What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (Full Version)

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theDominantGent -> What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 2:45:24 AM)

Hello all

I come to you seeking some advice for a difficult phase in my life.

Me and my spouse met 5 years ago in college. We had not had many relationships before that point, so we were quickly wrapped into each other. After a 6 month courtship period we got engaged, and we have been married 4 years now (I was 24 at that time). That might strike as rather early, and it is.

The real disaster that happened was that shortly after my marriage I discovered (with a rapid learning curve) that I had a very prominent dominant side. I had always been controlling and liked having my way, but I had dismissed it as just being another "stubborn guy" trait. BDSM suffused my understanding and view of sex, relationships and love.

She on the other hand was painfully vanilla, devoid of any kinks or fantasies (really, I asked). When we started sleeping together we felt like a square peg in a round hole from the get go. Eventually I brought it up - what I wanted. Initially, hell broke loose. She cried, she accused me of deceiving her and hiding my true self. She regretted the marriage. She pushed me into psychiatric therapy. I accepted it all, I believed it was my fault.

I dont mean to demonize her. She is a perfect wife, a perfect friend and wonderful in every way imaginable. Maybe anyone else would have reacted the same way. Eventually after join counselling sessions she came around and said she was willing to try my way of things. I was and am very grateful to her for the compromises she has made, the lengths she has gone to continue holding us together. We have been trying in every way for last 1.5 years, along with supervision from a psychiatrist and a marriage counsellor.At times she feels better. At times I feel better. But it never goes away. it is still always there, the mismatch. And in the end, she recently confessed that this is not making her happy, it makes her feel bonded and suffocated rather than loved. To her love is freedom, to me love is codependence.

We are still trying everyday, but we are running out of energy and patience. We are worried we (or is it me?) are not trying sincerely enough. We are scared to have to start all over again. We are scared that we might never find that person who really makes us happy. We are scared that we are making a huge mistake, throwing away a lifetime of friendship and companionship. I am scared that maybe people like me are not meant to be happily married. Every few weeks we sit and stare at each other cry, feeling helpless and lost.

What would you do if you were in our place?



LadyPact -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 3:42:53 AM)

This is probably going to be the least popular opinion that you receive on this thread.

If it were me, I'd go back with the vanilla relationship if poly was not a possible solution. Before anybody wants to rip my head off for saying that, it's because I am one of the folks who is BDSM and/or D/s optional. I'm not one of those folks who neeeeeed kink in my life. Not everybody doing this is one of those folks who absolutely has to have it in order to be happy. I enjoy my kinks but they aren't that high up on my requirements in life. I prioritize things way differently than most of the folks that you are going to get answers from on this thread.

Normally, I'd say consider poly as an option. Polyamory meaning more than one relationship in your life and when I say that I mean ETHICAL polyamory. Meaning your wife knows and gives enthusiastic consent to you engaging in BDSM and/or D/s with somebody other than her. She may or may not be too keen on that idea and really, it's completely another thread.

If poly isn't a potential option, and you are one of those people who prioritize your kink more than your vanilla relationship, you might be looking at a serious incompatibility. Whether you realized you were doing it at the time or not, you more or less pulled a bait and switch, because you married this person when she believed you were a vanilla (meaning a non kinky) person and sprang this on her after she was settled in the relationship. I'm not saying you meant to do that, but it's kind of where you are, whether that was your intention or not. She thought she was marrying a vanilla guy and she wasn't really, so that's not her fault at all.

Also not a popular opinion, I'm not of the mind that the vanilla person should have to be the person to change to accommodate the kinky person. It's great when it turns out that way but it's not always going to be the case. If it were so easy to change the way a person was wired, you'd just go back to be vanilla and you wouldn't have even started this thread. Well, that's exactly the position your wife is in but in the reverse. If we want people to accept the fact that we just happen to be kinky, we also have to accept the fact that some people are just fine and dandy being vanilla and that is what they are prone to be. The fact that your wife has given this a shot and even attended counseling with you to try to make this work is commendable. She did try for you and that gives her kudos in my book. She may not be able to change the way she is wired any more than you can.

You may have to come to a decision of what you want as the higher priority. You say you are an honorable man, so cheating is not (and shouldn't be) an option. However, if you know the vanilla marriage is not going to make you happy, you may have to consider if you want to remain in the marriage. (And, let's face it, if the two of you are so incompatible about the kink thing, you're both cheating yourselves out of partners that better match you, which like it or not is about her happiness, too.) It might be time to talk about what's best for everyone involved.

There are going to be other folks that come along with different opinions but you asked and that is mine.



theDominantGent -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 3:48:06 AM)

thank you for your time, and your valuable insights. poly is not an option (yet), i have discussed open marriage with my wife and till date she is not comfortable with it (i see her point, especially when it comes to kids and family). i agree with a lot of what you said. i shall wait to hear from others. this is not a vox populi, and your opinions make a lot of sense.



bossman777 -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 4:06:39 AM)

I have been in your situation. What you need to do is be firm with your wife in telling her your unhappiness. It will be hard but you must confront the issue, or it will fester and become a source of resentment and anger. Just be honest with her about your needs and how she does not fulfill them. Get her to admit you need more than she is willing to provide. If you can get her to do this, and if she loves you, she will cooperate to find ways to accommodate your needs. That truly is the sign of real love--being able to let go of you enough to make you happy. If you succeed in getting her permission, she will feel anxious and vulnerable, so spend a good deal of time re-assuring her of your devotion and commitment to her on all other levels. In time she will see those commitments are more important than sexual fidelity and begin to relax about it.



Cell -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 4:08:45 AM)

Well, you're already seeing a psychiatrist and a marriage counselor... I doubt there's anyone on here that can give you better help than that which you're already getting. So with the understanding that any opinions people on here may have for you should be taken with a grain of salt and that trained professionals who have intimate knowledge of your situation are probably an infinitely better source of advice than the rambling, kink addled remnants of a derelict interweb forum...

Welcome! Always nice to see a new face ^_^ one thing I absolutly would not recommend is any kind of extramarital solution. You either fix it or break it... I've seen it so many times, dam cheaters. (Not saying that's you, just being clear)
Everyone knows how to break it... So, fixing it would seem to be the agenda. Hmmm, unfortunatly I have a feeling this may be an uphill struggle if she has the wrong temperament. And a "mismatch" is a mismatch. If this BDSM aspect is that important to you, (not exactly sure what specifically you're into BTW) the only thing I could suggest is to figure out what specifically you want from her, tell her what those things are and that your relationship is a path toward those things. Figure out some plan for making that journey and be prepared for the possibility of losing her along the way.



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 5:29:58 AM)

I have read the thread and I can see that many may end up in the same boat as yourself.

I don't agree with bossman or cell in that they both assume that your wife is the one to make the change.
That, in and of itself, could be a very dangerous thing, especially as you have both been to marriage counselling and it would appear that you have hit a stalemate.

There was one phrase that hit me more than anything else in your opening post: "...it makes her feel bonded and suffocated rather than loved. To her love is freedom, to me love is codependence".
This, to me, is the real crux of the matter - a glaring incompatibility between the two of you.
Those views are completely diametrically opposed to each other and I doubt very much if many people could overcome such a difference without one of them feeling very oppressed; which in itself is not a good base for a successful long term relationship.

LP has summed it up pretty well IMHO and brought up some exceedingly good points.
Personally, I feel that any relationship that is co-dependent is a recipe for disaster in the long run.
In my book, a good relationship is one based on trust, flexibility, and is self-supporting from both sides.
I don't get that vibe from your post.
You are both in an entrenched position but alas, not in the same trench.
You mention "...a lifetime of friendship and companionship" yet you have only been together 5 years.
Trust me when I say that is nowhere near a lifetime even if it feels like it.

I lost my first partner after 12 years of marriage and 2 years of courting - 14 years in total.
My current wife dropped her 15 year marriage after chatting with me (in a vanilla way) for 10 months.
This year will be our 7th year of marriage and we are both extremely happy with each other.

The point I'm making is that with your particular problem, I am thinking your best move would be to separate and go your own ways however hard that seems.
Because, I fear that it will eventually become toxic and unpleasant.

The last word is yours and don't let some strangers on the internet tell you any different.
The bottom line is - it's your call.

Just my [sm=2cents.gif]



Lucylastic -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 5:36:34 AM)

End it.
The role play, the expectations, the kink
Or the marriage.
If you cant compromise, you will destroy the relationship.





Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 6:43:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

I have been in your situation. What you need to do is be firm with your wife in telling her your unhappiness. It will be hard but you must confront the issue, or it will fester and become a source of resentment and anger. Just be honest with her about your needs and how she does not fulfill them. Get her to admit you need more than she is willing to provide. If you can get her to do this, and if she loves you, she will cooperate to find ways to accommodate your needs. That truly is the sign of real love--being able to let go of you enough to make you happy. If you succeed in getting her permission, she will feel anxious and vulnerable, so spend a good deal of time re-assuring her of your devotion and commitment to her on all other levels. In time she will see those commitments are more important than sexual fidelity and begin to relax about it.


Have to disagree with you on this one. Sounds like op has the problem not his wife. Who in the hell made up that nonsense, that if you really love me I can fuck other women?bdoesnt sound to me that the wife agrees with that at all.
I'm all for people making their marriages work if possible. The wife doesn't have to cow towel to that malarkey, vanilla or not.
You don't force someone into something they don't want or believe in. Is that love?
An honorable man would keep the vows he made to her. You changed your mind not her. That's when incompatibilies may be way to much and you all aren't meant to be.
That's my take on it.



crumpets -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 6:49:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theDominantGent
What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage?


I'm only keying off the title and nothing else, so, bear that in mind by my "scientific" response.

I studied supply and demand (among other things) in school, and you can be considered the demand side of sex (define "sex" any way you want to).

Your wife, is the "supply" side of sex (I'm trying to be factually true to the supply and demand curve here).

If the current demand is far greater than the current supply, then guess what's gonna naturally happen?

HINT: It has happened. And, it has been happening since man started walking on two legs. And it will continue to happen long after we're all dead and buried.
Simply because of the inviolable inexorable dynamics of the supply and demand curve.



Lucylastic -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 6:51:03 AM)

You could get an insight into his "bossmans" other ideas for his wives.


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4830892

If the op wants to follow his advice, he needs more than marriage counselling



crumpets -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 7:00:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

You could get an insight into his "bossmans" other ideas for his wives.
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4830892


That thread was short, but hilarious....
-I am looking for ways and means to turn my wife into a whore. I need help.

Here's the bossman quote, for reference, so that we might spare others the entire thread which was started by a one-post-wonder, so, you have to wonder who is shilling for whom in that thread ...
(Note Bossman responded to the one-post-wonder within an hour so that tells us something right there.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

I turned my wife into a whore. She was 20 years younger and very cute. After she gave me 4 babies, I put an IUD in her to make her safe for bareback use. The first step was getting her to do 3somes with me and other men. After she got used to doing that alot, I encouraged her to start dating men she liked, and gave her permission to fuck anyone she wanted to. She was hesitant, thinking it would hurt our relationship but one day she met up with an old BF and could not resist him. When she got home and told me about it, I praised her and made her feel good about doing it. After that she felt liberated and excited about life. Once word got out with her friends that she was acting single and allowed to date, her girlfriends started asking her to go out with them to meet guys at clubs. Eventually she met a girl doing escorts and got the idea to try it. She told me and I encouraged her to give it a try, so she put up a few ads and started taking customers. It was really good for a while, as it allowed me to take more time off and be a stay at home dad, which I love. But in time the money and attention from men went to her head and she started thinking she wore the pants in our relationship, so I had no choice but to give her the boot. So beware of that.






Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 7:03:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

You could get an insight into his "bossmans" other ideas for his wives.


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4830892

If the op wants to follow his advice, he needs more than marriage counselling


Girlfriend, I could have did without that insight. Chugs my coffee like its a shot of whiskey[:D]



Lucylastic -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 7:10:56 AM)

Crumpets
I posted the link so if anyone was interested, they could check for themselves, I didnt post the full post, because now everyone who may not be interested has to scroll thru it NOT to see it.


Cinnamon.well ...sometimes forewarned is forearmed.
sorry,
clicks mugs with you.



Spiritedsub2 -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 7:24:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

You could get an insight into his "bossmans" other ideas for his wives.


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4830892

If the op wants to follow his advice, he needs more than marriage counselling


Good find. That posts needs to follow "bossman" wherever he goes.



DesFIP -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 3:19:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

I have been in your situation. What you need to do is be firm with your wife in telling her your unhappiness. It will be hard but you must confront the issue, or it will fester and become a source of resentment and anger. Just be honest with her about your needs and how she does not fulfill them. Get her to admit you need more than she is willing to provide. If you can get her to do this, and if she loves you, she will cooperate to find ways to accommodate your needs. That truly is the sign of real love--being able to let go of you enough to make you happy. If you succeed in getting her permission, she will feel anxious and vulnerable, so spend a good deal of time re-assuring her of your devotion and commitment to her on all other levels. In time she will see those commitments are more important than sexual fidelity and begin to relax about it.



So if he really loves her, then he needs to accommodate her needs. He needs to return to the person he pretended to be in order to win her. He needs to become vanilla.

Why is she the only one who has to agree to be a square peg in a round hole?

OP: First, I find wanting her to be codependent to be a red flag. You want her to be unable to function on her own, be unable to make any decisions on her own. So what happens if you're not available to micromanage her? She sits there in the dark for a week till you authorize turning on a light?

Go back to how it used to be, see if you can become friends again.

If you could be happy with just kink, and not d/s, then consider the two of you going to a munch. Allow her to see that people who do this aren't all weird. Maybe she would eventually be okay with you learning to top people nonsexually.

But really, it doesn't sound like you folks are compatible. She deserves to be with someone who thinks she's perfect as she is, who doesn't want to change everything about her.

And so do you. Unfortunately you aren't the right people for each other.



DocStrange -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 4:05:10 PM)

To the OP
Like others have said you need to be honest with your wife. The discussion that you are unhappy must be a discussion you need to have with your wife. It takes 2 to make the relationship live and flourish.

I am also going to say this. When you married your wife you made a lifelong commitment. The "For better or worse, in sickness and in health". The marriage vows of commitment to your wife. Just because you realized you are dominant after the fact does not give you the right to change that commitment. Hopefully the two of you can talk and come to some happy ground.



Greta75 -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 4:34:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theDominantGent
To her love is freedom, to me love is codependence.

We are still trying everyday, but we are running out of energy and patience. We are worried we (or is it me?) are not trying sincerely enough. We are scared to have to start all over again. We are scared that we might never find that person who really makes us happy. We are scared that we are making a huge mistake, throwing away a lifetime of friendship and companionship. I am scared that maybe people like me are not meant to be happily married. Every few weeks we sit and stare at each other cry, feeling helpless and lost.

What would you do if you were in our place?

Lets analyse the problem. I think what's going on here, is you love her as a best friend. But sexually, both of you are not happy with each other. I don't know, for me, as a woman, I WOULD hate to be with a man who is giving up so much sexually for me.

And the only reason why you do not wish to dissolve this marriage is because, you are afraid you will never find another woman to live happily ever after that could share your kinks. Not because you deeply love her. Although you definitely do care alot for her.

I don't think you are staying in this marriage for the right reason. She is not enough for you. Face the facts. I think it's only fair to let her go and give her a chance to find a man who fits her better. And for you to give yourself that same chance too.

I do think you need to talk to your counsellor about your co-dependence issues too. That brings fear into your life, making you unable to do what is right.

Because, another thing I see is that, your wife is not happy with you as well. She's bringing up that she's not happy with this all.

There is no solution. You tried your best, you went counseling, you exhausted all option, and you are still not happy, neither is she.

And as you said, you made a mistake by marrying before checking sexual compatibility.

All I can say is if you both know in your heart that you love each other deeply and cannot imagine being with anybody else in this world, this is a good reason to stay together. Usually, sexual incompatibility can be worked out through open marriages. I mean, while LP says she'll give up kink, but she is dominant married to a dominant who is still able to indulge in her kink with a third party with her husband's blessings. Now, that is harmony and their relationship works great. But you don't have that.

You need the same thing with your wife, or, please find the courage, both of you, to go pursue what you want and need.




DarkSteven -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 4:45:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bossman777

I have been in your situation. What you need to do is be firm with your wife in telling her your unhappiness. It will be hard but you must confront the issue, or it will fester and become a source of resentment and anger. Just be honest with her about your needs and how she does not fulfill them. Get her to admit you need more than she is willing to provide. If you can get her to do this, and if she loves you, she will cooperate to find ways to accommodate your needs. That truly is the sign of real love--being able to let go of you enough to make you happy. If you succeed in getting her permission, she will feel anxious and vulnerable, so spend a good deal of time re-assuring her of your devotion and commitment to her on all other levels. In time she will see those commitments are more important than sexual fidelity and begin to relax about it.


I agree with half of this. He should be open with his wife about his needs. The part which should be added is that she must be open about her needs as well. With luck, you can approach a problem analysis and solution search phase with equal commitment.

I can't tell you what the right solution is, but I can tell you to make sure both of you are on board.



Greta75 -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 4:58:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DocStrange
I am also going to say this. When you married your wife you made a lifelong commitment. The "For better or worse, in sickness and in health". The marriage vows of commitment to your wife. Just because you realized you are dominant after the fact does not give you the right to change that commitment. Hopefully the two of you can talk and come to some happy ground.

I personally think, this school of thought is toooo outdated! What's the point of staying married, if both are unhappy with each other? If one bad decision was made, and commitment was made to the wrong person, being sentenced to life with each other, is just..., crazy.

I find this also very dangerous. I've seen catholic people advised battered and abuse women not to leave their husbands, because of the forever thick and thin clause of a marriage commitment they made to their God.



ExquisiteStings -> RE: What does an honorable man do if he is not sexually satisfied in marriage? (1/30/2016 5:08:30 PM)

I have to say that I 100% agree with LadyPact, Cinnamongirl67 & DocStrange on their advice/opinions re: this matter. I also had a bf who revealed AFTER the fact of us living together that A. he considered himself transgender & B. he expected me to be his Dominant half. I, who had practiced Domming before was not prepared for this switch up and highly resented that he had not disclosed this aspect of himself BEFORE I totally moved in with him. I knew he was a cross dresser and was ok with it, but was not aware that he wanted to be female in more ways than just the attire until I accidentally discovered boxes of female hormone tablets in his nightstand drawer. And then he reveals that he's in love with a former Domina, which threw Me into a total tailspin and needless to say, because of his lack of honesty in disclosing his info, BEFORE I moved in, the relationship ended pretty much then and there. Which, when I get back into another relationship, I will make the man be totally honest with Me in EVERY aspect (I am always honest with personal things about Myself in person), but if he lies deliberately or lies by omission of crucial facts, it will necessitate the inevitable relationship coming to a screeching halt, because I would never be able to place my full trust in him again.



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