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Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 1/31/2016 11:06:51 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline 		Given that it's the height of the football season, I have a question that I have never been able to come to grips with the answer to.

It's a given that women don't want to be treated as sex objects, especially while in public, yet, it's just as much a given that (some) women shove their panties in our faces every chance they get.

How do you reconcile those two halves of the same statement?

For example, here's a classic cheerleading picture at a USC football game:


Here's another, if you didn't get the point from the first picture:


NOTE TO MODS: These are all college-aged women, so they're all over 18; and this is a very public event (with families with kids even).
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RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 1/31/2016 11:26:29 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		I don't think you are discussing this in the right section.

But sex sells. Women do not want to be sexualised, but sometimes, they have no choice if it's part of the job. Just like actresses being pressured to go nude.

When I worked as a waitress in my early 20's, my male manager wanted to ban me from wearing pants. He insist I need to dress more feminine and wear a skirt. I tendered my resignation because of it. But in the end, they decided to leave me alone and allow me to carry on wearing my pants to work as they didn't want me to leave. Just that pants are more comfortable in waitressing environment. But this is what women have to deal with.

I mean, even the stupid olympics are talking about making the mandated sports attire for women in some sports more sexy, to attract more male viewers.

It happens.

I mean, you do realise women started in this world as second class citizens. And men made all the rules. I mean, according to Hillary Clinton herself, which I was shock to hear this. Women cannot even apply for a credit card without her husband's permission in the late 1970's???? In the US?? It happened to her!

That's crazy! Even though she was making more than 100k per annum with her own job.

So I think many job availability are still heavily dictated by men. And in a world where there is not enough jobs for every single human being, it would be very difficult to stamp out the availability of all the female selling sex jobs, and with job shortages, there will always be people who just suck it up and do it for the income.



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 1/31/2016 11:31:10 PM >

(in reply to crumpets)
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RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 12:05:39 AM   
crumpets


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I don't think you are discussing this in the right section.

What section would you recommend?
I had trouble figuring out which was best.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
When I worked as a waitress in my early 20's, my male manager wanted to ban me from wearing pants. He insist I need to dress more feminine and wear a skirt.

I guess that's the simplest answer, which is that women are forced to dress sexily.

I'm sure it didn't always used to be that way.

For example, here's a 1970's Munich beer garden waitress, for example, in so-called "traditional" garb, and her boobs aren't showing:


Yet, when I last went to Munich for Oktoberfest, I seem to remember vastly more revealing "traditional" garb by (most of) the waitresses.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I mean, even the stupid olympics are talking about making the mandated sports attire for women in some sports more sexy, to attract more male viewers.


Again, I guess, since uniforms are mandated by the "team" in some fashion, I guess, again, that's the simplest answer, which is that (some of) the female athletes are forced to wear revealing uniforms.

By way of contrast, I have noticed that, for some reason, (almost all of) the male athletes seem to be able to keep their abdomen, belly button, and upper butt cheeks out of view of the crowds, but the women can't seem to with the uniforms they're provided. It's not "performance" related, because, in general, the men outperform the women, especially in track and field, which I'm showing pictures of below.

Here, for example, is how "Ivana Spanovic", Long Jumper from Serbia, dresses for the Olympics:


Here's a shot of what another female track-and-field Olympian, Lori Jones, wore in the 2008 Beijing Olympics.


By way of stark contrast, here's how (most of) the track and field men dressed for the 2012 Olympics:


It always amazes me that (most of) the men can jump and run (higher and faster than the women do) and, yet, the men, still (somehow) manage to keep their belly buttons and butt cheeks out of view of every man, woman, and child in the audience.


If the answer is that (some) women are forced to wear skimpy clothes in public, well, then, that solves the conundrum.

< Message edited by crumpets -- 2/1/2016 12:19:40 AM >

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RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 12:06:25 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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Oooh! Oooh! I have an answer!

Maybe ... just maybe women aren't involved in group think?

Maybe, some ladies don't see male attention as degrading to them?



Just a thought,



Michael

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 12:15:11 AM   
CodeOfSilence


Posts: 235
Status: offline 		Some women want to be sexualized. Their entire brands are sex-driven. There are men too.
This is just one more conflicting dichotomy among many in this world that has its economic engine based much on nurturing the afflictions of civilization.


To each their own. If Gretas manager wants her to wear a sexy dress I'd say that's fine. As a regular I'd much rather have a good conservationist and someone who knows my favourites than someone in a skimy dress, in fact I might prefer someone in a smart look because it sends an other signal. The gold is probably in striking a balance between sexy and not being sexualized and at the same time classy but not unapproachable. At least for the service sector.
We are conditioned to wear certain outfits everywhere and if anything it is that conditioning that's the problem.

In my opinion forcing someone to wear any dress is far more benign than the entire corporate and social construct that goes into always wearing a suite and tie at some places and the false sense of freedom afforded by such slimy moves like "Hawai Thursday" or "Casual friday". Various systems of civilizations enforce codes of dress and behavior both as a way to ease social interactions but also as a means of control.



PS: I do wonder what the managers rationale was. The only reason anyone would want to "sex up"" is to get more tips. The customers are hopefully returning cause of the food?

< Message edited by CodeOfSilence -- 2/1/2016 12:16:53 AM >

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RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 12:21:32 AM   
CodeOfSilence


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Oooh! Oooh! I have an answer!

Maybe ... just maybe women aren't involved in group think?

Maybe, some ladies don't see male attention as degrading to them?



Just a thought,



Michael




I've met a few people who are somewhat out of it, but I'd say it's one of the most common fixations out there. The whole fashion sector (as opposed to design in itself) is one huge exercise in "group think". And frankly I can see the fancy of keep up to tabs with what everyone else are doing while trying to break out in front of a trend yourself. It's like a competition that you can't really win where you better either be completely independent and out of it or at the helm of it, otherwise you're just as good as the best follower.

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RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 12:33:00 AM   
crumpets


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Oooh! Oooh! I have an answer!
Maybe ... just maybe women aren't involved in group think?
Maybe, some ladies don't see male attention as degrading to them?
Just a thought,
Michael


This is a good point in that I'm trying to reconcile, in my mind, the dichotomy of what (many) women say, versus what (many) women do.

What you're trying to say, I believe, is that some women actually do say what they do, when it comes to wanting to be treated as sex objects.

For them, there is no conundrum in my mind.
What they say and what they do actually makes logical sense.

For example, here's a photo of a group of (probably very honest with themselves and everyone around them) ladies who we can all almost certainly assume don't "see male attention as degrading" whatsoever.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 12:34:20 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence
PS: I do wonder what the managers rationale was. The only reason anyone would want to "sex up"" is to get more tips. The customers are hopefully returning cause of the food?

Aesthetics. Males are the big paying customers and like being in restaurants with women looking and dressing like a woman. As compared to, going to a restaurant where women dress like butches, and not even in female cut, which was what I was wearing. I don't like to attract sexual attention at work, and I dress to look unattractive. When I was in my 20's, I absolutely refuse to do anything that is something only required for females. Including wearing make up. I have always fought that, if I wear a skirt, the man better wear a skirt too. If I wear make up, the man better wear make up too. I refuse to be treated differently.

I guess it's my little rebellion against all the stupid rules exclusive to women.

You know when even your own father says something like, "Your husband probably left you because you refused to wear a dress."

That's what I grow up with. Because I am a woman, what should a woman do, what should a woman wear, what should a woman put on her face, what hobbies and curriculum a woman should be interested in. And I was just at that stage I was fed up of all that!

But now, I'm done with that part, because, I realise pants and shirts are a bitch to wear everyday and I love comfortable one piece dresses that is easy to take in and take out. I just wear whatever is comfortable and at the moment, it happens to be a certain style of dresses that is easiest to get into and get out of, with no ironing necessary.

Pants and shirts just means more ironing ha.

But @DaddySatyr, some women may enjoy being sexualised, but as with sex and rape, I think the key is, they like to choose who they wish to allow to sexualise them, so crumpets showing female sexuality in job related things, I think, it's part of the job protocol if they want to do the job. It's not like a cheerleader can say, she wants to cover up and still be employed as a cheerleader.

And @Crumpets, I definitely think in the athletic field, it's just cooler to wear as little as possible, so some of those pictures you posted for female athletes were not them intentionally trying to be sexy. As for why do men wear full shirts, I have no idea, maybe if they wear tummy exposed tops, they feel like they look gay, because it's what women do. It looks aesthetically nice on a woman, but may not have the same effect for the man and men like to look good too, while running.

But there were definitely certain sport in the Olympics where discussion on mandated sexier attire for females were brought in, to increase the viewership of the less popular sport.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/1/2016 12:47:11 AM >

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RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:01:35 AM   
crumpets


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From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence
To each their own. If Gretas manager wants her to wear a sexy dress I'd say that's fine.

I realize that you can't even work at (some) restaurants if you don't meet their "sex" standards, but the question is what do the women who actually work at such restaurants say about being considered sex objects versus what they actually do.

Here, for example, is a Business Insider article from 2013, titled:
  • Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Working At Hooters
    Where the actual unabashed NAME of the restaurant is the obvious slang word for breasts.


    Surprisingly, if you read the interviews with the waitresses, they seem to be naively wholly and astoundingly blissfully unaware of the sexual connotations of both the name of the restaurant and of the uniforms that they are "forced" to wear!
  • What It Takes to Work Here: Hooters


    Something doesn't make sense when I try to reconcile their extremely innocent words with their stated choice of locations to choose to waitress, if they, indeed, are saying that they don't want to be treated as sexual objects by the masses.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: CodeOfSilence
    I do wonder what the managers rationale was. The only reason anyone would want to "sex up"" is to get more tips. The customers are hopefully returning cause of the food?

    With respect to the "manager's rationale", I found quite a few business articles that extolled the "business virtues" of the Breastaurant, such as Twin Peaks (where the name itself, is yet another blatant sexualization of women's body parts); but this question isn't a business question.

    It's a question regarding how do (most) women reconcile what they say with what they actually do.


    < Message edited by crumpets -- 2/1/2016 1:03:44 AM >

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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:02:02 AM   
    freedomdwarf1


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets

    Given that it's the height of the football season, I have a question that I have never been able to come to grips with the answer to.

    It's a given that women don't want to be treated as sex objects, especially while in public, yet, it's just as much a given that (some) women shove their panties in our faces every chance they get.

    How do you reconcile those two halves of the same statement?

    For example, here's a classic cheerleading picture at a USC football game:


    My dear ignorant crumpets.... You have asked this all before in another thread.
    You got all the answers you could ever need.
    But clearly, you choose to ignore it all.

    This question doesn't belong in P&R - it would be better suited in "Off Grid".

    Apart from which, most of these so-called 'in your face' pictures is quite simple - even for a 5 year old to grasp.

    A) Women don't have the dangly bits so they need something better-fitting to give them the freedom of movement for the activity they are doing.
    B) Most of the time, the outfits are mandated and dictated by MEN who set the rules and dress code.

    It is done deliberately this way to attract MALE spectators who are usually the ones spending the money at these events.
    It's a simple case of 'Sex Sells' because MEN are stupid enough to get hooked by scanty images.


    The fact that YOU see it as deliberately sexy is your problem.
    They are PAID to perform like that to attract stupid MEN to make more profits.
    Simples!

    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:09:40 AM   
    crumpets


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Greta75
    Aesthetics. Males are the big paying customers and like being in restaurants with women looking and dressing like a woman. As compared to, going to a restaurant where women dress like butches, and not even in female cut, which was what I was wearing.


    To be clear, I'm not asking a business question nor even the social question of why women dress the way they do.

    I'm asking why many women say one thing, but actually do quite the opposite.

    Specifically, I'm asking for an insight into their thought process that allows such a tremendously bipolar contradiction of actions versus stated words.

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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:12:08 AM   
    Greta75


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets

    Specifically, I'm asking for an insight into their thought process that allows such a tremendously bipolar contradiction of actions versus stated words.


    I think here is another problem.

    When a woman dresses in a certain way that looks sexy to men, it may not be sexual to us. We just think we look good. And it's fashion.

    I mean men sexualise anything. Imagine in the medieval times, showing ankles was sexy and seen as women sexualising themselves.

    Now it's like, ankles?? Blah!

    Next time, give it enough years, it would be like, Showing boobs? Blah! It's nothing, no longer sexual.

    (in reply to crumpets)
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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:16:36 AM   
    Kirata


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

    Oooh! Oooh! I have an answer!

    Your rat isn't really very fat....





    K.

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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:23:24 AM   
    crumpets


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Greta75
    I definitely think in the athletic field, it's just cooler to wear as little as possible, so some of those pictures you posted for female athletes were not them intentionally trying to be sexy. As for why do men wear full shirts, I have no idea,


    Let me be perfectly clear, even though the topic is what women are THINKING when they say one thing but do the other, and not why they wear the clothes that they wear.

    It's total BS that the skimpier clothes are cooler, so that is, was, and never will be the REASON for the women to wear the skimpy sexualized outfits.

    As one example, I wrestled in high school. That's 2 minutes, plus 3 minutes plus 3 minutes of sweaty hand-to-hand combat with a muscular aggressive strong male, and our butt cheeks and abdomen NEVER showed to the crowed. Never ever.

    We wore tight uniforms, out of necessity, I agree, but we managed to keep our panties, belly buttons and butt cheeks out of the eye of the crowd, doing far more strenuous activity than a cheerleader, long jumper, or waitress would be doing.

    PS: When "I" wrestled, we covered our entire legs, as I recall, and most of our back and chest, as mat burns are something you don't want to get, especially with the bacteria inherent in those extremely sweat-soaked mats!

    But, again, I'm not asking about the uniforms, per se (as even the wrestlers are forced to wear the uniform that they wear).

    I'm asking about why the words from many women don't match their actions in extremely many cases.

    What are women actually thinking?

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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:23:59 AM   
    DominantWrestler


    Posts: 338
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    Status: offline     		The Olympics are not the emblem of morality you might believe. Greta, you are partly right. It is forced sexuality in the workplace that people dislike

    Yes, some woman like to be sexualized, but they choose to be sexualized. It is choice that matters

    As for the group think thing, that is the most misinformed statement I have seen in a long time. Maybe the sexualized are caught up by the group thinking of fashion, men and Barbie to name a few.

    As for the religious in here, you spread sexualizing women and reducing them to a sinful facet of society. Shame on your hypocrisy

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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:31:15 AM   
    Kirata


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

    As for the religious in here, you spread sexualizing women and reducing them to a sinful facet of society. Shame on your hypocrisy

    Do all religious people do that, or just the ones in here?

    Hint: This is an intelligence test.

    K.

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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:31:31 AM   
    Greta75


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    Let me be perfectly clear, even though the topic is what women are THINKING when they say one thing but do the other, and not why they wear the clothes that they wear.

    They say they do not want to be sexualise. So they shouldn't be sexualised, despite wearing clothes that may make men think of sex. Nothing to do with doing one thing and do the other, but it has to do with you, sexualising them because of your male brain.

    quote:

    It's total BS that the skimpier clothes are cooler, so that is, was, and never will be the REASON for the women to wear the skimpy sexualized outfits.

    Come and live in Singapore with me, with 100% humidity and 33cel heat, sweating like a pig the moment you step out of the shower, 365 days a year. Men here practically jog without shirt on most of the time because ITS that hot! Everytime I go trail running, it's just filled with tons of shirtless men running with the skimpiest shorts that their butt cheek is showing. And those who bother to wear a shirt, when they take off their shirt, they squeeze it and lots of water would fall out from the crazy amount of sweats they emit. I've had so many men who went hiking with me in Malaysia, strip off their shirt infront of me, and continued shirtless. The shirt got tooo wet and heavy and uncomfortable to wear that they were getting a chill.

    Now we women definitely want to dress as skimpy as possible to keep cool. But we can't take our sports bra off unfortunately.

    And you know what? Our outdoor rock climbing walls too! Most guys climb topless. It's too hot and sweaty to wear a shirt. Fortunately, all rock climbers usually have damn hot upper bodies ha! They probably aren't doing it to sexualise themselves, but we women see it and sexualise them too as you can't help but admire a beautiful body right? Naked ripped chest!

    Lol, now I am sounding like a pervert, hanging out in places with shirtless men. I actually don't really notice, but your post now made me think how common it is for men to jog shirtless around here. And it's so normal, nobody blinks an eye. I mean, even urban jogs in the city, shirtless men are plentiful. Those confident enough to flash anyway. Shy ones may just still wear a shirt. But I'm usually hanging out in trails, so that's where there is seriously alot. More privacy, more men willing to jog shirtless. And it's all ages. You see 70 yr old men jog shirtless. Go hiking in Malaysian mountains, all the old power grandfathers, all hike barefoot and shirtless with skimpy shorts. Basically old men who kick my ass in sports.



    < Message edited by Greta75 -- 2/1/2016 1:50:28 AM >

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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:44:45 AM   
    crumpets


    Posts: 1614
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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Greta75
    When a woman dresses in a certain way that looks sexy to men, it may not be sexual to us. We just think we look good. And it's fashion.

    You have a point that it has always been this way, while it probably hasn't always been that women decry being objectified as sexual objects at the same time they wore clothes that amounted to same.

    In fact, I have heard from other women that it's fashion alone that causes them to wear what amounts to showing their panties to everyone that they meet on the street.

    In fact, I believe this "fashion" of showing lacy underthings has been going on for a very long time, as exemplified by the "lingerie dress" of the day, where the whole purpose of the lace, as far as I can tell, was to "appear" to be sexy underthings, all the while not actually showing all that much skin.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Greta75
    I mean men sexualise anything. Imagine in the medieval times, showing ankles was sexy and seen as women sexualising themselves.


    That may be true, but don't you think, even in the "olden days" that there were actually some purposefully sexual connotations to the prevalent Bustles, Petticoats and Hoop Skirts of the day?


    I mean, women aren't that ignorant of what they're wearing, are they, especially when it specifically and purposefully makes their butts look big.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Greta75
    Now it's like, ankles?? Blah!
    Next time, give it enough years, it would be like, Showing boobs? Blah! It's nothing, no longer sexual.


    I understand your point, which is that what is considered sexy changes over time.
    In fact, the mere hint of lace, lots and lot of it, by the way, (again, on purpose - always on purpose) was to be (accidentally, of course!) seen by men (constantly) whenever (wherever) women walked about in society even in the long gone "olden days" where the skin of ankles might have been considered scandalous.


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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:48:49 AM   
    Greta75


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: crumpets
    I mean, women aren't that ignorant of what they're wearing, are they, especially when it specifically and purposefully makes their butts look big.

    Women are vain and like to look in the mirror and think they look beautiful.
    For some women, having hour glass shape or bigger butt might be their pre-conceived notion of looking beautiful.

    Sometimes, looking beautiful isn't about being sexy. They just want to look physically beautiful, so they are pleasant to look at.

    I mean, it's like a cute little kitten or puppy, it's not sexualised, but it's sooo beautiful, and it's like awwww feelings. Like when we see a fellow girl dress soo gorgeous, and it's not sexual to us, although a man may look and think sexual, and we are going like awwwee, wow!!! You look amazing! Because we think she looks beautiful. And we are loving the look! But it's not sexual to us.


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    RE: Someone please explain to me what women are thinking - 2/1/2016 1:49:24 AM   
    DominantWrestler


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Kirata


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

    As for the religious in here, you spread sexualizing women and reducing them to a sinful facet of society. Shame on your hypocrisy

    Do all religious people do that, or just the ones in here?

    Hint: This is an intelligence test.

    K.




    Considering some here argue that America is a Christian country, I think it's pretty clear my target audience

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