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RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/24/2016 11:27:49 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Hummmm
Front and center news, yet not one thread dedicated to the Isis terrorist attack today?
How odd

Ironically, Brussels is the home of NATO and the capital of the European Union.


Ok, well... its times like these that make me glad that i dont own a tv so cant watch the news (with all that blood & gore in full color, the goriest repeating, repeating, repeating for days).. its sorta strange tho, cuz without that, I dont get so invested and focused on terrorism constantly..

but, I did read this article the other day and I found it interesting.. one person's experience and what he learned about history leading to this.. it possibly answers the questions "how" and "why".. One thing strikes me- Isnt the unemployment rate for those (Arab/muslim) people about the same as the unemployment rate for black people in the US?

"How Belgium Turned Brussels Into an ISIS Powder Keg
About a dozen years ago, I stepped into a Brussels taxi and gave the driver a note with an address on it. He took it silently, set the meter and drove off through the city’s bustling, high-end hotel district. The gleaming steel and glass storefronts for Gucci, Tiffany and Dior soon gave way to grittier streets.

I was on a mission to find and photograph a house where a friend’s father, a B-17 pilot, had been hidden by the anti-Nazi underground during World War II. A riveting book about his daring escape from Brussels through France, The Freedom Line, suggested that the neighborhood where he was hidden was populated back then by middle-class burghers living in neat rows of pastel-colored brick townhouses.

“Why are you going there?” my driver asked, his North African, Arab features—dark eyes and wiry black hair—framed by the rear view mirror.

I told him my story.

“It’s very different now,” I recall him saying. “It’s all Arab.” And then, unprompted, he delivered a bitter lecture on the history of Arabs in Belgium, how they were imported from North Africa in the 1950s and 1960s as cheap labor to work in the factories. Most of those businesses had moved on, he said, leaving the immigrants unemployed with no real future for decades. In January, youth unemployment sat at nearly 23 percent, according to official estimates. “Although there are no statistics for Muslim employment levels,” the Euro-Islam website says, citing the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, “the foreign-born have unemployment rates more than twice that of indigenous Belgians.”

The street I was looking for in 2004 abuts the Schaerbeek neighborhood, where on Tuesday Belgian police were desperately searching for perpetrators of the spectacular attacks hours earlier on the Brussels airport and a metro station. The Islamic State group, known as ISIS, claimed responsibility for the attacks, which killed at least 31 people and wounded more than 80. The group has called for Muslims in the West to rise up and carry out attacks on their own.

Authorities have said their hunt for extremists since last November’s attacks in Paris have been hindered by a passive acquiescence on the part of Muslim immigrants to the presence of anti-Western militants in their midst.

(On Tuesday, an umbrella group of Belgian Muslims condemned the attacks, saying they “complicate the efforts of society...and the entire Muslim community in favor of a harmonious coexistence.” Previously, the group had been “criticized...for not condemning the violence of the group that calls itself the Islamic State," according to the Religion News Service.)

Matthew Henman, the managing editor of IHS Jane's Terrorism and Insurgency Center, says ISIS laid out its strategy to exploit European Arabs’ alienation last year in its online magazine, Dabiq. Its idea, Henman tells Newsweek, is “to divide the world into those who are with the group and those who are against it.” ISIS, he added, “aims to make elements within this marginalized population more susceptible to their narrative and then to radicalization and recruitment.”

Belgium’s recruiting pool is deep. Its Muslim population sits at 640,000, according to Belgian Arabist and author Pieter van Ostaeyen. And over 500 “were active in Syria or Iraq,” he wrote on his blog last October.

“This number means that out of Belgium’s Muslim population of about 640,000 individuals, there is roughly one per 1,260 who has been involved in jihad in Syria and Iraq,” Ostaeyen added. “At this point, Belgium is, per capita, by far the European nation contributing the most to the foreign element in the Syrian war.”

With factories closing amid cyclical recessions beginning in the 1960s, Belgium tightened its immigration controls, which peaked with a 1974 formal cap to limit economic migration, according to the Migration Policy Institute, a Washington, D.C., think tank. But starting with wars and unrest in North Africa, the Middle East and the Balkans in the 1990s, the pace of political asylum seekers showing up in Belgium quickened. By 2010, Moroccans and Turks alone made up three-quarters of Belgium’s immigrant population. The country’s citizenship and cultural integration policies, meanwhile, were virtually nonexistent, the institute says, “shaped in a laissez-faire way for decades.” The immigrants were basically on their own, albeit subsidized by government benefits.

And it showed. In 2004, as my taxi inched along a narrow street lined with paint-peeling houses and kebab shops, young and old Arab men on the sidewalks, as well as women in black hijabs towing children, looked like they were looking for something better to do. This was only a few miles from the fashionable, orderly downtown and the stately headquarters buildings of the European Union, but a world away. Just coincidentally, I’d come to Brussels to attend a conference on terrorism. The subject then was Al-Qaeda, which seemed far away and on the run, despite its airliner attacks on New York and Washington in 2001.

When we stopped abreast the house at number 160 Rue Marie-Christine in northwest Brussels, we might as well have been in Morocco, Libya or Algeria. The men in the street eyed me warily as I stepped out of the cab, took a few steps and snapped pictures of the now-battered house where my friend’s father had once been hidden from the Nazis.

“It’s not good to linger here,” my driver said. I stepped back into the cab, and we sped off. Indeed, the street seemed like one of those proverbial pools of gasoline waiting for a match. On Tuesday, one of them exploded."


http://www.newsweek.com/isis-brussels-belgium-islamic-state-attacks-dead-airport-terrorists-murdered-439695




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Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/24/2016 3:34:58 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And still, no answers.

Why Belgium why not the US and Israel?

But now we know the king of belgium is kind of but not really elected. Buit he is special anyway. And let me insure that everyone understands, no people died because of how Belgiums king came to power.




Break the weak likes and isolate the strong ones.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/24/2016 9:00:33 PM   
ifmaz


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Joined: 7/22/2015
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FR

Somewhat related: Paris attackers used disposable, 'burner' cell phones, not encryption... so the NY Times invents use of encryption.

quote:

ORIGINAL: previous link
...
According to the police report and interviews with officials, none of the attackers’ emails or other electronic communications have been found, prompting the authorities to conclude that the group used encryption. What kind of encryption remains unknown, and is among the details that Mr. Abdeslam’s capture could help reveal.


Wow, just... wow.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/24/2016 9:03:31 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And still, no answers.

Why Belgium why not the US and Israel?

But now we know the king of belgium is kind of but not really elected. Buit he is special anyway. And let me insure that everyone understands, no people died because of how Belgiums king came to power.




Break the weak likes and isolate the strong ones.

Make links not likes.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 6:57:53 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And still, no answers.

Why Belgium why not the US and Israel?

But now we know the king of belgium is kind of but not really elected. Buit he is special anyway. And let me insure that everyone understands, no people died because of how Belgiums king came to power.




Break the weak likes and isolate the strong ones.

Make links not likes.


Who do you believe to be the strong ones? Who has been hit as hard as amerika?
Israel is hit continually.
Puffing up your chest and parading around your living room does a chairborn ranger make.
How about you get out that big foam rubber finger proclaiming "were no.1 and hold it up while you strut.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Brussels, Belgium - 3/25/2016 9:53:51 AM   
WickedsDesire


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Guns in the US: The statistics behind the violence

Well i hit ok before i was finished so an edit

some of you idiots remind me of a Seinfeld sketch

Seinfeld "The Butter Shave": Netherlands

< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 3/25/2016 9:56:49 AM >

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 5:27:59 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Then THIS snicker snicker



Hey fuckwit....... he still wasnt the mastermind of the attacks. Whats your point, if you even have one.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 5:43:31 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I am not saying I agree with Phy, but I don't see anything racist in that particular statement.
He gave his opinion of what "he feels" is the background of many of the refugees.
Maybe most of them are rocket scientists, maybe they are mainly illiterate, I have no idea.
I don't want waves of refugees coming here right now.
Why can't we say this without being called racist?
I don't think we need hoards of people coming here from any country right now.
We are getting to the point that to have a different opinion these days, seems to be a problem.
Maybe soon we can do away with free speech, or having an opinion.



Laughable you speak of free speech when trying to curtail mine, but still.

Let me make this easy for you and anyone else who doesnt get it. Phydeauxs post is racist, he lumps everyone in the middle east as , or at least the majority given his mealy mouthed dislaimer of "Most"...... No doubt he will rightly say he never said "all" Would you still support him if he made the same claim about Africa ?

So while you and phydeaux are both entitled to an opinion, I am just as entitled to give my opinion of his opinion. Plainly put, if he keeps speaking bollocks, I will happily keep pointing it out.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 5:45:21 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And still, no answers.

Why Belgium why not the US and Israel?

But now we know the king of belgium is kind of but not really elected. Buit he is special anyway. And let me insure that everyone understands, no people died because of how Belgiums king came to power.






Easy answer but I know you already get it....... divide and conquer old bean.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 5:59:35 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

I am not saying I agree with Phy, but I don't see anything racist in that particular statement.
He gave his opinion of what "he feels" is the background of many of the refugees.
Maybe most of them are rocket scientists, maybe they are mainly illiterate, I have no idea.
I don't want waves of refugees coming here right now.
Why can't we say this without being called racist?
I don't think we need hoards of people coming here from any country right now.
We are getting to the point that to have a different opinion these days, seems to be a problem.
Maybe soon we can do away with free speech, or having an opinion.



Laughable you speak of free speech when trying to curtail mine, but still.

Let me make this easy for you and anyone else who doesnt get it. Phydeauxs post is racist, he lumps everyone in the middle east as , or at least the majority given his mealy mouthed dislaimer of "Most"...... No doubt he will rightly say he never said "all" Would you still support him if he made the same claim about Africa ?

So while you and phydeaux are both entitled to an opinion, I am just as entitled to give my opinion of his opinion. Plainly put, if he keeps speaking bollocks, I will happily keep pointing it out.




You're the asshat making it about race. If brits were terrorists, I'd be advocating a temporary ban on brits coming to.
The fact that the EU says more than 5000 jihadis have infiltrated the EU, more than 800 in Belgium alone, more than 100 in Brussels - and the ramifications means that the only sane policy is to quite allowing terrorists into the country.

It has nothing to do with creed, skin color. It just means I don't want americans getting bombed. But you are more than welcome to take all the ISIS jihadi's you want into your country.

Oh and by the way -- exactly how many refugees has your country taken in. 20 wasn't it? Oh right - 20,000 over 5 years. 4000 a year. 12 a day.
Before you criticize the U S - why don't you 'fix' your own damn country.

As for my opinion being outside the mainstream - wrong again.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/december_2015/voters_like_trump_s_proposed_muslim_ban
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 66% of Likely Republican Voters favor a temporary ban on all Muslims entering the United States until the federal government improves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here. Just 24% oppose the plan, with 10% undecided.

Among all voters, 46% favor a temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States, while 40% are opposed. Fourteen percent (14%) are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 6:10:09 PM   
Politesub53


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More bullshit from you dawgie, sidetracking to try and make your racism look less racist.

As for your so called figures, you cant even be arse to quote the actual figure, unsubstantiated as it is, from the head of interpol. He said 3,000 to 5,000, but we can rely on you to pick the higher number. Your figure of only 20 refugees having entered the UK is also bullshit. What you obviously miss in your clamour to be seen as cough ~honest~ cough is the fact the majority of the terrorists involved in Belgium and France are infact, Belgians or French. Try reading, its not fucking difficult, even for you.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35111321

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 6:10:19 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

Saw this the other day, and it kept coming to mind as I read the thread.



_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 6:39:40 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
Ive seen various versions of it on my facebook DC....
Its utterly correct
sadly


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Dont Hate Love

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Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 6:55:13 PM   
kdsub


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Allen I didn't say anything about who was the master mind... just that some came in as refugees...why don't you take the foul mouth down a little... no one listens to you anymore because of it.

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 7:16:16 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

Back during the Troubles, I don't recall ever hearing or reading that we shouldn't let Irish folks into the U.S. because they might be part of the IRA.

Nor in the late seventies did I hear talk about how Vietnamese immigrants--including a family, adopted by my church, who initially bunked with people in my town--could be VC operatives.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 7:28:47 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Allen I didn't say anything about who was the master mind... just that some came in as refugees...why don't you take the foul mouth down a little... no one listens to you anymore because of it.

could you point out how many of the paris bombers were refugees?

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 7:32:09 PM   
kdsub


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I posted the link... I read it... maybe others should.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 7:33:19 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Back during the Troubles, I don't recall ever hearing or reading that we shouldn't let Irish folks into the U.S. because they might be part of the IRA.

Nor in the late seventies did I hear talk about how Vietnamese immigrants--including a family, adopted by my church, who initially bunked with people in my town--could be VC operatives.

HI DC< no, irish americans sent money to arm the terrorists.
And the NEW IRA bombing in NI was ignored and has been ignored since I posted about it in post 5 http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4892939
Never mind back when both NI and england was being attacked by terrorists.
Can you imagine if someone mentioned profiling irish people:) or profiling irish pubs n churches?

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 7:40:49 PM   
kdsub


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And DC you never heard me say middle eastern refugees should not be allowed into the US.

I said...

"thought it wise to be more selective on who we allowed within our borders. We wanted to slow things down and be more careful in screening."

I believe the above may limit, though never completely stop, the infiltration of extremists.

I have said the above in every thread I commented in... I do find it hard to understand how this can be misconstrued into not caring about the suffering and wanting to seal our boarders to all in need.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Brussels Belgian - 3/25/2016 7:41:17 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Never mind back when both NI and england was being attacked by terrorists.
Can you imagine if someone mentioned profiling irish people:) or profiling irish pubs n churches?

I am pretty sure the black and tans did it.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 180
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