case, the tape producers AFAIK did nothing to file a case against Planned parenthood.
Do you know otherwise?


Nope. My error.

Money was spent in defense of Planned Parenthood, by Planned Parenthood. The main reason were the videos. So, the video creators (maybe just the editors) were libelous? Slanderous?



Potentially. But you can't hold CMP liable for damages until they are in fact tried and found guilty, in a civil case for that purpose. Which is the last thing that Planned Parenthood would want to do. Lawyers for CMP would then be able to deposition financials, witness testimony.

In order for cmp to be found guilty of libel / slander planned parenthood ould have to demonstrate that something they said wasn't true. And planned parenthood does not want more information coming out in trial.

Finally, I saw a line that said CMP was a shell company formed for the purpose of releasing these videos. It doubtless has little or no assets.
They might be able to go after the two people individually - but the legal fees will be in excess of 5-10 million. And there is no way they would recover that.


Your full of shit. And CMP is full of shit. You really believe that people are just as easily to silence due to threats and fears as you would be in the same situation. In that trial, it will not be hard for PPH to show damages caused by this organization's lies and deceit. One only has to watch the three hour video, THEN, the nine short 'films' from CMP to understand the political motivation to slander the organization. CMP wanted to undermine PPH before the nation by saying PPH was making a profit off abortions; when reality shows PPH does nothing of the such.

If it is a shell company, then maybe we need to bring in the FBI and NSA to determine....WHO....are the actual wrong doers to all of this. Expose them, then drag them before court so they too can be properly handled by the justice department! If it is a shell company, it would be VERY interesting to see whose morals are 'OK' at lashing out from shadows and trickery rather then backing honest and in the open about it. How much you want to make a bet it comes from conservative people whom are very influential and rich?

I dont think you understand that no one is going to back down through you use of 'fear politics'!

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 7:11:21 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
OMG! The videos were fraudulent? Who woulda thunk it? Planned Parenthood wasn't really selling itty bitty parts of itty bitty unborn babies? Who you gonna believe? the right wing evangelical douche bags or your own trust in decency and honesty on the Left?

Actually, they were selling parts.
But, they were doing it according to the laws. IOW, they weren't doing anything illegal.
I could have sworn I read a little snippet saying that the pair also had to come up with legal fees for the defendants. If that's the case, I most definitely applaud that, and look forward to more cases following that precedent.

I don't know DS.
In most cases, if you file a case vs someone, you may be required to pay fees. But in this case, the tape producers AFAIK did nothing to file a case against Planned parenthood.
Do you know otherwise?

Nope. My error.
Money was spent in defense of Planned Parenthood, by Planned Parenthood. The main reason were the videos. So, the video creators (maybe just the editors) were libelous? Slanderous?

Potentially. But you can't hold CMP liable for damages until they are in fact tried and found guilty, in a civil case for that purpose. Which is the last thing that Planned Parenthood would want to do. Lawyers for CMP would then be able to deposition financials, witness testimony.
In order for cmp to be found guilty of libel / slander planned parenthood ould have to demonstrate that something they said wasn't true. And planned parenthood does not want more information coming out in trial.
Finally, I saw a line that said CMP was a shell company formed for the purpose of releasing these videos. It doubtless has little or no assets.
They might be able to go after the two people individually - but the legal fees will be in excess of 5-10 million. And there is no way they would recover that.


The message of the videos was untrue. The raw footage was deceptively edited to paint PP as acting illegally. Having been found to not have been acting illegally, wouldn't that make the released videos "not true?"

How much was spent by PP in court due to the videos? That should be recoverable, imo. Please note that unintentionally wrong accusations shouldn't necessarily result in the accuser having to pay the defense's legal fees, but intentionally wrong accusers should. The deceptive editing strikes me as being intentional.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 1:03:28 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
OMG! The videos were fraudulent? Who woulda thunk it? Planned Parenthood wasn't really selling itty bitty parts of itty bitty unborn babies? Who you gonna believe? the right wing evangelical douche bags or your own trust in decency and honesty on the Left?

Actually, they were selling parts.
But, they were doing it according to the laws. IOW, they weren't doing anything illegal.
I could have sworn I read a little snippet saying that the pair also had to come up with legal fees for the defendants. If that's the case, I most definitely applaud that, and look forward to more cases following that precedent.

I don't know DS.
In most cases, if you file a case vs someone, you may be required to pay fees. But in this case, the tape producers AFAIK did nothing to file a case against Planned parenthood.
Do you know otherwise?

Nope. My error.
Money was spent in defense of Planned Parenthood, by Planned Parenthood. The main reason were the videos. So, the video creators (maybe just the editors) were libelous? Slanderous?

Potentially. But you can't hold CMP liable for damages until they are in fact tried and found guilty, in a civil case for that purpose. Which is the last thing that Planned Parenthood would want to do. Lawyers for CMP would then be able to deposition financials, witness testimony.
In order for cmp to be found guilty of libel / slander planned parenthood ould have to demonstrate that something they said wasn't true. And planned parenthood does not want more information coming out in trial.
Finally, I saw a line that said CMP was a shell company formed for the purpose of releasing these videos. It doubtless has little or no assets.
They might be able to go after the two people individually - but the legal fees will be in excess of 5-10 million. And there is no way they would recover that.


The message of the videos was untrue. The raw footage was deceptively edited to paint PP as acting illegally. Having been found to not have been acting illegally, wouldn't that make the released videos "not true?"

How much was spent by PP in court due to the videos? That should be recoverable, imo. Please note that unintentionally wrong accusations shouldn't necessarily result in the accuser having to pay the defense's legal fees, but intentionally wrong accusers should. The deceptive editing strikes me as being intentional.




That money IS recoverable (within the limits I said before) if PP wants to drag CMP into court.

C'mon people get familiar with elementary civil protections. If Party A wants to take something from Party B - the mechanism to do that is court.

Legal protections aren't just for gitmo detainees...

Finally - you state the videos were deceptively edited as if thats established fact.
That certainly has not been done in a legal arena.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 1/27/2016 1:04:01 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 1:37:44 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
OMG! The videos were fraudulent? Who woulda thunk it? Planned Parenthood wasn't really selling itty bitty parts of itty bitty unborn babies? Who you gonna believe? the right wing evangelical douche bags or your own trust in decency and honesty on the Left?

Actually, they were selling parts.
But, they were doing it according to the laws. IOW, they weren't doing anything illegal.
I could have sworn I read a little snippet saying that the pair also had to come up with legal fees for the defendants. If that's the case, I most definitely applaud that, and look forward to more cases following that precedent.

I don't know DS.
In most cases, if you file a case vs someone, you may be required to pay fees. But in this case, the tape producers AFAIK did nothing to file a case against Planned parenthood.
Do you know otherwise?


Nope. My error.

Money was spent in defense of Planned Parenthood, by Planned Parenthood. The main reason were the videos. So, the video creators (maybe just the editors) were libelous? Slanderous?



Potentially. But you can't hold CMP liable for damages until they are in fact tried and found guilty, in a civil case for that purpose. Which is the last thing that Planned Parenthood would want to do. Lawyers for CMP would then be able to deposition financials, witness testimony.

In order for cmp to be found guilty of libel / slander planned parenthood ould have to demonstrate that something they said wasn't true. And planned parenthood does not want more information coming out in trial.

Finally, I saw a line that said CMP was a shell company formed for the purpose of releasing these videos. It doubtless has little or no assets.
They might be able to go after the two people individually - but the legal fees will be in excess of 5-10 million. And there is no way they would recover that.


Your full of shit.

Exactly where, do you think, Huffing either. I realize in the delusional liberal dystopia you inhabit, people that say things you don't like can be shot, killed at your whim, but thats not how it works out here in the real world. I outlined what civil procedure is here.


And, for the record, PP is doing exactly what I outlined.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/01/planned-parenthood-fetal-tissue-videos-breaking-news

quote:



And CMP is full of shit. You really believe that people are just as easily to silence due to threats and fears as you would be in the same situation. In that trial, it will not be hard for PPH to show damages caused by this organization's lies and deceit. One only has to watch the three hour video, THEN, the nine short 'films' from CMP to understand the political motivation to slander the organization. CMP wanted to undermine PPH before the nation by saying PPH was making a profit off abortions; when reality shows PPH does nothing of the such.


I didn't say that PP couldn't prove damages. That part is easy.

Proving that what CMP said was FALSE is another matter entirely. You say that the videos were deceptively edited. CMP has many potential defenses.
CMP will be entitled to mount a defense; it will be entitled to subpoena witnesses and documents. If CMP can prove by such that the videos significantly document the facts on the ground - cmp wins.

Can it? Beats me. Now it becomes a question of how well funded CMP will be.

quote:



If it is a shell company, then maybe we need to bring in the FBI and NSA to determine....WHO....are the actual wrong doers to all of this.


Do you really have no ideas of the boundaries of government? A private plaintiff has no right wiretap information. You are one scary dude, ether. Perhaps you think the democrats should be able to wiretap with impunity?

quote:

Expose them, then drag them before court so they too can be properly handled by the justice department! If it is a shell company, it would be VERY interesting to see whose morals are 'OK' at lashing out from shadows and trickery rather then backing honest and in the open about it. How much you want to make a bet it comes from conservative people whom are very influential and rich?


Lets make one thing straight - establishing a company to limit legal liability is one of the reasons one establishes a company, and it is written into the statues of every state in the union, and internationally for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Suppose you're a rich guy and you and nine of your buddies want to fund a merchant trip to china. Risky. The merchant can be capture by pirates, or sunk in a storm. But if successful - wildly profitable.

If you chartered the boat yourself - and it sank - your 9 buddies could come after you to make them whole. So rather than do that - you all put money into a company. And that way the limit of your liabilities is whatever money you put into the company.

For the love of g-d man - please learn something about public and private law; and the role of restricted government.

quote:


I dont think you understand that no one is going to back down through you use of 'fear politics'!


First of all - I said or did nothing that can be called "fear politics"

That said - planned parenthood has sued in one of the most liberal states (california); the ninth circuit is notorious for the most often overturned appeals court.
So a lot of potential for egregious behaviour here.

And in fact, its already started. PP is attempted to litigate under the Rico act - and act designed to prosecute ongoing criminal enterprises (mafia).
Most states I don't think that would fly; but its the only way to get it out of the state venue and into federal.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 1:41:38 PM   
mnottertail


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The group that faked the videos is being sued in Federal Court in San Francisco, so we shall see.

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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 4:00:38 PM   
Lucylastic


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Of course the original grand jury case in the OP was held in TEXAS, instigated by Abbot, And still PP have been cleared of any wrongdoing...which yes means that the videos were deceptive, they were also edited....deceptively edited.
or yanno the FBI would have found something against PP already.
But now we seem to have drifted from having to admit, the RW cocksuckers are ugly shitarses, to... who is likely to get money, and the case being held in CA???
EDITED to point out...the CMP are rw ugly shitarses...not anyone on topic...

This was all in a thread back in september...
well PP suing CMP in cali was

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/254240-judge-group-behind-planned-parenthood-videos-must-turn-over-evidence
A federal judge said Friday that the anti-abortion group targeting Planned Parenthood with hidden cameras cannot refuse to turn over potential pieces of evidence by pleading the Fifth Amendment.

Judge William Orrick said in a hearing that the Center for Medical Progress must comply with the court’s requests for documents, escalating the weeks-long legal battle over the secret videos. The organization’s founder, David Daleiden, had previously told the court that the group planned to invoke the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

The move is good news for the National Abortion Federation, a group of providers that includes Planned Parenthood clinics, which had filed the lawsuit.

"It's telling that the defendants have been very vocal in the media saying that they have nothing to hide, yet in Federal court they want to plead the Fifth," Vicki Saporta, president of the National Abortion Federation, wrote in a statement. "We are pleased with the results of today's hearing, and are eager to move forward with the discovery process."

The Center for Medical Progress has released 10 videos targeting Planned Parenthood, several of which include footage from private meetings and events. The members gained access to the events by posing as buyers for a medical research company, which Planned Parenthood and its supporters have argued is illegal.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4842523
also linked to

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/anti-abortion-corporations-are-not-people-cannot-plead-the-fifth_us_55fc94d7e4b08820d918cffb

Judge Reminds Anti-Abortion Corporation It Is Not A Person, Cannot Plead The Fifth

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 1/27/2016 4:01:39 PM >


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(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/27/2016 11:13:51 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

PP have been cleared of any wrongdoing...which yes means that the videos were deceptive, they were also edited....deceptively edited.
or yanno the FBI would have found something against PP already.



Complete and utter horseshit.

Here's a link to the washington state Attorney General's report. https://gallery.mailchimp.com/28a64d02479d9d79402df2b20/files/AG_Ferguson_Memo_Re_Planned_Parenthood.pdf

Lets note some facts here, shall we.

A. The attorney general subpoena'd no documents. Took no depositions.
B. The videos were found to be edited - not a word on "deceptively".
C. There was no investigation into whether PP sold fetal tissue. PP represented it only donated to UWBDRL and the AG accepted that voluntary representation.

D. So, in summary, the AG didn't actually clear planned parenthood. He declined to do an investigation.

Now, the Harris County did convene a grand jury, but grand jury deliberations are kept secret, usually. Hard to know at this point their thinking. And the indictments weren't online when I looked.
Now, the grand jury did indict CMP for falsifying an ID. But this technique is used by law enforcement and investigative journalists all the time. Do we really want to criminalize the press investigating something? Really?

Now, since once of the Harris County prosecutors sat on the board of Planned Parenthood - (Lauren Reeder) - this doesn't sound like a conflict of interest does it. Fair, impartial, unbiased investigation, right? http://hotair.com/archives/2016/01/26/houston-grand-jury-investigates-planned-parenthood-indicts-activists/

E. Now I notice that you failed to mention that more than 12 other states have ongoing investigations - and 5 of them actually are deposing witnesses. To say that it is premature to clear PP is an understatement.

F. Finally, PP hasn't been cleared of wrongdoing- as you allege. Because of the videos, PP has been caught in florida doing illegal 2nd trimester abortions at 3 clinics, and has been caught disposing of bodies in landfills in Ohio.

Now regarding shenanigans:
quote:


http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/254240-judge-group-behind-planned-parenthood-videos-must-turn-over-evidence
A federal judge said Friday that the anti-abortion group targeting Planned Parenthood with hidden cameras cannot refuse to turn over potential pieces of evidence by pleading the Fifth Amendment.

Judge William Orrick said in a hearing that the Center for Medical Progress must comply with the court’s requests for documents, escalating the weeks-long legal battle over the secret videos. The organization’s founder, David Daleiden, had previously told the court that the group planned to invoke the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

The Act of Production Doctrine[edit]
Under the Act of Production Doctrine, the act of an individual in producing documents or materials (e.g., in response to a subpoena) may have a "testimonial aspect" for purposes of the individual's right to assert the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination to the extent that the individual's act of production provides information not already in the hands of law enforcement personnel about the (1) existence; (2) custody; or (3) authenticity, of the documents or materials produced. See United States v. Hubbell.

In United States v. Doe, supra and Boyd v. United States, 116 U.S. 616 (1886), the court concluded that privately held corporations could not be compelled to produce incriminating evidence, although with a split in the appeals courts it it looks as if the supreme court is going to revisit this issue.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/28/2016 5:31:25 AM   
Lucylastic


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What other states?


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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/28/2016 6:52:18 AM   
Phydeaux


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oh it seems its four states now.
quote:


South Carolina COLUMBIA, SC (WACH) - South Carolina DHEC has notified three abortion clinics in the state that they will implement penalties following an investigation.

DHEC announced Friday that they have issued an Administrative Order of Suspension for Planned Parenthood of South Atlantic in Columbia and for Greenville Women's Clinic for violations of state laws and regulations.

The agency cited 21 violations for Planned Parenthood including: non-compliance with the Woman's Right to Know Act, incomplete medical and employee records, improper infectious waste disposal practices, failure to report abortions to DHEC Vital Statistics in timely manner, among other violations.

The Greenville clinic is facing six violations including, non-compliance with Woman's Right to Know Act, incomplete medical record documentation and improper infectious waste disposal practices.


So thats three states finding violations. So much for "cleared" eh?
As for ongoing, it appears texas, louisiana, arizona, arkansas. So far 20 (out of 50) either decined to investigate, or did cursory reviews and cleared. The status of the other states such as utah - its just too time consuming to check on a case by case basis for you. You make the allegation that pp has been cleared of wrongdoing - you support it.


But I will note, CMP's video documented activities in certain states. Those states include texas and louisiana. Since planned parenthood sets up "independent" organizations in different states, attorney generals are impeded against proceeding. Probable cause against Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast is not probable cause against Planned Parenthood NorthWest.

That same legal stricture that Ether finds so abhorrent when applied to CMP.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Planned Parenthood Cleared in Texas....BUT - 1/28/2016 7:39:13 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Yeah, all the violations (from some unknown but nutsucker source, so not credible) are picayune bullshit, to harass.

So, nutsuckers with their dicks in their hands, again.

I bet even nutsuckers have speeding tickets.

But you nutsuckers use that burgeoning bloated government over regulations all the time when you are toiletlicking, don't ya?

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(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 40
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