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RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 8:07:55 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

aaaaah so there isnt, but "its irrelevant" because it doesnt fit your narrative.
As there is no country that does what you are expecting canada to do, is EXACTLY the point.
I wish disabled people and their families could reside where they wish,
I wish disabled people had amazing care for their entire lives, canadian citizens, native canadians and immigrants.
I wish there were no poverty no drugs, no guns, no violence no hate and no greed,
I wish everyone got well after a disease or trauma, I wish everyone could live in peace
Shit in one hand, wish in the other, see what happens.









it has nothing to do with 'my narrative' and everything to do with you promoting fallacious logic as a bonafide argument.

quote:

Argument from Inertia (also “Stay the Course”). The fallacy that it is necessary to continue on a mistaken course of action even after discovering it is mistaken, because changing course would mean admitting one's decision (or one's leader, or one's faith) was wrong, and all one's effort, expense and sacrifice was for nothing, and that's unthinkable. A variety of the Argument from Consequences, E for Effort, or the Appeal to Tradition.



So by default you admit all these marvy national systems have serious flaws.

MONEY MONEY MONEY

wish in one hand see what you get in the other.

immigration laws arent fallacious logic.
where did I praise the immigration system of any country, you dipshit, of course there is a problem in many aspects of it....

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 8:10:55 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

aaaaah so there isnt, but "its irrelevant" because it doesnt fit your narrative.
As there is no country that does what you are expecting canada to do, is EXACTLY the point.
I wish disabled people and their families could reside where they wish,
I wish disabled people had amazing care for their entire lives, canadian citizens, native canadians and immigrants.
I wish there were no poverty no drugs, no guns, no violence no hate and no greed,
I wish everyone got well after a disease or trauma, I wish everyone could live in peace
Shit in one hand, wish in the other, see what happens.









it has nothing to do with 'my narrative' and everything to do with you promoting fallacious logic as a bonafide argument.

quote:

Argument from Inertia (also “Stay the Course”). The fallacy that it is necessary to continue on a mistaken course of action even after discovering it is mistaken, because changing course would mean admitting one's decision (or one's leader, or one's faith) was wrong, and all one's effort, expense and sacrifice was for nothing, and that's unthinkable. A variety of the Argument from Consequences, E for Effort, or the Appeal to Tradition.



So by default you admit all these marvy national systems have serious flaws.

MONEY MONEY MONEY

wish in one hand see what you get in the other.

immigration laws arent fallacious logic.
where did I praise the immigration system of any country, you dipshit, of course there is a problem in many aspects of it....



comprehend what I am saying, I was talking about the logic of your premise, not immigration law. DUH!

Neither was I talking about your praising anything. Try one more time. Calm down reread my posts and if you still cant sort it out I will explain it.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 8:14:02 AM   
Lucylastic


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explain away, you wont get a response.
you are once again dribbling.
.sayonara shugarshorts

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 8:32:08 AM   
Real0ne


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you are justifying and expect us to accept wrong policy because everyone else is doing it. That reasoning is a fallacy, which means illogical. If you have some other argument maybe you can get more traction.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 8:44:34 AM   
Tkman117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

you are justifying and expect us to accept wrong policy because everyone else is doing it. That reasoning is a fallacy, which means illogical. If you have some other argument maybe you can get more traction.





Which policy are you talking about? Immigration or health care? Because you seem to be confusing one with the other.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 9:16:17 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

you are justifying and expect us to accept wrong policy because everyone else is doing it. That reasoning is a fallacy, which means illogical. If you have some other argument maybe you can get more traction.





Which policy are you talking about? Immigration or health care? Because you seem to be confusing one with the other.



It has nothing to do with 'which' agency because 'which' agency is irrelevant because it is a gubmint agency and people are being rejected after paying taxes based on money which is always the ultimate failure of any and all these systems created under the feudal uk bankrupt crookocratic system of gubmint.






_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 9:23:54 AM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

no they are not better than the alternative.

OK, what is the better alternative?

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 9:34:22 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

you are justifying and expect us to accept wrong policy because everyone else is doing it. That reasoning is a fallacy, which means illogical. If you have some other argument maybe you can get more traction.





Which policy are you talking about? Immigration or health care? Because you seem to be confusing one with the other.



It has nothing to do with 'which' agency because 'which' agency is irrelevant because it is a gubmint agency and people are being rejected after paying taxes based on money which is always the ultimate failure of any and all these systems created under the feudal uk bankrupt crookocratic system of gubmint.







Which system in the world in past or present that has actually existed and flourished has not used money or some placekeeper to track the trades?

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 9:43:39 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Yeh I am making a point, the point is socialized health care is health care for the healthy.
No. Socialised health care is more wildly successful than anything the USA has. And let's face it, in the USA, health care is for the rich.

quote:


ill-advised? Thank you for your ill-advise, but I have no need for it.

far better outcomes? cant you be more amibuous? try for 200%
Can you express a coherent thought? Just this once?

quote:


what medical breakthroughs has canada made again? we have burzinski who the gubblemint restricted his cancer cure to texas and threw him in jail while they stole his patents.
What on earth does medical research have to do with quality of healthcare? Bursinski is a quack who is unable to consistently demonstrate benefits, explain his methodology or subject his research to peer review or rigorous inquiry.

quote:


seems your hc like ours is centered on money, provinding great health care for the healthy, while factoring in awesome profits for gubblemint and its employees.
That's the viewpoint of a fucking idiot. Your link is about immigration law, not health care. That you're attempting in vain to try and make a point about socialised medicine by referring to an immigration case is a clear indication of how weak your argument is.






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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 10:07:42 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

you are justifying and expect us to accept wrong policy because everyone else is doing it. That reasoning is a fallacy, which means illogical. If you have some other argument maybe you can get more traction.




you dont have to accept it, LMAO
but you could try to get the actual facts right at least once.


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 10:16:24 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
What do you mean a "landed citizen?" Does that equate to being a "property owner?" How long does it take to immigrate into Canada?

When you are adjudicated to be allowed into canada, as an immigrant, depending on the level of immigration class ie (worker/sponsored/businessowner)
You sign paperwork assuring certain things(such as being financially sufficient for ten years, to follow all laws etc etc) you are given a permanent resident card, or landed papers. You can then work, play, pay taxes, live, own a house, have kids go to school, get healthcare, but not vote or I believe join the RCMP. At least until you become a full citizen.
I believe there is a financial amount of a few hundred thousand to invest in canada, in the business class of immigration, but I came in on sponsorship via my husband. I cant tell you the rules now as they have changed. It usually takes 3-4 years now, but when I came over it was sposed to take seven, took a bit longer than that.


Interesting. Thanks for the explanation.

quote:

quote:

So, an immigrant has to sign an affidavit or something that his spouse and kids won't be a drain on the local welfare system for 10 years, or else they won't be allowed to immigrate. What happens if that 10-year pledge is broken?

Yes the sponsor signs as a kind of surety, As far as I know .... it can go to a court hearing on repayment of welfare benefits


Shouldn't those rules apply to everyone? The prof would be held liable for repayment of benefits if his son required more than average.

quote:

quote:

Canadian officials are playing the odds with this family. They have no proof that this kid will be a burden on the system any more than the next kid.

It depends on the level of downs the child has.


I understand that, and that's my point. They are playing the odds.

quote:

Believe me, going thru immigration is unpleasant, and a lot of families have health issues and it is not pleasant knowing that your new life may soon be obliterated for bureaucracy and I feel for this man and his family very deeply especially as he happens to be one of the senior profs where my daughter is getting her masters.
My Gran was seriously ill in 95, I went home for a visit to see her before she passed, when I got back to canada, I was held in detention for I think it was 12 hours, (with my hubby and kids in the airport waiting for me not knowing what had happened.) before they could get my paperwork sorted out. that little indiscretion put two years on my immigration status.


I can't imagine anyone's (legal) immigration process is a breeze and/or enjoyable. And that's a damn shame, imo.

quote:

quote:

This is one example of how things can go awry when the taxpayer is the one footing the bill. The video brings up other things that cause more taxpayer money to be spent, too. Why is it okay to bar someone from bringing in his family because one son will likely cost taxpayers more. Do they consider that the average lifespan is only 60 years? Will the government outlaw smoking because it costs taxpayers more for health costs? What about obesity or alcohol? Maybe they'll just add a special health care tax to smokers and the obese.

Please note that most countries have the same restrictions on families with a disability, as I showed.
PS its IS a long time ago that I emigrated, and the rules change often, so my info not linked may be difference. Its based on my experience only.


Come on, Lucy. Don't you see my point there? Your response had nothing to do with it.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 11:19:54 AM   
Lucylastic


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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri



Shouldn't those rules apply to everyone? The prof would be held liable for repayment of benefits if his son required more than average.

They do, many families are deported or denied immigration papers before they get ANYWHERE because of disabilities/mental health issues etc.
Its kinda like pre existing conditions (before obamacare)
Depending on the health problem and the severity of it, It may lead to denial.
If the boy developed a condition after his paperwork had gone thru, as a canadian permanent resident(landed immigrant) , he wouldnt be deported.


It depends on the level of downs the child has.

I understand that, and that's my point. They are playing the odds.
No, its not that cavalier, they go thru the psych and physical, medical history with a fine tooth comb, I would think he went thru some kind of ability and needs testing. But I dont know how they work it out.
Of course I see your point, but as anti obesity /smoking is an abstract "what if" now, both in health law and immigration law, its every countries rule. Yours, mine and my adopted home.

It doesnt make it right, As a bleeding heart liberal it messes with my psyche. But can you imagine if the rules werent there? Every family with a sick family member would be emigrating demanding health care and other "freebies" for their children/parents/siblings permanent existing conditions. I dont see anyone willing to take that up anywhere.
Life is good for me n mine in canada, I dont blame people for wanting to come here. I love it, I doubt I will leave. Its not perfect by any standards, as I said earlier, we still have violence, we still have homeless and poverty issues, we have violent crime, we have lousy politicians, we have greed and hate. We have unfairness in law. We have a lot of issues. But this is not a purely canadian tragedy. Even for a "socialised" country.




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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 11:40:21 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

what medical breakthroughs has canada made again?


1. Development Of Pablum In 1930, three doctors from The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto developed Pablum as a way to prevent and treat rickets in children. The popular infant food went on to improve the health of millions of children around the world, and has led to ideas to help hundreds of millions more. -

2. Discovery Of The T-cell receptor “The progress of science, especially medical science, is driven by the way we understand mechanisms and how they work,” says Dr. Tak Wah Mak, co-discoverer in 1984 of the T-cell receptor and the gene that produces it. Understanding how T-cells work has helped in developing new drugs for fighting infection, autoimmune disorders, cancer and post-transplant rejection.

3. Development Of The Cobalt Bomb In 1951, when the first cancer patients were given quick and successive radiation treatment from cobalt-60 therapy units at the Victoria Hospital in London, Ont., and at the Saskatchewan Cancer Commission in Saskatoon, Canada ushered in the age of modern nuclear medicine.

4. Safer Stem Cells Researcher Andras Nagy has found a way to safely generate stem cells from adult human skin cells, opening the possibility in the future of using a patient’s own cells to reverse damage caused by disease, injury, aging or genetics and cure diseases whose treatment costs the Canadian health-care system billions of dollars a year.


5. Insulin, Treatments And Possible Cures For Diabetes At the turn of the 20th century it was suspected a substance produced by islet cells in the pancreas regulated sugar in the bloodstream, but it had not been successfully extracted. In 1920, Frederick Banting had an idea how to isolate the substance from the pancreas in dogs.Working in a lab at the University of Toronto, he and Charles Best developed the first pancreatic extract. Enlisting the help of J.J.R. MacLeod and J.B. Collip, on a fellowship from the University of Alberta, the team was able to produce and purify insulin for testing on patients in 1922. Banting and MacLeod were awarded the Nobel Prize in 1923

6. SARS - genome and vaccine
Canadian researchers sequence the SARS genome in just 11 weeks, then develop three potential vaccines and a treatment within a matter of months.

7. Fighting Melanoma
After noticing a mole on her ankle in 2000, Annette Cyr waited over a year before making an appointment with a dermatologist. "When I finally went to see her," says the Oakville, Ont., resident, 39 years old at the time, "she said, 'Oh, no, it's nothing.'" A biopsy proved that verdict wrong. The spot was melanoma — the deadliest of skin cancers.

Cyr's story is not unusual. Current methods for diagnosing melanoma can take weeks. But all this is changing. Scientists at the BC Cancer Agency have created a tool that can suss out a mole's malignancy in minutes, right in a GP's office. Dubbed the Verisante Aura (shown below), the device shines a ray of light at a mole or skin lesion and then uses a spectrometer to record an optical signal that can reveal compositional changes in the skin caused by cancer.

"This essentially extends the limits of human vision," says Dr. Harvey Lui, a clinical scientist at the agency, and one of the groundbreaking device's inventors.

Catching melanoma early can save lives. The American Cancer Society estimates a 97 percent, five-year survival rate for those treated for Stage IA melanoma. Those with stage IV? Fifteen to 20 per cent.

"That something so small can become so life threatening is a wake-up call," says Cyr, the founding director of the Melanoma Network of Canada and now cancer-free. "The sooner people get that call, the better."(http://www.verisante.com/products/aura/)

There are more, but..you probably dont think any of them are important...





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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 3:36:03 PM   
thompsonx


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Show off

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 3:41:16 PM   
Tkman117


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Considering how significant it is and how many lives in general it has saved, I would have likely put insulin as #1

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 3:45:38 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Considering how significant it is and how many lives in general it has saved, I would have likely put insulin as #1


Lucy just loves to spank.
This is not the first time some nationalist punkassmotherfucker has posted that drivel and lucy is there to apply the paddle.


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 5:24:27 PM   
Real0ne


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yeh but its fucking hilarious, taking note all those wonderful advancements were made BEFORE national health care! LMAO

The first implementation of nationalized public health care -at the federal level- came about with the Hospital Insurance and Diagnostic Services Act (HIDS), which was passed by the Liberal majority government of Louis St. Laurent in 1957,[5] and was adopted by all provinces by 1961. Lester B. Pearson's government subsequently expanded this policy to universal health care with the Medical Care Act in 1966.[6]

lucys trying to sweep one under the table on me

BUSTED


Burzynskis treament is NON-poinsionous and once treated the cancer is gone history bye bye!

The crookocracy terrorised him and threw him in jail and stole his patents but the genie is out of thebox!

Burzynski: Cancer Is Serious Business | Full Documentary

chemo cant touch this shit bubba! no treatment can compete with this stuff for brain stem treatment zippo nada.


and the crookocracy is making damn sure to hide the cure as long as possible so all your relatives will die in your arms because all they can get is poison from the big pharma MONOPOLY! Yeh, no cure you die they profit!





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/27/2016 5:56:27 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 5:30:45 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

yeh but its fucking hilarious, taking note all those wonderful advancements were made BEFORE national health care! LMAO

What is your point?


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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 5:33:50 PM   
mnottertail


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Dyptheria, Typhoids.

Roosevelt, Teddy


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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: National Health Care *FAIL* - 3/27/2016 5:36:18 PM   
Real0ne


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there is no treatment in the world that works as well as antineoplastons.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 60
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