RE: Why would someone do this?

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freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 12:48:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 We have had many threads where a simple "not interested" reply results in a barage of abuse from the sender. So yes, the 'fuck off and leave me alone' part is actually quite relevant in telling the sender not to follow up. And you think that 'fuck off' is going to get women a better response than 'not interested'? Aside from the fact that there's no point in giving that sort of reply to a guy who is just clueless and not engaging (but not rude). The fact remains that if you're not interested, and you don't feel like catching abuse for saying so, the best reply is no reply. It's got the best odds of not being followed up with threats and insults. And if he's the kind of guy who looks like he might threaten and insult you for no reply (which happens as well, though less frequently) your best course of action is just to block him immediately. That's what I was saying! I didn't say to reply with "fuck off", I said that's what a no reply usually means. Try reading what was posted.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 12:56:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather A guy should have no expectations when sending out a message. Not that it will be read, not that it will be responded to. Yup. A guy should have no expectation that a woman will give a fuck about his message, any more than a random guy on the street should expect a reply when he asks a woman for a date or her phone number. When you contact people who didn't specifically ask you to contact them, it's up to them to decide whether or not they consider your contact welcome or whether it's unwanted. If your advance is unwanted, it does not create an obligation on the person you made an advance to to reply. If you randomly start talking to me on the street, I do not owe you a reply. The fact that you did something to approach me does not create an obligation on me to respond to your approach. quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather Even if he puts hours and hours of effort into that message, being as relevant to her profile, he should not expect an answer. If you go through hours and hours of effort to put up a big elaborate event to ask a girl out you keep seeing at the mall, she's not obligated to respond to you. The time you spend is irrelevant. The fact remains that your effort does not create an obligation in other people to acknowledge you if they haven't already indicated that they wish you put in that effort. Just because a girl is single and looking doesn't means she's interested in you. It doesn't mean that she's indicated that effort from you to get to know her is welcomed. Your effort does not create an obligation in her to acknowledge you, unless she specified that she wanted you to put in that effort, before you did so. The fact that this is a dating site doesn't change that, because this place is akin to a singles bar offline. Just because a woman is alone in a single bar doesn't mean that she's obligated to talk to you when you say 'hi' to her. It doesn't matter that she's there looking for a date, and there looking to talk to people. If you say 'hi', she's not obligated to reply, even to tell you that she's not interested. quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather So, uhm, why should guys message anyone in the first place? You just said, the odds favor a woman getting a rude response to any rejection, so you guys don't answer any you remotely find unappealing or relevant (Keep in mind, only you the recipient knows the answers to this, not the sender). So really, what's the motivation for any guy to send out unsolicited/cold messages... You shouldn't message anybody you don't know at all, if you're insisting on replies. If a reply is what you want, stick to people you know and who have already indicated that they want to talk to you (friends, family, etc). If you're looking for a date, and you see somebody interesting to you, you might want to shoot them an advance anyways KNOWING that just because you approach them doesn't mean that they're now obligated to respond positively to you (or at all). The same exact thing applies to women: when we approach a guy on the street, on in a bar, or on a dating site, we're also not guaranteed a reply. If the man we approach isn't interested, he may very well ignore us. The odds of him ignoring us (just like for you) go up drastically when we're talking about a dating site instead of a bar. That's how dating works... you try to talk to people you're interested in TO FIND OUT if they're interested in talking to you. Just because you're already interested in them does not mean that they're obligated to be interested in you, or to reply to you. If you can't cope with the fact that people who aren't interested in you aren't going to talk to you, and aren't in any way shape or form obligated to even acknowledge your existence, you shouldn't be on a dating site, and you shouldn't send out messages. Ever. You wanting to find a date does not obligate other people to talk to you... in any way... ever.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 12:57:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 We have had many threads where a simple "not interested" reply results in a barage of abuse from the sender. So yes, the 'fuck off and leave me alone' part is actually quite relevant in telling the sender not to follow up. And you think that 'fuck off' is going to get women a better response than 'not interested'? Aside from the fact that there's no point in giving that sort of reply to a guy who is just clueless and not engaging (but not rude). The fact remains that if you're not interested, and you don't feel like catching abuse for saying so, the best reply is no reply. It's got the best odds of not being followed up with threats and insults. And if he's the kind of guy who looks like he might threaten and insult you for no reply (which happens as well, though less frequently) your best course of action is just to block him immediately. That's what I was saying! I didn't say to reply with "fuck off", I said that's what a no reply usually means. Try reading what was posted. Sorry, misread what you were saying.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 1:04:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ImperialPath quote: ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman I guess the crux of the matter I gather from 10 pages of discussions is that its tough being a guy here due to scarcity of messages, and its tough being a girl here due to a flood of messages. - asn Wouldn't you hate to be getting so many useless messages, hundreds rather than several that guys get in a day or even a week. Guys get a message back from one of their emails then it is usually a polite no thanks or a real interested reply or an obvious faker. I personally would much rather be a guy in this situation, and only get a couple of messages here and there, instead of pages full of them. The reason I'd rather be a guy is because the result for both genders are the same: the pickings are slim, and it's really really hard to find a suitable partner online, and it takes a lot of effort to sift through all the people who you aren't compatible with, to finally find one who might be. Except that for women, the whole process wastes a lot more time, because in addition to having to read a ton of profiles to find one you're interested in, mail it (and then potentially get turned down) you also have to deal with tons of unsolicited messages from people you wouldn't have been interested in the first place, if you were the one making the first move, but now you still waste the time reading their message, and managing it. Considering that every man I've dated on this site I've dated because I contacted him first, I'd much rather get no unsolicited messages at all. In fact, when I'm looking for somebody, ideally I'd be able to hide my profile in such a way so that it was only visible to people I mailed first.

ImperialPath -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 1:54:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: ImperialPath quote: ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman I guess the crux of the matter I gather from 10 pages of discussions is that its tough being a guy here due to scarcity of messages, and its tough being a girl here due to a flood of messages. - asn Wouldn't you hate to be getting so many useless messages, hundreds rather than several that guys get in a day or even a week. Guys get a message back from one of their emails then it is usually a polite no thanks or a real interested reply or an obvious faker. I personally would much rather be a guy in this situation, and only get a couple of messages here and there, instead of pages full of them. The reason I'd rather be a guy is because the result for both genders are the same: the pickings are slim, and it's really really hard to find a suitable partner online, and it takes a lot of effort to sift through all the people who you aren't compatible with, to finally find one who might be. Except that for women, the whole process wastes a lot more time, because in addition to having to read a ton of profiles to find one you're interested in, mail it (and then potentially get turned down) you also have to deal with tons of unsolicited messages from people you wouldn't have been interested in the first place, if you were the one making the first move, but now you still waste the time reading their message, and managing it. Considering that every man I've dated on this site I've dated because I contacted him first, I'd much rather get no unsolicited messages at all. In fact, when I'm looking for somebody, ideally I'd be able to hide my profile in such a way so that it was only visible to people I mailed first. All good and welcome perspectives. For the guys, if you get a polite but negative reply, don't give up so quickly. Send her another note with something positive asking her something about herself and make sure the first sentence is positive so she knows you are replying just as you might if you happen to meet her in a bar and are trying to interest her. She will not take offense at you writing again, most likely, and might even "bite" on the second positive note and reply. Always end your note with a question which then gives her an excuse to right back without seeming to be too forward, she will be looking for an excuse to write back if you interest her even a little. Every communication to her needs to not leave her with no reason to reply or the conversation might stop. I found this is a successful approach and while it does not guarantee results every time it does get good results and they might be no shows but honestly I've never had a noshow after writing and then talking on the phone for a week or so. Maybe it's the charm. Work on your charm. CS women like to be charmed like any others.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 2:20:37 PM)
quote: For the guys, if you get a polite but negative reply, don't give up so quickly. Send her another note with something positive asking her something about herself and make sure the first sentence is positive so she knows you are replying just as you might if you happen to meet her in a bar and are trying to interest her. NO NO NO NO NO Or if you do, don't be surprised if the response to it is no longer polite. This is exactly what people have been talking about on all these pages. ..men who don't accept a "no" response. They push and that's annoying. And could be construed as disrespectful. quote: She will not take offense at you writing again, most likely, and might even "bite" on the second positive note and reply. Actually she probably will. Because you are ignoring her opinion/preferences. You are second - guessing her. quote: Always end your note with a question which then gives her an excuse to right back without seeming to be too forward, she will be looking for an excuse to write back if you interest her even a little. If she has already rejected you, she is not looking for an excuse to write back. quote: Every communication to her needs to not leave her with no reason to reply or the conversation might stop. All communication with her needs to stop when she says "no". quote: I found this is a successful approach Well then you are the exception because most women hate that shit.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 2:25:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ImperialPath For the guys, if you get a polite but negative reply, don't give up so quickly. Send her another note with something positive asking her something about herself and make sure the first sentence is positive so she knows you are replying just as you might if you happen to meet her in a bar and are trying to interest her. Writing me again, in a capacity that shows that you're still fishing for a date, after I've already turned you down, will result in me blocking you. If I said no, I mean no. Not respecting that reinforces the fact that you're not the type of guy I'd be interested in. I'm more than happy to carry on a social conversation with guys I'm not interested in dating, and I've done so in the past with men that I've turned down. But pushing again for a date after I've indicated that I'm not interested gets you blocked because it shows me that you don't give a shit about me, or my preferences.

Danemora -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 2:29:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ImperialPath All good and welcome perspectives. For the guys, if you get a polite but negative reply, don't give up so quickly. Send her another note with something positive asking her something about herself and make sure the first sentence is positive so she knows you are replying just as you might if you happen to meet her in a bar and are trying to interest her. She will not take offense at you writing again, most likely, and might even "bite" on the second positive note and reply. Always end your note with a question which then gives her an excuse to right back without seeming to be too forward, she will be looking for an excuse to write back if you interest her even a little. Every communication to her needs to not leave her with no reason to reply or the conversation might stop. I found this is a successful approach and while it does not guarantee results every time it does get good results and they might be no shows but honestly I've never had a noshow after writing and then talking on the phone for a week or so. Maybe it's the charm. Work on your charm. CS women like to be charmed like any others. This honestly would piss me off and likely result in me blocking you (general you) altogether. "No thank you" means "NO thank you." Its not an invitation to keep at it after that point. If someone cant even respect my wishes as far as not being interested in communicating further with them, it sends me a clear message they wouldn't respect other aspects like limits.

ThatDizzyChick -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 2:43:01 PM)
quote: She will not take offense at you writing again I sure as fuck would.

Darkfeather -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 3:31:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul If that's all you want to take away from everything everyone has said, then yes. You are right. Men are wasting their time and there is no point. Your time would be better spent whacking off to porn. Have at it. quote: What I feel doesn't matter. And since I have given my personal opinion on the matter, it seems that's all we talk about. Well, sort of because I have already said I don't expect answers from my own messages. Lets try this. This statement now replaces any and all others made by me on the subject. First, when someone sends out a message, they kinda you know, expect an answer. Do they deserve one, no. Are they entitled to one, no. Should the recipient of that message be jailed for not answering, no. But should the sender, the person who proffered that message in the first place, expect an answer, yes. Already stated what I take away from all this. So please break it down for a 2 year-old. Obviously, ther eare lots of guys who send messages here, who feel they DO send out meaningful, well thought out messages. And yet, those same guys are puzzled by not getting responses, or cut off after a few back-and-forth's. The original poster, and what I have been trying to find out after 11 pages, is obviously women have their own reasons for ignoring, replying, not replying, deleting, etc. The poor original poster (bet he long since abandoned this thread) simply wanted to know why. Obviously, the woman he messaged, had her reasons to reply, and her reasons to stop. But she didn't share them. To him, he is as clueless as to what he did right or wrong now as he was before. Unless I am really missing something, I get the reason he didn't get a reply, or reason, is because it's a waste of time to. The woman in question simply evaluated the relationship and found nothing worthwhile in continuing. And from what I get from his question, he has no problem with that, he just would have liked the actual words. Not sure where you are going with the whacking off to porn bit, but, sure?

Darkfeather -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 3:34:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather A guy should have no expectations when sending out a message. Not that it will be read, not that it will be responded to. Yup. A guy should have no expectation that a woman will give a fuck about his message, any more than a random guy on the street should expect a reply when he asks a woman for a date or her phone number. When you contact people who didn't specifically ask you to contact them, it's up to them to decide whether or not they consider your contact welcome or whether it's unwanted. If your advance is unwanted, it does not create an obligation on the person you made an advance to to reply. If you randomly start talking to me on the street, I do not owe you a reply. The fact that you did something to approach me does not create an obligation on me to respond to your approach. quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather Even if he puts hours and hours of effort into that message, being as relevant to her profile, he should not expect an answer. If you go through hours and hours of effort to put up a big elaborate event to ask a girl out you keep seeing at the mall, she's not obligated to respond to you. The time you spend is irrelevant. The fact remains that your effort does not create an obligation in other people to acknowledge you if they haven't already indicated that they wish you put in that effort. Just because a girl is single and looking doesn't means she's interested in you. It doesn't mean that she's indicated that effort from you to get to know her is welcomed. Your effort does not create an obligation in her to acknowledge you, unless she specified that she wanted you to put in that effort, before you did so. The fact that this is a dating site doesn't change that, because this place is akin to a singles bar offline. Just because a woman is alone in a single bar doesn't mean that she's obligated to talk to you when you say 'hi' to her. It doesn't matter that she's there looking for a date, and there looking to talk to people. If you say 'hi', she's not obligated to reply, even to tell you that she's not interested. quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather So, uhm, why should guys message anyone in the first place? You just said, the odds favor a woman getting a rude response to any rejection, so you guys don't answer any you remotely find unappealing or relevant (Keep in mind, only you the recipient knows the answers to this, not the sender). So really, what's the motivation for any guy to send out unsolicited/cold messages... You shouldn't message anybody you don't know at all, if you're insisting on replies. If a reply is what you want, stick to people you know and who have already indicated that they want to talk to you (friends, family, etc). If you're looking for a date, and you see somebody interesting to you, you might want to shoot them an advance anyways KNOWING that just because you approach them doesn't mean that they're now obligated to respond positively to you (or at all). The same exact thing applies to women: when we approach a guy on the street, on in a bar, or on a dating site, we're also not guaranteed a reply. If the man we approach isn't interested, he may very well ignore us. The odds of him ignoring us (just like for you) go up drastically when we're talking about a dating site instead of a bar. That's how dating works... you try to talk to people you're interested in TO FIND OUT if they're interested in talking to you. Just because you're already interested in them does not mean that they're obligated to be interested in you, or to reply to you. If you can't cope with the fact that people who aren't interested in you aren't going to talk to you, and aren't in any way shape or form obligated to even acknowledge your existence, you shouldn't be on a dating site, and you shouldn't send out messages. Ever. You wanting to find a date does not obligate other people to talk to you... in any way... ever. See, beautiful, wonderful... A straight answer. Finally, someone willing to say, "suck it up guys". So take this to heard men (or women) seeing cold contact, go into it with absolutely no expectations of an answer

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 3:57:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather See, beautiful, wonderful... A straight answer. Finally, someone willing to say, "suck it up guys". So take this to heard men (or women) seeing cold contact, go into it with absolutely no expectations of an answer I have said from the start that you should not expect and answer, because you doing something you choose to do does not create the obligation on another person to respond. Nobody should expect anything from a stranger they haven't had any previous interaction with, just because they chose to do something out of their desire. There's certain situations in which its certainly nice, or polite, or courteous to respond positively to a stranger approaching you, but there is no obligation to do so, and as such you shouldn't expect it. If you hold open a door for a random woman you don't know, it's certainly nice if she says 'thank you', but you should expect it, because she did not ASK you to hold open that door for her, and so she is in no way obligated to acknowledge your desire to do so. In fact, she would be perfectly justified if she stopped walking the second you attempted to hold open that door for her, and refused to go through it unless she got to open it herself, if that's what she wants to do, because you are not entitled to expect her to respond positively for something she didn't desire you to do.

ImperialPath -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 4:07:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul quote: For the guys, if you get a polite but negative reply, don't give up so quickly. Send her another note with something positive asking her something about herself and make sure the first sentence is positive so she knows you are replying just as you might if you happen to meet her in a bar and are trying to interest her. NO NO NO NO NO Or if you do, don't be surprised if the response to it is no longer polite. This is exactly what people have been talking about on all these pages. ..men who don't accept a "no" response. They push and that's annoying. And could be construed as disrespectful. quote: She will not take offense at you writing again, most likely, and might even "bite" on the second positive note and reply. Actually she probably will. Because you are ignoring her opinion/preferences. You are second - guessing her. quote: Always end your note with a question which then gives her an excuse to right back without seeming to be too forward, she will be looking for an excuse to write back if you interest her even a little. If she has already rejected you, she is not looking for an excuse to write back. quote: Every communication to her needs to not leave her with no reason to reply or the conversation might stop. All communication with her needs to stop when she says "no". quote: I found this is a successful approach Well then you are the exception because most women hate that shit. Women don't react much differently here on Cmail than they do at a bar and women test us there at the bar and also here. So, when we write a positive intro cmail and she writes back "no thanks" and instead of tucking tail and running we write back thanking her for her quick reply and we ask something else, something about her or something she might be interested in and then send it and wait for a reply, or not, how can this be bad especially when I know it works? Perhaps you don't think so?

ImperialPath -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 4:11:23 PM)
quote: All communication with her needs to stop when she says "no". quote: Like hell. If that were true we would be very weak men indeed because men simply cannot give up that easily or they would have to accept second rate women. Heh?

ImperialPath -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 4:12:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick quote: She will not take offense at you writing again I sure as fuck would. Why?

ImperialPath -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 4:14:40 PM)
[quoteSee, beautiful, wonderful... A straight answer. Finally, someone willing to say, "suck it up guys". So take this to heard men (or women) seeing cold contact, go into it with absolutely no expectations of an answer ][/quote] No successful man can have that attitude. If you don't want that specific woman than don't write but if you do want her then write with high hopes and so do it right to the best of your ability or you don't write at all.

ImperialPath -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 4:21:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora quote: ORIGINAL: ImperialPath All good and welcome perspectives. For the guys, if you get a polite but negative reply, don't give up so quickly. Send her another note with something positive asking her something about herself and make sure the first sentence is positive so she knows you are replying just as you might if you happen to meet her in a bar and are trying to interest her. She will not take offense at you writing again, most likely, and might even "bite" on the second positive note and reply. Always end your note with a question which then gives her an excuse to right back without seeming to be too forward, she will be looking for an excuse to write back if you interest her even a little. Every communication to her needs to not leave her with no reason to reply or the conversation might stop. I found this is a successful approach and while it does not guarantee results every time it does get good results and they might be no shows but honestly I've never had a noshow after writing and then talking on the phone for a week or so. Maybe it's the charm. Work on your charm. CS women like to be charmed like any others. This honestly would piss me off and likely result in me blocking you (general you) altogether. "No thank you" means "NO thank you." Its not an invitation to keep at it after that point. If someone cant even respect my wishes as far as not being interested in communicating further with them, it sends me a clear message they wouldn't respect other aspects like limits. ..and that is right for you to think that. I understand you don't need my concurrence on your perspective but do want to say I agree this is good for you. At the same time I thought I would remind you that men sending you two messages that are both very positive does not mean he is ignoring your wishes, it's what men do and you can get angry or you can be pleased some great guy out there likes you and was trying to catch your eye. You don't have to write back just as at a bar you can ignore a guy trying to strike up a conversation, surely you would not get angry because you know he is supposed to do that.

UllrsIshtar -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 4:28:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ImperialPath you can be pleased some great guy out there likes you and was trying to catch your eye. I'm always pleased when a great guy tries to catch my eye. I'm also always pleased when a guy ignores me turning him down, because it shows me, very clearly, that he isn't a great guy and so I was right not to waste my time on him.

Danemora -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 4:39:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ImperialPath quote: ORIGINAL: Danemora quote: ORIGINAL: ImperialPath All good and welcome perspectives. For the guys, if you get a polite but negative reply, don't give up so quickly. Send her another note with something positive asking her something about herself and make sure the first sentence is positive so she knows you are replying just as you might if you happen to meet her in a bar and are trying to interest her. She will not take offense at you writing again, most likely, and might even "bite" on the second positive note and reply. Always end your note with a question which then gives her an excuse to right back without seeming to be too forward, she will be looking for an excuse to write back if you interest her even a little. Every communication to her needs to not leave her with no reason to reply or the conversation might stop. I found this is a successful approach and while it does not guarantee results every time it does get good results and they might be no shows but honestly I've never had a noshow after writing and then talking on the phone for a week or so. Maybe it's the charm. Work on your charm. CS women like to be charmed like any others. This honestly would piss me off and likely result in me blocking you (general you) altogether. "No thank you" means "NO thank you." Its not an invitation to keep at it after that point. If someone cant even respect my wishes as far as not being interested in communicating further with them, it sends me a clear message they wouldn't respect other aspects like limits. ..and that is right for you to think that. I understand you don't need my concurrence on your perspective but do want to say I agree this is good for you. At the same time I thought I would remind you that men sending you two messages that are both very positive does not mean he is ignoring your wishes, it's what men do and you can get angry or you can be pleased some great guy out there likes you and was trying to catch your eye. You don't have to write back just as at a bar you can ignore a guy trying to strike up a conversation, surely you would not get angry because you know he is supposed to do that. Yes, it does mean he is ignoring my wish to not talk further by messaging me again. It becomes harassment at some point. No means no. Period. End of story.

Darkfeather -> RE: Why would someone do this? (3/23/2016 4:51:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar quote: ORIGINAL: Darkfeather See, beautiful, wonderful... A straight answer. Finally, someone willing to say, "suck it up guys". So take this to heard men (or women) seeing cold contact, go into it with absolutely no expectations of an answer I have said from the start that you should not expect and answer, because you doing something you choose to do does not create the obligation on another person to respond. Nobody should expect anything from a stranger they haven't had any previous interaction with, just because they chose to do something out of their desire. There's certain situations in which its certainly nice, or polite, or courteous to respond positively to a stranger approaching you, but there is no obligation to do so, and as such you shouldn't expect it. If you hold open a door for a random woman you don't know, it's certainly nice if she says 'thank you', but you should expect it, because she did not ASK you to hold open that door for her, and so she is in no way obligated to acknowledge your desire to do so. In fact, she would be perfectly justified if she stopped walking the second you attempted to hold open that door for her, and refused to go through it unless she got to open it herself, if that's what she wants to do, because you are not entitled to expect her to respond positively for something she didn't desire you to do. I would argue the opposite. In polite society, it is absolutely expected to get/say please and thank you. If I hold a door for someone, I damn well expect a thank you. Do I get it, more often than not, no. But you better be sure, I expect it. To that end, if someone holds a door for me, guess what? I say thank you. A waiter brings me a menu, I say thank you. A cashier gives me change, I say thank you. Why, because its what ya do in polite society. We are talking about expectation versus result here... There are no laws forcing us to be polite, hell in some cities people take it as their right to be rude pricks. But to say we should not expect politeness? We should not go into every exchange with another human being, both offering and receiving common courtesy/politeness? No. Again, this is expectation versus result. I put it out there that everyone should expect politeness.

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