RE: Brussels, Belgium (Full Version)

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UllrsIshtar -> RE: Brussels, Belgium (3/23/2016 8:35:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I've just got word that my mother is actually close to somebody who got injured (I don't know the injured party personally)

I hope s/he heals quickly and completely.

Amen


She will be (my mother mentioned a name that's dual gender in text, so I had no idea until today about her gender even), she's only got a couple stitches in the shoulder.

Apparently she was outside of the airport with her back facing the windows when they blew out, and got hit with some glass. So nothing serious, aside from the shock.




Lucylastic -> RE: Brussels, Belgium (3/23/2016 8:37:39 AM)

Good to hear!!!!!




crazyml -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 8:51:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Belgium (and France and Turkey and Germany and ...) is a prime example of how well the Kumbai Yah European Socialism works in the real world.


I have a feeling you're not making reference to their VASTLY superior health systems when you make this comment.


Which exists only in liberals minds.




Which actually, and as a matter of recorded fact, exists in recorded and verified statistics. But hey. If you want to be schooled on the relative merits of different healthcare systems, start a thread on the topic.




mnottertail -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 8:58:17 AM)

Well the entire comments quoted by you craz are all pure unadulterated asswipe. the socialist-democratic systems have nothing to do with the issue.

Just nutsuckers getting every gob of felch sucked out that is available.




BondageersT -> RE: Brussels, Belgium (3/23/2016 9:05:36 AM)

ever since and before 9/11....
it became patently obvious that the uncivilized people of the world,
not only those of certain extractions,
JUST WANTED TO SPOIL THINGS FOR THE REST OF US.

?JEALOUSY//REVENGE//HATE/RACISM//SEXISM

you name it.




Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: Brussels, Belgium (3/23/2016 9:27:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BondageersT

ever since and before 9/11....
it became patently obvious that the uncivilized people of the world,
not only those of certain extractions,
JUST WANTED TO SPOIL THINGS FOR THE REST OF US.

?JEALOUSY//REVENGE//HATE/RACISM//SEXISM

you name it.


Or all the above.
In respect of our own upcoming traditions, may I play this song without prejudice. Just for the beauty of the depth of our powerful spirit.
http://youtu.be/1m8jGuapSmI




Phydeaux -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 9:53:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Belgium (and France and Turkey and Germany and ...) is a prime example of how well the Kumbai Yah European Socialism works in the real world.


I have a feeling you're not making reference to their VASTLY superior health systems when you make this comment.


Which exists only in liberals minds.




Which actually, and as a matter of recorded fact, exists in recorded and verified statistics. But hey. If you want to be schooled on the relative merits of different healthcare systems, start a thread on the topic.



And if you want to be schooled on why UN rankings in which 4/5 metrics have nothing to do with healthcare - start your own thread.
Ditto why life expectancy (the basis for a lot of EU statistics) is not an adequate stand in for medical excellence.

In short - don't expect to bring up spurious shit in a thread and then attempt to shutdown discussion on your shit by claiming its not germane.




crazyml -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 10:02:57 AM)

Babble babble. Start a thread.




Awareness -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 10:41:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
LMFAO
what utter dipshittery.
What utter ignorance.




Phydeaux -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 11:10:29 AM)

What is shocking the Brussels police, however, is the scale of Abdeslam’s network and its capacity to help him avoid capture for so long in a city that authorities were scouring for him. On the night of the Paris attacks, Abdeslam crossed the border into Belgium with the help of a friend. Although his name was flagged as a person of interest, the border guards’ system had not yet been updated with the information that he was one of the suspects. From there, it’s presumed that he returned home to Brussels, where he continued planning more attacks.

How is it that in a prosperous European country there can be enough support within the Muslim community for a man who had pledged his allegiance to ISIS?
In the months before the Paris attacks, he and the Syrian fighters with whom he linked up were helped by Abdeslam’s family, childhood friends, and other petty criminals to remain concealed. In the months after the attacks, he was helped by what it seems is a massive network of “friendlies” who were willing to shelter, hide, and perhaps even work with him on the next terrorist plot. When Abdeslam was finally apprehended, he was living a few hundred yards from his family’s home—right under the nose of the police.

Here we come to the crux of the problem. How is it that in a prosperous European country there can be enough support within the Muslim community for a man who had pledged his allegiance to ISIS, has already successfully completed one terrorist attack and is planning others, to be protected and aided?

The answer is that this is a problem of Europe’s own creating—and it’s not going away. Beginning in the post-World War II era, Europe was in need of workers to pad its depleted work force. A natural place to look was North Africa, in former colonies of Spain and France. While it was assumed that migration would be short-term, the reality is that the men who came to work stayed, and later brought over their families. Europe made no plan for how to house and assimilate these families (see Christopher Caldwell’s excellent book, “Reflections on the Revolution in Europe,” for an in-depth discussion of this topic).

More to the point, Europe was uncomfortable asking its Muslim communities to assimilate. European leaders felt that would be too reminiscent of the colonial era. Their guilt and newfound “enlightenment” guided them to leave these people to their communities, culture, and religion. At the same time, however, they also ostracized them. What resulted was tight-knit majority-Muslim enclaves often on the outskirts of major European cities (like Saint Denis on the outer edge of Paris, where one of the Paris attackers was found).

They are loyal, at best, to the local Muslim community with whom they share a sense of solidarity, or in its worst manifestations, to ISIS and its global sense of destiny.
These communities are volatile places that are not dissimilar, in some ways, to certain American inner cities. They remain close-knit via shared language, Arabic, shared religion, Islam, and a continued influx of immigration from their countries of origin. This is no longer just family reunification. It is common, for example, for second- and third-generation North African immigrants to look to their ancestral home for a spouse. This is most common among men. They want a woman uncorrupted by European values. These marriage practices keep a continuous supply of first-generation mothers having second-generation children.

These problems have now come home to roost. Europe has on its hands millions of Muslims, many of whom, although certainly not all, identify first as Muslims and second as Europeans. They are loyal, at best, to the local Muslim community with whom they share a sense of solidarity, or in its worst manifestations, to ISIS and its global sense of destiny. This manifests itself in its most extreme in attacking the great evil that is the West—even if it has been their home for their entire life. But, as has played out in the last few months, it is also manifesting itself in a large community of people willing to aid and abet terrorist networks in Europe.

What makes this situation so unique, and so dangerous, is the cooperation of foreign and domestic operatives. Syrian fighters, who, according to the Belgian Justice Minister Koen Geens, are coming over “constantly,” are wholly unfamiliar with Europe. But because they are plugged into a network of people who are not themselves terrorists but have little allegiance to Europe and have all the necessary local knowledge, the would-be terrorists can easily move undetected and successfully execute their attacks.

This latest attack in Brussels would not have been possible without this network of native-born, disaffected Muslims. For that, Europe has no one to blame but itself.




freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 11:33:14 AM)

I agree with a lot of your post except for one major thing - where the blame lies.

I don't agree that we in the west ostracize the muslims.
We ask them to integrate. Some do, but many do not.
When in Rome and all that; but many muslims refuse to integrate.
I see it as a self-imposed isolation rather than being ostracized by the west.
And they stick to their own communities because the western way of life is quite alien to theirs.
And as you mentioned, I firmly believe that their allegience is to Islam first, country second.
And to me, that is the real crux of the problem; and something I have been saying for quite a long time.

I blame the muslims for the attacks, not the Europeans.
But, I also blame the politicians and security people, and those who unrealistically think that Islam can sensibly integrate into western society without the realisation that Islam and western ways are diametrically opposed.




mnottertail -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 11:36:06 AM)

Belgium has a strong monarchy over parliament.

There is state subsidized religion.

Our constitutional congress talked about those places in Europe that did this, and wrote it so we dont have to have that crap go on, but we fight nutsuckers every day to keep our right to not have a religious state.

There is your major problem.




Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 11:52:30 AM)

Pull out. Send them home. It is not our battle.
It is not our place.
Just let them kill each other.
They are their own angels or death.

You leave your own country. You want to fight everyone's battles forever , that's okay.
We replace you. bye.





ImperialPath -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 12:04:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Hummmm
Front and center news, yet not one thread dedicated to the Isis terrorist attack today?
How odd

Ironically, Brussels is the home of NATO and the capital of the European Union.

Most of you love to chat, so let's chat.



I'll be concise. It is tragic. It's the EU's business. They better stay on it. We don't have to. So let's not unless they pay us or Belgium sends troops to our southern border to help out.




PeonForHer -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 12:12:05 PM)

quote:


In the months before the Paris attacks, he and the Syrian fighters with whom he linked up were helped by Abdeslam’s family, childhood friends, and other petty criminals to remain concealed. In the months after the attacks, he was helped by what it seems is a massive network of “friendlies” who were willing to shelter, hide, and perhaps even work with him on the next terrorist plot. When Abdeslam was finally apprehended, he was living a few hundred yards from his family’s home—right under the nose of the police.


Where did you read that, Phydeaux?




PeonForHer -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 12:19:36 PM)

quote:

And as you mentioned, I firmly believe that their allegience is to Islam first, country second.
And to me, that is the real crux of the problem; and something I have been saying for quite a long time.


Myself, I would have thought that their first allegiance would be to staying alive and living as free-of-strife as they can. Certainly, the Muslims I've come across have been like that . People tend to be like that in general, I've found. But that comes in third place, as far as you can see, behind nation at second place; religion in first place? Why do you stick so rigidly to this view of yours that it's the religion of Islam that most determines what a Muslim is like?




BamaD -> RE: Brussels, Belgium (3/23/2016 12:20:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I've just got word that my mother is actually close to somebody who got injured (I don't know the injured party personally)

I hope s/he heals quickly and completely.

Amen


She will be (my mother mentioned a name that's dual gender in text, so I had no idea until today about her gender even), she's only got a couple stitches in the shoulder.

Apparently she was outside of the airport with her back facing the windows when they blew out, and got hit with some glass. So nothing serious, aside from the shock.

Glad it wasn't a serious injury.




Phydeaux -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 12:31:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I agree with a lot of your post except for one major thing - where the blame lies.

I don't agree that we in the west ostracize the muslims.
We ask them to integrate. Some do, but many do not.
When in Rome and all that; but many muslims refuse to integrate.
I see it as a self-imposed isolation rather than being ostracized by the west.
And they stick to their own communities because the western way of life is quite alien to theirs.
And as you mentioned, I firmly believe that their allegience is to Islam first, country second.
And to me, that is the real crux of the problem; and something I have been saying for quite a long time.

I blame the muslims for the attacks, not the Europeans.
But, I also blame the politicians and security people, and those who unrealistically think that Islam can sensibly integrate into western society without the realisation that Islam and western ways are diametrically opposed.



freedom - I blame muslims for terrorist attacks. I blame europe for closing their eyes to 30 years of immigration policies that created the current situation.
Much like liberals are attempting to do in the US.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: Brussels, Belgium (3/23/2016 12:35:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Belgium has a strong monarchy over parliament.


Not true, the King doesn't have any actual power. We have a ceremonial monarchy, but the country is rules by a democracy, not the King.

In fact, Belgium is far more democratic than the US, because a bigger wallet cannot buy you an election. There are far more parties to choose from, and the government is forced to take the opposition much more into account than is done in the US, resulting in better public representation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There is state subsidized religion.

not have a religious state.


Not true Belgium is far less of a religious state than the US. While the state does funds certain aspects of religion, it does so indiscriminately. The Belgian government doesn't even keep track of which percentage of the population ascribes to which religious denomination.

Public education is completely secular in Belgium.
The state funds religious education in public schools, in the form of "morality courses" but every religious denomination is covered, as well as (the most popular option) an Atheist/Agnostic course. All of those course fall under "ethics and morals teachings" and are required to hit certain points covering morality, ethics, free thought, and critical thinking. All courses cover the major aspects of the other religions.

Politicians are actively prohibited from bringing religion into State issues (they're not even allowed to make references such as "under God" or "God bless Belgium" in speeches or in their public capacity).
And public servants of any kind are prohibited from wearing religious symbols while on active duty. They are not even allowed to attend religious services in their official capacity (which is why the Prime Minister attends a Royal wedding, he does so as a private person, not as Prime Minister).

The Constitution is completely secular.
Belgium has complete separation of Church and State, and insists on enforces that separation much more strictly than is done in the US.




mnottertail -> RE: Brussels Belgian (3/23/2016 1:01:10 PM)

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/171685.pdf

I guess it is true....

Belgium has no Haarlem and is not the Netherlands, and the EU (even though it is still sovereign states each with their own internal laws and customs) was a bit after your time, oder?




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