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RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/15/2016 10:48:23 PM   
Phydeaux


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I had made quite a long discussion about this that appears to no longer be extant.

Canning vs NLRB essentially established that the senate is in recess when it says it is, and not when it says its not. Leaving the senate to deal with sticky wording until Feb 22. That said, it would be .. unusual for a president to make a recess appointment without even attempting to appoint.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 6:21:43 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

When both Bushes nominated people to the courts Dems were not shy about proclaiming their opposition before the nominee was announced, or have you forgotten that? There is nothing new in this except that this time the shoe is on the other foot.

I tend to avoid dwelling on the Bush Administrations, but I do vaguely recall the usual posturing along the lines of "Well, we'll need to take a hard look at whomever the President proposes."

I don't remember anyone's saying, "Oh, it's so close to an election that the President shouldn't even nominate anyone."

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 7:54:27 AM   
Phydeaux


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Bork
Estrada


Before democrats go about claimimng politics - I'd like to remind them of Bork - who was aknowledged one of the great legal minds of his time. And was perhaps the most egregious example of playing politics with a nomination.

Estrada - sidelined by democrats because he was hispanic.

Or lets recall the august words of Chuck Schumer ="With respect to the Supreme Court at least, I will recommend to my colleagues that we should not confirm any Bush nominee to the Supreme Court except in extraordinary circumstances.”

Now as to leaving the court vacant for 300 days being "unparalleled" - if the President of the United States can leave the inspector general for the state department vacate for 1,989 days - its not really unparallaeled .. is it.

That said - the republicans should have just said we will consider the presidents nomine's with all due speed - and sat on it like those 501c(4) applications were sat on for two years.....

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 8:08:01 AM   
Lucylastic


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You mean republicans wouldnt confirm his pick of mary kendal?

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RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 8:35:54 AM   
TallClevDom


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quote:


So the Dems who did the same thing under the Bushes where were failing to perform their constitutional duties? The Dems set this standard now they are whinning because the shoe is on the other foot.


Yes, they did. But to make that argument is simply childish spitballing, "They started it....waaaah!". It was wrong then and it's wrong now, and no "standard" was set. Yes, Bork got abused in the process (although I think he would have been a horrible jurist). The BS with Anita Hill during Thomas's confirmation process was also embarrassing and irrelevant (although not dissimilar to what was done to Clinton, dragging up crap that happened many years prior after the alleged "victim" sat silent for years).

My issue is with dogmatic ignorance. If you complain about an action from the opposite side but encourage or accept it from your own side, you're a hypocrite. If you don't think Obama should offer a nominee but you would have the opposite view if a Republican was in office, you're a hypocrite. If you think only one side gets it right all the time and the other is wrong all the time, well then, you've simply shut off your brain.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 8:44:39 AM   
Lucylastic


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WASHINGTON — The vow by Senate Republicans to block whomever President Obama nominates to fill the sudden vacancy on the Supreme Court presages a prolonged election year struggle, but the clash is less a new front against the White House than an escalation of a battle that had begun at the appeals court level before Justice Antonin Scalia died.

Since Republicans took control of the Senate in January 2015, the process that would enable Mr. Obama to fill vacancies on the 12 regional federal courts of appeal has essentially been halted. Mr. Obama has managed only one appointment because Republican senators have refused to sign off ahead of time on nominees for judgeships in their states — a traditional step before a president makes a nomination.

In the weeks before Justice Scalia’s death, influential conservative groups and commentators called on Senate Republicans to ensure that Mr. Obama appointed no more appeals court judges.

Among those commentators was Ed Whelan, a former clerk to Justice Scalia and a prominent blogger. He said in an interview Monday that conservatives could not compromise over any appointments to the upper ranks of the judiciary — including the appeals courts, which get the last word on matters the Supreme Court does not review and often serve as a breeding ground for future justices.

“This fight has been fought by both sides for decades,” Mr. Whelan said. “Conservatives believe with good reason that liberal judges will twist the Constitution and statutes to reach whatever result they want.”

Just as there is no precedent for leaving a Supreme Court seat open because it is an election year, as Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, vowed to do hours after Justice Scalia’s death was announced, there is also none for virtually shutting down the appointment of new appeals court judges so early. Each of Mr. Obama’s predecessors since Ronald Reagan also faced a Senate controlled by the opposing party, yet they appointed between 10 and 18 appellate judges in their last two years in office.

But history is no longer a guide in a polarized Washington, where partisan warfare over judicial nominations has been escalating for more than a generation.
“The current picture represents the continuing decline in the Senate’s ability to perform what was once a routine function — consenting to the appointment of qualified judicial nominees,” said Russell Wheeler, a Brookings Institution scholar who studies confirmations.

Republicans have framed their resistance as payback for the decision by Democrats in 2013 to change Senate rules and eliminate the ability of lawmakers in the minority to block confirmation votes with a filibuster. Republicans had used the tactic with unprecedented frequency while in the minority to slow or block Mr. Obama’s nominees as part of a tit-for-tat dating to 1987, when Senate Democrats rejected Reagan’s nomination of Robert H. Bork to the Supreme Court.

Last June, a conservative radio host referred to the rule change in an interview with Mr. McConnell, and asked how the new Republican majority was handling judges.


Mr. McConnell replied that “so far, the only judges we’ve confirmed have been federal district judges that have been signed off on by Republican senators.” He added that it was “highly likely” the pattern would remain for the rest of the 114th Congress.

At the time, there were eight vacancies on the appeals courts, but Mr. Obama had submitted the name of only one nominee: Luis Felipe Restrepo, a District Court judge in Philadelphia. He had Republican backing, and the Senate confirmed him last month.

Mr. Obama submitted no other names, according to administration officials, because the vacancies were in states that had at least one Republican senator, and those senators had refused to preapprove any nominee.

Traditionally, preapproval is part of the nomination process. The Senate Judiciary Committee generally does not schedule a hearing for a nominee without the consent of both senators from the state in which the seat is based, regardless of party.

Starting last month, Mr. Obama quietly broke with that tradition. He has now submitted nominees to fill four of those longstanding vacancies, even though none had preapproval from Republican senators. In an interview last week, Neil Eggleston, Mr. Obama’s White House counsel, said the president had moved forward because he hoped Republican senators would permit at least some to go through.

“The calendar was running out, and it was time to get moving,” Mr. Eggleston said. “At some point the process just has to get started.”

Last week, for example, Mr. Obama nominated Abdul Kallon, a District Court judge in Alabama, for an Alabama-based appeals court seat vacant since October 2013. Alabama’s senators, Richard C. Shelby and Jeff Sessions, both Republicans, had supported making Judge Kallon a federal judge in 2009, but they did not agree to elevating him.

In a speech to a Republican club in Alabama in January, Mr. Shelby said that he and Mr. Sessions were working to prevent Mr. Obama from filling any more of Alabama’s openings on the bench. When Mr. Obama announced the nomination last week, the two senators said they would oppose Judge Kallon.

After Mr. McConnell’s call to leave Justice Scalia’s seat open until the next administration, Senator Charles E. Grassley, the Iowa Republican who is chairman of the Judiciary Committee, voiced his agreement. But even before Justice Scalia’s death, he had made clear his opposition to moving any appeals court nominees in states where both senators did not sign off.

In response last week to a request for an interview on the subject of appeals court judges, Mr. Grassley pointed to a January speech in which he said his committee “will continue to hold hearings this year on judicial nominees, and we’ll continue to do our due diligence in evaluating those nominees.”

But Beth Levine, a spokeswoman for Mr. Grassley, added later that he “is following the longstanding precedent of the Senate, observed by both Democrats and Republicans, that absent signoff from both of the home state senators, the nominee does not go forward.”


When Mr. Obama took office, the appellate bench had been pushed to the right by President George W. Bush, who made filling vacancies a higher priority at the start than Mr. Obama did. Appointees of Republican presidents controlled nine of the 12 courts, while appointees of Democrats controlled one, according to data from Mr. Wheeler of the Brookings Institution.

Today, the pendulum has swung: Eight have majorities of active judges appointed by Democrats, and four are controlled by Republican-appointed judges.

(Mr. Obama has also made several appointments — including one in July 2015 — to the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, which has no home state senators and provokes little controversy because it specializes in patents and claims. And Mr. Obama has appointed 264 District Court judges, with several nominees who have Republican support and may yet be confirmed. Mr. Bush appointed 261 District Court judges and President Bill Clinton 305.)

If he makes no more appointments to the regional appeals courts, Mr. Obama will leave at least 12 vacancies to his successor, counting seats that recently came open or are expected to by the end of the year. By that measure, Mr. Obama’s appeals court record would be about the same as Mr. Bush’s and better than that of Mr. Clinton — who also had trouble with a Republican Senate and left more than two dozen seats open.

But by other measures, Mr. Obama is on track to be a historical anomaly. He has appointed just 48 judges to the regional appeals courts so far, while Mr. Bush and Mr. Clinton each appointed more than 60.

The gap between Mr. Obama’s numbers and his recent predecessors’ occurred in the final two years of their presidencies. Mr. Obama appears likely to appoint the fewest such judges during that period of any president since Congress created the courts of appeal in 1891, with one exception: President Grover Cleveland, who named none in the two years before he left office in 1897.

But Cleveland had no vacancies to fill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/16/us/politics/before-antonin-scalias-death-a-clash-between-gop-and-obama-over-appellate-judges.html?emc=edit_th_20160216&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=69606674&_r=0


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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 8:44:50 AM   
mnottertail


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Why not nominate Anita Hill?

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 9:23:07 AM   
Phydeaux


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I have no problem with the Senate declining bork.
It's politics.

What I have a problem with was the demonization and character assassination that accompanied it. Bork was an outstanding jurist,
And a good man. Have some class and just decline him, if that's what you're going to do.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 9:27:01 AM   
mnottertail


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Yeah, he was instrumental in the Saturday Night Massacre. Hardly an outstanding jurist, law and right be damned. A nutsucker goon is all he was.



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 11:37:55 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

When both Bushes nominated people to the courts Dems were not shy about proclaiming their opposition before the nominee was announced, or have you forgotten that? There is nothing new in this except that this time the shoe is on the other foot.

I tend to avoid dwelling on the Bush Administrations, but I do vaguely recall the usual posturing along the lines of "Well, we'll need to take a hard look at whomever the President proposes."

I don't remember anyone's saying, "Oh, it's so close to an election that the President shouldn't even nominate anyone."

Do you remember "I would rather he didn't nominate an African American because we are going to oppose whoever he nominates"?

_____________________________

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(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 11:41:30 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallClevDom


quote:


So the Dems who did the same thing under the Bushes where were failing to perform their constitutional duties? The Dems set this standard now they are whinning because the shoe is on the other foot.


Yes, they did. But to make that argument is simply childish spitballing, "They started it....waaaah!". It was wrong then and it's wrong now, and no "standard" was set. Yes, Bork got abused in the process (although I think he would have been a horrible jurist). The BS with Anita Hill during Thomas's confirmation process was also embarrassing and irrelevant (although not dissimilar to what was done to Clinton, dragging up crap that happened many years prior after the alleged "victim" sat silent for years).

My issue is with dogmatic ignorance. If you complain about an action from the opposite side but encourage or accept it from your own side, you're a hypocrite. If you don't think Obama should offer a nominee but you would have the opposite view if a Republican was in office, you're a hypocrite. If you think only one side gets it right all the time and the other is wrong all the time, well then, you've simply shut off your brain.

No, it is that the Dems picked the rules, they can't whine when the Reps play by them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to TallClevDom)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 3:50:23 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Do you remember "I would rather he didn't nominate an African American because we are going to oppose whoever he nominates"?

No.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 3:55:35 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, he was instrumental in the Saturday Night Massacre. Hardly an outstanding jurist, law and right be damned. A nutsucker goon is all he was.



I don't think having read (and heard) the entire story, that the Sat. night massacre could have been handled much differently or in fact...much better. Bork had just been put in a very tight spot and thought if he resigned it would have just made things worse and I agree.

Plus, Cox's replacement Jaworski did as well or better than anyone could have hoped.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 3:59:19 PM   
vincentML


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@DS

quote:

Clinton may have left office with a high rating, but that doesn't make him worthy of the bench. Why would you want someone willing to perjure to sit on the bench anyway? Does that seriously not bother you?

If Michelle can't be proud of her country until they elected a black President, can't you see a potential for punitive judgments from her?

I made a couple of suggestions to get the thread underway. You are really making too much of the names I selected. If you recall, the frame of reference was people who were highly favored by the public.

But since you insist on dicking around with my choices let me remind you that Clinton was not convicted by the Senate of any impeachable crime. As for his law license, there is nothing in the constitution that requires that a Justice must have a law license. Nor is there any requirement that a nominee must be "proud of his/her country." There is much to condemn in this nation's history and in its current circumstances. Where to begin? The lies that sent us into Vietnam/Iraq? The abominable healthcare availability for people in poverty or 200x poverty? The large number of jobless, impoverished families? The mass imprisonment of black men for nonviolent crimes? The prevalence of inner city slums? The large number of homeless or mentally ill veterans? The endless. useless war on drugs? The maltreatment of indigenous peoples? Four hundred years of slavery, Jim Crow, and discrimination of blacks? Don't get me started.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 2/16/2016 4:02:38 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 4:10:02 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

A bit of historical perspective.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/16/opinion/in-election-years-a-history-of-confirming-court-nominees.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/16/2016 4:21:31 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

A bit of historical perspective.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/16/opinion/in-election-years-a-history-of-confirming-court-nominees.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

Was just reading it myself.

Highlights:

In January 1932, when few expected Herbert Hoover to win a second term, Justice Oliver W. Holmes retired from the court. Rather than wait until after the election, President Hoover nominated and the Senate confirmed Benjamin N. Cardozo, a great justice. Even the Great Depression did not prevent the president and the Senate from fulfilling their constitutional duties.

Only Mr. Cleveland (a Democrat) faced a Senate controlled by the opposition party, while President Hoover’s Republican Party held only a one-vote majority in the Senate. Still, in both of these instances, the nominees were confirmed by wide margins. In fact, the 1932 confirmation of Justice Cardozo was unanimous.

In cases when vacancies have arisen during election years, the weight of history is clearly on the side of the president naming a successor and the Senate acting on that nomination.

The Republicans, who frequently cite the Constitution and look to historical precedent, have an opportunity to be true to their principles.

We'll see.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/17/2016 10:49:46 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Do you remember "I would rather he didn't nominate an African American because we are going to oppose whoever he nominates"?

No.

I didn't think you would.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/17/2016 1:13:41 PM   
Phydeaux


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The rules from 1932 went out the window with bork.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/17/2016 1:20:40 PM   
mnottertail


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Why, bork was dogshit and was declined like many other nominees. Dont make a turd a hero.

Otherwise, Clement Haynsworth, or even Abe Foratas

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: SHOULD OBAMA NOMINATE TO FILL THE SUPREME COURT VAC... - 2/17/2016 1:42:45 PM   
Phydeaux


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Regardless he didnt deserve the endless slurs.

In other news, the unforced political errors continue. The Republicans shouldn't have said anything about Obama's nominees and Obama shouldn't have snubbed his funeral.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 100
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