quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

since I actually have to go through this pointed explanation.

Actually you don't have to, you chose to, though for what reason escapes me.

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No, no, don't bother to explain

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

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No, no, don't bother to explain

Don't worry, I had no intention of trying with you.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I have expectations when I hold a door for someone. That doesn't obligate them to be courteous. Neither does it absolve them of being rude or discourteous. Also, it doesn't require me to stop thinking of the behavior as rude or discourteous. I think it shows a lack of nurture or behavior. Either way, they get nothing except the most basic of courtesies from me, from then on.

With you, Michael, I totally agree, because you have shown before that you are actually a man who says what he means and means what he says. So with you, I'm sure that when you say "expectation" you mean "a strong believe that something will happen", and don't mean "obligation".

So yes, I totally agree with you, it's perfectly normal and acceptable for you to expect cutesy as in: it's totally acceptable for you to anticipate that people will be polite. I'll even go further and say that it's totally acceptable for you to desire that people will be polite.

Though I will also point out that "writing somebody a mail unsolicited" does not equal "doing something nice for them". But I've got a feeling that you already get that.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I have expectations when I hold a door for someone. That doesn't obligate them to be courteous. Neither does it absolve them of being rude or discourteous. Also, it doesn't require me to stop thinking of the behavior as rude or discourteous. I think it shows a lack of nurture or behavior. Either way, they get nothing except the most basic of courtesies from me, from then on.

With you, Michael, I totally agree, because you have shown before that you are actually a man who says what he means and means what he says. So with you, I'm sure that when you say "expectation" you mean "a strong believe that something will happen", and don't mean "obligation".

So yes, I totally agree with you, it's perfectly normal and acceptable for you to expect cutesy as in: it's totally acceptable for you to anticipate that people will be polite. I'll even go further and say that it's totally acceptable for you to desire that people will be polite.

Though I will also point out that "writing somebody a mail unsolicited" does not equal "doing something nice for them". But I've got a feeling that you already get that.

So ... let's ask the question this way: On a site like this (the other side, actually), if someone's profile includes the words: " ... message me ..." (or " ... send me an email ..." or some variation) and I send a nice, respectful, thoughtful message, is that person (that solicited emails from people, indiscriminately) obligated to respond to my message (for the purposes of this question, let's assume the person mentioned three or four points that I feel describe me and their profile does not contain the word "monogamy")?





Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
So ... let's ask the question this way: On a site like this (the other side, actually), if someone's profile includes the words: " ... message me ..." (or " ... send me an email ..." or some variation) and I send a nice, respectful, thoughtful message, is that person (that solicited emails from people, indiscriminately) obligated to respond to my message (for the purposes of this question, let's assume the person mentioned three or four points that I feel describe me and their profile does not contain the word "monogamy")?



Michael

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ORIGINAL: SEVADom

Or they're all fakes. This was in a posted profile today from "SororitySister":

"I guess it’s time to spill the beans. I am a Sorority Sister of a nationwide Sorority and we have over 200 of our sisters that have been making all you so called dominants look like idiots for years now, clear back to the CollarMe years of this current website. ... Yes we have been posting fake profiles going back to 2005 and over the last eleven years our Sorority is responsible for posting more than 10,000 fake profiles ..."

Read the whole profile; it explains a lot.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
So ... let's ask the question this way: On a site like this (the other side, actually), if someone's profile includes the words: " ... message me ..." (or " ... send me an email ..." or some variation) and I send a nice, respectful, thoughtful message, is that person (that solicited emails from people, indiscriminately) obligated to respond to my message (for the purposes of this question, let's assume the person mentioned three or four points that I feel describe me and their profile does not contain the word "monogamy")?



Michael

Actually, I'd say no because I don't feel that anybody is obligated to respond to any message for any reason of their choosing at any given time. In addition, you happened to hit on one of the areas where I think you and I see things differently. For you, the criteria is that the profile lacks the word "monogamy". Mine is that the person specifies that they are poly or poly optional. That way I, as a poly person, am not trying to pick up on people who (if you go by the odds) by percentages are more likely to be monogamous than some form of poly. Unless the recipient of your email has "poly" in her profile or has checked 'seeking a poly household,' you potentially set up a HUGE area of incompatibility.

That is something that has been bugging me about this thread. I'm willing to believe a high majority of what you gentlemen are saying. The only piece I didn't was DF's "hours and hours" to craft an introductory email. (Made me want to ask if he was writing "War and Peace".) The guy who said he's been successful pushing women further after they've turned him down, I'm exceptionally skeptical of, but he might have lucked into the very few women that wouldn't irritate. Not worth debating. No stats on how many times it worked rather than didn't.

What I never understand about these threads is why don't the gentlemen work with what they know? If you sit here and say you have a lousy reply rate (<10%) why would anyone say their expectation is for a reply, when your own personal experience says you wont get one? Some of the replies on this thread (trying to bend the other person's preferences about age, distance, etc) are just bad tactics that are lowering your results.

The answer isn't keep making the same mistakes or giving up completely. The answer is listen to your target audience to achieve your goal. Wouldn't you agree?



Sorry for the edit. New laptop is driving me nuts.

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ORIGINAL: SuaveGentleman

Ok little bit of a rant but honestly I want to know why someone would do this, outside of being plain rude or insensitive.

3 girls within a period of 3 weeks. I read through their profiles and posts in great detail. I felt there was a potential connection, so I wrote to them. Nothing creepy, plain old fashioned introduction, what I am looking for, why I liked her profile. An invitation to connect if she felt she would like to know me as well.

If they did not respond at this stage I would say its more than understandable. Surely girls get 100s of messages - makes perfect sense. Maybe did not read mine. Maybe read it but did not feel any possible chemistry. Perfectly good reasons. In an ideal world I would have loved it if they wrote a single line saying "No sorry". But forget it, that's just fine.

Here's the problem. They reply back. They exchange a few mails getting to know each other. Sometimes they will say we should chat on Skype, sometimes I brought it up while keeping it completely optional on their comfort level. Often they said yes. If they did not - great, just keep the mails going back and forth until the trust develops.

Then one fine day - boom! Girl 1 stops replying to any emails. Girl 2 blocks me. Girl 3 closes account and runs away. Honestly I am not hiding anything here - it was not that I said something shitty which caused them to do this. Then I would not be asking this question out in the open. It was like a bolt from the blue.

Seriously? For all the time we invested in each other, could I not have expected at least a "Sorry I dont think we'll gel well" ?

I dont mean to say girls are the only ones that do this. I am sure men (boys?) have done it too, just that it would be outside of my personal experience.

I would like to believe these people were not outright fakes. Yet... what is it about an online connection that makes people treat it as so fragile and cheap? I am sorry if I am being silly here but with time we start investing not only time but emotions too. Sometimes I go to the extent of worrying whether something actually happened to her.

Just to be clear that these fears are not unfounded - this had happened previously with a "little" I had been in touch with. Very attached, very sweet, perfectly genuine. Then disappeared for 4 FULL MONTHS. Turns up later. Turned out she had major mental illness (I knew about it) and was borderline suicidal. I wish she had trusted me enough to tell me about it. Nevertheless we are friends now.

Any thoughts gentlemen / ladies?

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ORIGINAL: SEVADom

Or they're all fakes. This was in a posted profile today from "SororitySister":

"I guess it’s time to spill the beans. I am a Sorority Sister of a nationwide Sorority and we have over 200 of our sisters that have been making all you so called dominants look like idiots for years now, clear back to the CollarMe years of this current website. ... Yes we have been posting fake profiles going back to 2005 and over the last eleven years our Sorority is responsible for posting more than 10,000 fake profiles ..."

Read the whole profile; it explains a lot.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

In fact, taking into account how frequently it still happens, I consider it quite a testament to how I AM trying to be decent to guys (while they're, on average, not at all decent in response). Considering how often attempting to be civil backfires, I don't blame any woman for just blocking a guy immediately if she's not interested.

I know you want to think of the average guy as being pretty decent, but I'm sorry, the vast majority of them -on this site- just aren't decent and civil after you reject them. If you really are, you're a huge exception. A HUGE exception. Too bad that there isn't some surefire way to communicate that to the women out there, because it would give you a much better shot at getting one to write you back, even if it was for a 'thanks but no thanks'...

Since we're (primarily) talking about the other side: if one "took into account" how many time wasters, money-grabbers, and flat-out douche canoes had profiles here and then painted all of you ladies with that same brush ... day after day, week after week, year after year ... you ladies would get pretty frustrated, too.



Michael

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ORIGINAL: betataster
Unless the woman specifically says "I want younger guys", then I think it's fair game, if I'm attracted to her, for me to message her.

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ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
The biggest problem here, is we can't give specifics. On either side. I can't copy and paste an email I have sent out, ya'll just have to take my word for it. The other hand, you (collective, not specific), can't post the rude emails, or the useless emails. We are seeing this from two different sides, and neither is able to give common ground. But I can't say, to a guy, having a message that addresses points brought up in a profile, touching similarities in the fetish bucket list, and maybe answering a question or two posed in the journal section, constitutes, to us, taking the time to write a message. Honestly, this doesn't take all that long, you are simply responding to similarities, perceived, between yourself and the recipient. What guys are trying to clarify, is that "effort", reading the profile, finding key points, not sounding like a raving idiot (syntax, spelling, context, etc), to us it feels like work. And yeah, anyone who puts work/effort into something, wants to see some kind of return, any kind of return

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ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
No, they aren't obligated, however they have no right to complain about unsolicited messages.

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Exactly. Pushy behavior, repetitive requests for a reply, not taking NO for an answer, these all say NEEDY, GREEDY, and SELF-CENTERED.

More than once I've had a guy shoot himself in the foot because he either couldn't wait 48 hours for his message to get read, or started pleading for a response. (This has happened within a 2-4 hour period when I hadn't logged in for a couple of days!) The worst is when their insecurities really come to the forefront with the "Did I do/say something wrong?" as if they can't stand the thought of being ignored and/or rejected by a woman. What this accomplishes is setting off bells & whistles of a stalkerish-type of personality who should be avoided at all costs.

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ORIGINAL: SEVADom
Or they're all fakes. This was in a posted profile today from "SororitySister":

"I guess it’s time to spill the beans. I am a Sorority Sister of a nationwide Sorority and we have over 200 of our sisters that have been making all you so called dominants look like idiots for years now, clear back to the CollarMe years of this current website. ... Yes we have been posting fake profiles going back to 2005 and over the last eleven years our Sorority is responsible for posting more than 10,000 fake profiles ..."

Read the whole profile; it explains a lot.

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ORIGINAL: MissKatya

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ORIGINAL: SEVADom

Or they're all fakes. This was in a posted profile today from "SororitySister":

"I guess it’s time to spill the beans. I am a Sorority Sister of a nationwide Sorority and we have over 200 of our sisters that have been making all you so called dominants look like idiots for years now, clear back to the CollarMe years of this current website. ... Yes we have been posting fake profiles going back to 2005 and over the last eleven years our Sorority is responsible for posting more than 10,000 fake profiles ..."

Read the whole profile; it explains a lot.

Not to sound like a dick but sorority girls have better things to do than to sit on a dying website and fuck with the male population. They are usually fucking the male population in real time. Or Drinking. Or taking selfies of drinking. Or sleeping. The list goes on...