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reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 9:25:58 AM   
Svale


Posts: 68
Joined: 4/7/2015
Status: offline 		I watched a show where people discussed 'religion versus rationalism' - a loaded header, but interesting.

Having thought about it myself, I have the following arguments and would welcome comments:

Reasons for being religious:

Being brought up that way

Insecure circumstances (for instance poverty or dangerous jobs)

A need to believe in something 'more' than a materialistic, unjust and cruel world.

Reasons for being atheist:

Pressure from religious groups

Rationalism, things you can weigh and measure

Unable to believe in gods in an unjust world


What do you think??
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RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 9:35:34 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		You have only used two facets and ignored all the others.

Broadbrush answer: Individual choice. Whatever floats your boat at the time.
Whatever other reason you want to inject into the argument is just superfluous and irrelevant.

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George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Svale)
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RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 9:45:59 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		It's pretty interesting (to me) that some of the greatest thinkers the world has ever known (Socrates, Aristotle, et al.) agreed that creation logically implies a creator.
 
In other words, I think the case has been "proven" as much as it can be.
 
Now, just because I believe in a creator doesn't mean that my beliefs fall in line with any particular definition or description of that creator. Does this make me "non-religious"? I tend to think it does, until I find an organized religion that believes exactly as I do.
 
 
 
Michael

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 10:22:48 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Svale
Reasons for being religious:

Spiritual awareness.
Testimony from the pagan gods. I paraphrase: "There is a consciousness that is intertwined with everything in the universe, unto its smallest parts" (Aeneid book VI)

_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to Svale)
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RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 10:36:40 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline 		Because that's what seems right to me.

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RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 6:57:23 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
It's pretty interesting (to me) that some of the greatest thinkers the world has ever known (Socrates, Aristotle, et al.) agreed that creation logically implies a creator.
 
In other words, I think the case has been "proven" as much as it can be.
 
Now, just because I believe in a creator doesn't mean that my beliefs fall in line with any particular definition or description of that creator. Does this make me "non-religious"? I tend to think it does, until I find an organized religion that believes exactly as I do.
   Michael


I think that makes you "spiritual." I was raised Catholic, got saved and was a Protestant/Evangelical/Non-Denominational/What-the-fuck-ever. In that Church (not going to speak for all churches of the same or similar faiths, but just for that one), it was common for "being religious" to be a negative term. The ultimate example being Catholicism, with the robotic recitation of words, phrases and actions. I've gone to a Catholic mass probably 10 times (funerals, confirmations, etc.) in the last 30 years, and I still know when to kneel and when/what to recite. It's almost sickening.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
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RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 8:08:13 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I think that makes you "spiritual." I was raised Catholic, got saved and was a Protestant/Evangelical/Non-Denominational/What-the-fuck-ever. In that Church (not going to speak for all churches of the same or similar faiths, but just for that one), it was common for "being religious" to be a negative term. The ultimate example being Catholicism, with the robotic recitation of words, phrases and actions. I've gone to a Catholic mass probably 10 times (funerals, confirmations, etc.) in the last 30 years, and I still know when to kneel and when/what to recite. It's almost sickening.

I like to joke that I'm religious but not spiritual.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 8:34:02 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		FR
I'm an atheist because, I don't like the God I read about in the Bible or the Quran. So I've decided that, even if they were, 101% proven to be real Gods. I still wouldn't like them! They are mean Gods, with horrible character and personalities.
I mean, sometimes when over-zealous Christians start the saving you from hell thingy.

I'm like, you want me to like someone who is gonna send me to hell, unless I suck up to him?

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 8:35:29 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I think that makes you "spiritual." I was raised Catholic, got saved and was a Protestant/Evangelical/Non-Denominational/What-the-fuck-ever. In that Church (not going to speak for all churches of the same or similar faiths, but just for that one), it was common for "being religious" to be a negative term. The ultimate example being Catholicism, with the robotic recitation of words, phrases and actions. I've gone to a Catholic mass probably 10 times (funerals, confirmations, etc.) in the last 30 years, and I still know when to kneel and when/what to recite. It's almost sickening.



Actually, it's worse than even all of that. I was raised a Traditional Catholic (Latin Mass, No meat on Friday EVER, etc.) and, as a first son in a Catholic family, I was slated for the seminary.
 
I can still recite the entire Mass (pre-1958) in Latin and, when I say my prayers, I do recite the Confiteor in Latin.
 
I don't necessarily see these as negatives, per se. I adopt religious practices from all over. When my son died, I observed the Jewish tradition of having someone always with his body (I met the plane from Germany at the airport and flew with his coffin). When I pray, I usually kneel. Things like that.
 
I incorporate things that speak to my heart into my practices and those things are not limited strictly to one denomination or another.
 
 
 
Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 9:04:50 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		You have my complete and honest sympathy DaddySatyr. I have sat kadish with friends and it is quite a heartbreaking time. When comrades died in Africa, we buried them if we could, near where they died, and sang the old german soldiers song, "Ich hatte einen kameraden"and it brings on a similar feeling. There is a saying that there are no atheists in a slit-trench....................West Africa proved that to be a load of codswallop to me ( and I think many of the men I was with) and I wonder if similar revelations are happening in Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria even now.
There is no god.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/21/2016 9:14:19 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

You have my complete and honest sympathy DaddySatyr. I have sat kadish with friends and it is quite a heartbreaking time. When comrades died in Africa, we buried them if we could, near where they died, and sang the old german soldiers song, "Ich hatte einen kameraden"and it brings on a similar feeling. There is a saying that there are no atheists in a slit-trench....................West Africa proved that to be a load of codswallop to me ( and I think many of the men I was with) and I wonder if similar revelations are happening in Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria even now.
There is no god.



While I appreciate your sympathy, your condolences would have meant much more had you not taken the opportunity to proclaim YOUR gospel, at the very end.

Thank you, anyway,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/22/2016 2:08:11 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

It's pretty interesting (to me) that some of the greatest thinkers the world has ever known (Socrates, Aristotle, et al.) agreed that creation logically implies a creator.
 
In other words, I think the case has been "proven" as much as it can be.
 
Now, just because I believe in a creator doesn't mean that my beliefs fall in line with any particular definition or description of that creator. Does this make me "non-religious"? I tend to think it does, until I find an organized religion that believes exactly as I do.
 
 
 
Michael

Comparing religion and atheism is somewhat of a non sequitur. One is reliance upon something, the other is anti-theism...not believing in a god.

But doesn't that make you an agnostic ?

Personally I don't believe in the gods we've been told about in the books but that doesn't mean there isn't a creator. However I am not religious at all and do not believe there is an afterlife. If there is a god and he's all knowing, then he knows what's in my heart.

Otherwise, biblical figures Jesus/Moses et al, supply me with a moral philosophy to live by which to many cultures around the world, predates both of them but...nothing more.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/22/2016 3:56:08 AM   
Cinnamongirl67


Posts: 854
Status: offline 		https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
I am a Christian because I come from a very long line of generations who were Christians.
I was brought up religious but am not religious. This is what works for my spirit.
I have been on both sides of the fence, believing and not believing, I felt lead to believe again after gaining more knowledge and getting older. I am not rich nor am I poor.
I believe in the Trinity.

< Message edited by Cinnamongirl67 -- 2/22/2016 4:01:20 AM >

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http://youtu.be/Gl9AGlbe3YU

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/22/2016 5:11:24 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Comparing religion and atheism is somewhat of a non sequitur.



Really? Isn't the opposite of anti-theism, theism? I think there's a non-sequitur here, but it's not me that used it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
One is reliance upon something, the other is anti-theism...not believing in a god.

But doesn't that make you an agnostic ?



I can (kind of) follow your logic, here but I'm wondering where anything I typed can be taken as agnosticism? I said that I believed in a creator. Wouldn't a creator be a "god"; especially from the perspective of a human being? None of my friends can make an entire universe, just by having a hydrogen atom explode.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Otherwise, biblical figures Jesus/Moses et al, supply me with a moral philosophy to live by ...


Almost exactly what I believe (but I do put a LOT of emphasis on the words in red



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/22/2016 7:21:49 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I think that makes you "spiritual." I was raised Catholic, got saved and was a Protestant/Evangelical/Non-Denominational/What-the-fuck-ever. In that Church (not going to speak for all churches of the same or similar faiths, but just for that one), it was common for "being religious" to be a negative term. The ultimate example being Catholicism, with the robotic recitation of words, phrases and actions. I've gone to a Catholic mass probably 10 times (funerals, confirmations, etc.) in the last 30 years, and I still know when to kneel and when/what to recite. It's almost sickening.

Actually, it's worse than even all of that. I was raised a Traditional Catholic (Latin Mass, No meat on Friday EVER, etc.) and, as a first son in a Catholic family, I was slated for the seminary.
 
I can still recite the entire Mass (pre-1958) in Latin and, when I say my prayers, I do recite the Confiteor in Latin.
 
I don't necessarily see these as negatives, per se. I adopt religious practices from all over. When my son died, I observed the Jewish tradition of having someone always with his body (I met the plane from Germany at the airport and flew with his coffin). When I pray, I usually kneel. Things like that.
 
I incorporate things that speak to my heart into my practices and those things are not limited strictly to one denomination or another.
 
 
 
Michael


The problem I have with Catholicism is that it trains people to go through the motions. I'm sure there are plenty of very spiritual Catholics that aren't "religious." But, relying on attending mass and saying what you're supposed to say, kneeling when you're supposed to kneel means jack shit, if it's not coming from within (which is true for any religion).

Going to mass and just going through the motions doesn't make you spiritual and closer to God, just like standing in a garage and going "vroom vroom" doesn't make you a car.

That being said, you've incorporated traditions of differing religions. It seems like you're doing it not because that's "what you're supposed to do," but because it's what you've determined to be the right thing to do. That makes you not religious, in the context my former church members used.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/22/2016 7:40:45 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Comparing religion and atheism is somewhat of a non sequitur.



Really? Isn't the opposite of anti-theism, theism? I think there's a non-sequitur here, but it's not me that used it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
One is reliance upon something, the other is anti-theism...not believing in a god.

But doesn't that make you an agnostic ?



I can (kind of) follow your logic, here but I'm wondering where anything I typed can be taken as agnosticism? I said that I believed in a creator. Wouldn't a creator be a "god"; especially from the perspective of a human being? None of my friends can make an entire universe, just by having a hydrogen atom explode.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Otherwise, biblical figures Jesus/Moses et al, supply me with a moral philosophy to live by ...


Almost exactly what I believe (but I do put a LOT of emphasis on the words in red



Michael

Actually, as far at the query in the OP, atheism is not a religion, hence my belief in it being a non-sequitur. (an inference or a conclusion that does not follow from the premise)

My understanding is that an agnostic while you didn't write that...is a belief in a creator and doesn't need to make [him] a god in the biblical sense.


_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/22/2016 9:45:41 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Svale

I watched a show where people discussed 'religion versus rationalism' - a loaded header, but interesting.

What do you think??


I was raised as a Catholic, went to catechism and learned about God. As a child, I learned that you have to believe in God to go to heaven.. apparently it didn’t matter if you were a serial murderer that “found God” on the way to the gallows, you were welcome in Heaven.. if you were a good person but didn’t believe in God, the door was slammed shut on you.. as a kid of about 11years old, I thought that was wrong.. very, very wrong.. I decided then that God was no one I wanted to be in Heaven with.. that is the moment I rejected God & religion entirely.. so to me, God is a narcissistic sadist that pits humans against each other to watch the bloody outcome & horrible painful deaths (even as tiny innocent babies), revels in watching poor starving people that beg him for a better life (& letting them win the lotto?), turns a blind eye to his priests abusing and raping children and welcomes only those that would be stupid enough to kiss his (or her?) feet in Heaven..

So actually, I am not an atheist since I don’t know if he/she exists or not, I don’t believe or disbelieve, I simply don’t care or give a shite if God exists or not cuz he/she is no God I want to see regardless (assuming there is a “life” after this)… Everyone else can believe what they want, and no, I wont be changing my mind on God/religion, ever..


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RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/22/2016 4:03:48 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
FR
I'm an atheist because, I don't like the God I read about in the Bible or the Quran. So I've decided that, even if they were, 101% proven to be real Gods. I still wouldn't like them! They are mean Gods, with horrible character and personalities.
I mean, sometimes when over-zealous Christians start the saving you from hell thingy.

I'm like, you want me to like someone who is gonna send me to hell, unless I suck up to him?



_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/22/2016 4:10:14 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
you've incorporated traditions of differing religions. It seems like you're doing it not because that's "what you're supposed to do," but because it's what you've determined to be the right thing to do. That makes you not religious, in the context my former church members used.

It makes him to be more than a mindless parrot.


_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: reasons for being religious or atheist - 2/22/2016 4:14:10 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		I'm overly rational. Make of that what you will.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 20
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