RE: Middle East, (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 5:06:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I'm struggling to find this particular instance.


Is that a fact?



Don't worry. I'll be able to feed you more Israeli murders or death caused through criminal negligence by the time I've finished searching.



pollux -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 5:10:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I'm struggling to find this particular instance.


Is that a fact?



Don't worry. I'll be able to feed you more Israeli murders or death caused through criminal negligence by the time I've finished searching.


What I'd really like are the facts regarding this business about Israel bulldozing Palestinian families inside their homes.



meatcleaver -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 5:56:22 AM)

I'm still looking but this is an interesting read about bulldozers.

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1741197,00.html

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/critic/feature/0,,1744421,00.html



pollux -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 6:14:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I'm still looking



Boy, you'd think a policy of bulldozing families inside their homes would've been extensively covered.  By the BBC, at least.



meatcleaver -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 6:24:53 AM)

Well if you search using words such as "Palastinian" and 'Bulldozed" you get thousands of articles to sift through and you start to realise why there is so much terrorism and considering that collective punishment is a crime under international law you start to wonder why the west has been so happy to turn a blind eye while its governments keep spouting on about international law.

It's like searching for a needle in a haystack but I doubt you would believe an article even if I found one. You have obviously taken up a stance where you can't be convinced.



pollux -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 7:13:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Well if you search using words such as "Palastinian" and 'Bulldozed" you get thousands of articles to sift through


None of which refers to any Israeli policy or trend (or likely even a single instance) of a Palestinian family being bulldozed inside their home.

Which kinda makes me wonder why Julia made the claim initially.

Maybe I should start in with the claims that Palestinian suicide bombers are infected with AIDS, and that the nails and ball bearings in their suicide belts are dipped in rat poison.



meatcleaver -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 7:19:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Well if you search using words such as "Palastinian" and 'Bulldozed" you get thousands of articles to sift through


None of which refers to any Israeli policy or trend (or likely even a single instance) of a Palestinian family being bulldozed inside their home.

Which kinda makes me wonder why Julia made the claim initially.

Maybe I should start in with the claims that Palestinian suicide bombers are infected with AIDS, and that the nails and ball bearings in their suicide belts are dipped in rat poison.



I could spend weeks filtering through the amount of articles and commentaries that likely keywords bring up unless I can find a specific combination that does.

I remember a lot of international controversy at the time like these sorts of incidents provoke but so much happens in between and time is elastic.



irishbynature -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 7:59:06 AM)

LOL..Level..thanks for the great attitude[:D]
IBN (PS...but I 'ain't' writing nuttin on the board..lol)



irishbynature -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 8:10:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Well if you search using words such as "Palastinian" and 'Bulldozed" you get thousands of articles to sift through and you start to realise why there is so much terrorism and considering that collective punishment is a crime under international law you start to wonder why the west has been so happy to turn a blind eye while its governments keep spouting on about international law.

It's like searching for a needle in a haystack but I doubt you would believe an article even if I found one. You have obviously taken up a stance where you can't be convinced.


True Meatclever. Some time ago, I did some research as to why all this PLO-Isrealie mess was occuring. It took me to ONE core issue.

After WWII, when Isreal became a country (literally), settlements began. Those living on the land for hundreds of years were forced out of there homes to make way for the new settlements. Many were forced into ghettos and those children and their children, living in horrible conditions, created the PLO, or the resistance movement. They wanted their OWN country and the only means they had to fight back was to strap on bombs and blow themselves up. 

I realized that it must take pure insanity to do such a thing....but what conditions led them to do such? I guess that's for historians and sociologists to hammer out.

Since that time, I've seen bulldozers running over homes and human beings to make roads and more settlements for Isreal.  (Sighs...something is just wrong in that behavior.....it's like saying, "God told me I could have Australia...so everyone there, get out or I will run you out....") Of course, I know it's not that simple...

Without running my point into the ground and rambling on....Isreal is NOT perfect...they have created a monster and now they are forced to deal with it. This cycle of violence has NOT worked...and has on created more violence.

Respectfully and with only one cuppa coffee,
IBN[:D]





pollux -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 8:25:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: irishbynature

Since that time, I've seen bulldozers running over homes and human beings to make roads and more settlements for Isreal. 





So you were an eyewitness to Israelis bulldozing families in their homes?  Tell us. What have you seen?



MrDiscipline44 -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 8:33:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Total devastation, civil war...just to name a couple.

Same ole shit, new generation.



Sunshine119 -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 9:04:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pollux

quote:

ORIGINAL: irishbynature

Since that time, I've seen bulldozers running over homes and human beings to make roads and more settlements for Isreal. 



So you were an eyewitness to Israelis bulldozing families in their homes?  Tell us. What have you seen?



If Canada started bombing New York because there were a few hundred Anti-Canadians living somewhere within the city, killing thousands, what do you think we'd do?  How do you think we'd start feeling about Canadians?  Do you think we'd feel invaded? Incensed? Angry?  Angry enough to fight back? 

This is a no-win situation.  Whenever you give away someone else's land, you've got to expect reprecussions.  If the world was feeling so guilty about the holocaust, we should have offered the Jewish people Wyoming?  What?  We don't want another country within ours?  What?  There are American's already living in Wyoming?  How do you think those in Wyoming would feel?

It's not simply a "get over it situation".  I don't know what the answer is, but I would stop giving any of the parties aid from the U.S.  How quickly would everyone be moved to peace if the U.S. stopped funding all of the weapons involved?  However, we DID give Israel far more (and more deadly) weapons.  And we did give Israel at least one nuclear weapon.  So, do you really wonder why some in the Middle-East hate America?

ONE reference for bulldozing homes:

Army levels four houses and bulldozes scores of dunams of farming lands in Rafah Army levels four houses and bulldozes scores of dunams of farming lands in Rafah
(Thursday, 29 June 2006) - Contributed by Ghassan H Bannoura


The Israeli army bulldozers and tanks leveled four houses and bulldozed scores of dunams of farming lands in Al Shoka
area in Rafah city, in the southeastern part of the Gaza strip, Thursday.

The houses belong to the Al Fara and Abu Mo'amer families, local sources reported.

No reason was given by Israeli forces for the destruction of the homes, although it appears to be part of the massive
operation 'Summer Rain' being conducted by Israeli forces against the Palestinian people in the northern and southern
ends of the Gaza Strip.

http://www.imemc.org - International Middle East Media Center Powered by Mambo Generated: 20 July, 2006, 18:55

For the whole history of all the atrocities of the current war between the Israelis and Palestinians you can go to:

http://www.leksikon.org/killingfields/month_chrono.php?period=040



pollux -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 9:17:49 AM)

Sunshine:

I'm trying to find information about an Israeli bulldozer demolishing a Palestinian home with the family still in it.  Julia made that claim back on pg. 2 or 3. 

Can you help with that?

While we're trading links, why don't you check this one out:  http://www.memri.org



Master96 -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 9:53:30 AM)

Terrorism can be done by individuals, organizations or states.

Is Hezzbollah a terrorist organization? By the Israeli and western nations yes.

Is Israel a terrorist state? In the Arabs eye that’s definitely true.

Not all Lebanese agree with Hezzbollah. But all of them agree that Palestinian refuges should return to Palestine; which is an Israeli taboo!

Does anyone care about Lebanese, Palestinian and other Arabs prisoners in Israel? Seems no to the Arabs. But the entire world cares about two Israeli solders.

That is Hezzbollah’s claim: Nobody cares about you Arabs. We’ll return the prisoners as we did in 2000.

When anyone says Israel has the right to exist. To Arabs it is like saying the Apartheid in South Africa had the right to exist. Why would some Europeans had the right to exist in South Africa with black people suffering?

Arabs don’t have issue with Jews. In fact many Arabs are Jews. There are Iraqi, Syrian, Yemeni, Egyptian and other Jewish Arabs. So there is no any problem to the Arabs with Jewish people living in Palestine. The problem is with Zionism; which is Israeli’s foundation.

Zionism is stated to be a racist movement by the United Nations.

Please take Arabs opinions seriously. Please respect the Arabic people. Please try to look through the Arabic eyes.

I’m not saying that I or all Arabs are happy with Hezzbollah or Hamas. But it seems to be that they are the only people care about us.

Arabs are more welling to establish friendship with the west; even people like Hamas.
Hamas stopped every activity against Israel after winning the elections; for about a year. But nobody valued that. Anyway they resumed after the Gaza beach’s massacre.  

The problem is that the west is supporting dictators in the Middle East. If America respects Arabs choice, all the problems will be solved.

Ps: I’m not Arabic. I’m from the Circassian minority in Middle Eeast.

Thanks to everyone cares about innocent Lebanese, Palestinians.

Master96,



Level -> RE: Middle East, (7/20/2006 3:32:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119


If Canada started bombing New York because there were a few hundred Anti-Canadians living somewhere within the city, killing thousands, what do you think we'd do?  How do you think we'd start feeling about Canadians?  Do you think we'd feel invaded? Incensed? Angry?  Angry enough to fight back? 

Yes we'd be angry, and I think we'd take the anti-Canadian terrorists (because for your analogy to work, they have to be terrorists) and hurl their stinking ass out of New York.

This is a no-win situation.  Whenever you give away someone else's land, you've got to expect reprecussions.  If the world was feeling so guilty about the holocaust, we should have offered the Jewish people Wyoming?  What?  We don't want another country within ours?  What?  There are American's already living in Wyoming?  How do you think those in Wyoming would feel?

I honestly wish we had given them a chunk of Texas; plenty of spare land down here, and all of this bullshit would likely never have happened.

It's not simply a "get over it situation".  I don't know what the answer is, but I would stop giving any of the parties aid from the U.S.  How quickly would everyone be moved to peace if the U.S. stopped funding all of the weapons involved?  However, we DID give Israel far more (and more deadly) weapons.  And we did give Israel at least one nuclear weapon. 

We did??






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