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[Poll]

Do you trust the police?


I trust a policeperson more.
  32% (11)
I trust a policeperson less.
  35% (12)
I trust a policeperson the same.
  32% (11)


Total Votes : 34
(last vote on : 3/30/2016 2:55:26 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 8:14:36 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

There are a lot of high profile cases of abuse and there are a HELL of a lot of guys and gals who don't make the news which means they are doing their job as expected.

So, if you meet a policeperson, do you trust them more, less or the same as someone else that you just met. I chose "the same" as there are scumbags, awesome human beings and just regular folks in the middle both in and out of uniform.
In Australia, yes. In the USA, no.

The USA has a boatload of problems with law enforcement. Chief amongst them, lack of accountability.

The primary issues are: Disproportionate numbers of African-American deaths, the militarisation of police forces and the use of civil forfeiture by police forces to literally engage in daylight robbery of American citizens.

There are too many different police forces, local corruption is endemic and there's a complete lack of federal oversight.




You cant make that call based upon the individiual, you must base it upon the sovereign, and what you need to accomplish.

Antipolice and antigun is a ridiculous position to have because you remove the ability to prevent harm to yourself and remove the ability to follow up and prosecute harm done against you after the fact without a declaration of war. (yes between 2 people to make it legal under international law to blow them away)

When people enmass no longer need guns to protect against other people enmass, (the state) then it becomes a fair question.

Limiting the need for arms to your next door neighbor is shortsighted and in the real world will not work simply because all you need is a pipe, firecracker, and some gravel presto you have a gun, and if someone wants to use a gun or make one to do harm against another they will.

So you can be against them in theory but not in practice, not in the real world.




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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 8:27:17 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Police were never "designed" to be anything more than an after-the-fact agency. They were never supposed to protect us from crime. That is a just a lie that the politicians and their useful idiots told us in an effort to disarm us.

The police exist to investigate and (hopefully) make an arrest after a crime has been committed. Small comfort to a family whose loved-one was put to grass months before the arrest gets made.

If I were anti-police and anti-gun, it would mean that I am willing to throw myself on the mercy of the criminals. Looking to someone for mercy certainly suggests that you are "pro" that person or entity to whom you look.



Michael

Aside from the trust issue, it would be kind of hard for most people in the USA to argue with this. It's impossible for most folks to expect the police to be able to prevent crimes, or even get somewhere in enough response time to stop a crime in progress. That's when you have to start asking yourself questions like where do you live, how far away is the closest police station, etc.

If you ever have to go after a PPO, an RO, or any sort of equivalent, the first thing that are going to tell you because it's the reality of it, is that the piece of paper is not going to save you. It's only going to help you after the fact.

I don't think we can pin it all on law enforcement. We have to do some of it ourselves. Even if it's just locking doors, windows, or whatever. If something happens such as someone trying to break into your house, you want you to be safe more than anything else.



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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 9:59:03 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

You suffer from the age-old misnomer that "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" syndrome.
The truth is, an enemy of my enemy can still be my enemy too; it doesn't make them my friend by default.

You can still be anti-police an not be 'pro-crime' as a result.


Actually it is more like the enemy of my friend is my enemy.
If you are anti cop and anti gun you are anti the two means of stopping criminals so whether you mean too or not you are helping criminals.
This comes into the haven't thought things out well which you managed to ignore.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 10:48:24 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
You suffer from the age-old misnomer that "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" syndrome.
The truth is, an enemy of my enemy can still be my enemy too; it doesn't make them my friend by default.

You can still be anti-police an not be 'pro-crime' as a result.

Actually it is more like the enemy of my friend is my enemy.
If you are anti cop and anti gun you are anti the two means of stopping criminals so whether you mean too or not you are helping criminals.

Ummmm.... no. Not over here.
Our police are much MUCH more efficient than those in the US and much more pro-active.
I can call the cops when someone is breaking into my house and more often than not, they would be here, on the premises, before the burglar worked out what it is he came to rob us of.
If (really big IF) he managed to get away before the cops arrived, the helicopter would arrive with or before the ground units and be searching with infra-red cameras for the culprit.
You know from my past posts when we had trouble with my step-son, the police are lightning fast compared to the US.
A 1-3 minute response time has been an average for me no matter where I've lived in the UK.

Apparently, the cops are soo slow in the US, you'd be robbed and the burglar long gone by the time the police arrived at your door.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
This comes into the haven't thought things out well which you managed to ignore.

No. This comes from living in a country where the police are efficient, organised, and on the ball most of the time.
Also, from living in a country where your criminal isn't likely to be armed with anything except a foul mouth and certainly not coming 'packed' looking for trouble. This is also why we don't need guns for 'protection'.

Awareness hit the nail on the head in his post#60.
"There are too many different police forces, local corruption is endemic and there's a complete lack of federal oversight."

As we often say over here.... only in America.

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 10:55:15 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Limiting the need for arms to your next door neighbor is shortsighted and in the real world will not work simply because all you need is a pipe, firecracker, and some gravel presto you have a gun, and if someone wants to use a gun or make one to do harm against another they will.

So you can be against them in theory but not in practice, not in the real world.

That would be a fair assessment in the US where there is a gun-rife populace.

It doesn't hold true here and probably most of the EU where guns are not so endemic.
Here, you can actually do that in practice, not just theory.


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 11:05:49 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
You suffer from the age-old misnomer that "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" syndrome.
The truth is, an enemy of my enemy can still be my enemy too; it doesn't make them my friend by default.

You can still be anti-police an not be 'pro-crime' as a result.

Actually it is more like the enemy of my friend is my enemy.
If you are anti cop and anti gun you are anti the two means of stopping criminals so whether you mean too or not you are helping criminals.

Ummmm.... no. Not over here.
Our police are much MUCH more efficient than those in the US and much more pro-active.
I can call the cops when someone is breaking into my house and more often than not, they would be here, on the premises, before the burglar worked out what it is he came to rob us of.
If (really big IF) he managed to get away before the cops arrived, the helicopter would arrive with or before the ground units and be searching with infra-red cameras for the culprit.
You know from my past posts when we had trouble with my step-son, the police are lightning fast compared to the US.
A 1-3 minute response time has been an average for me no matter where I've lived in the UK.

Apparently, the cops are soo slow in the US, you'd be robbed and the burglar long gone by the time the police arrived at your door.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
This comes into the haven't thought things out well which you managed to ignore.

No. This comes from living in a country where the police are efficient, organised, and on the ball most of the time.
Also, from living in a country where your criminal isn't likely to be armed with anything except a foul mouth and certainly not coming 'packed' looking for trouble. This is also why we don't need guns for 'protection'.

Awareness hit the nail on the head in his post#60.
"There are too many different police forces, local corruption is endemic and there's a complete lack of federal oversight."

As we often say over here.... only in America.

911 sends me to the shriff's office 20 miles away, by the time they transfer me to the locals and they get here it is about 15 minutes. Only about 2-3 minutes after the car gets to call, but still too late to do me any good.
And since you have admitted to ignoreing your weapons laws you don't have a leg to stand on.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 11:17:25 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
911 sends me to the shriff's office 20 miles away, by the time they transfer me to the locals and they get here it is about 15 minutes. Only about 2-3 minutes after the car gets to call, but still too late to do me any good.
And since you have admitted to ignoreing your weapons laws you don't have a leg to stand on.

When I call the cops, I'm put thru to the locals within seconds.
And the odd times that I have called them, the ground units are here knocking at the door before I've finished telling them what I called them for.

Just goes to show what a shit police force the US have - even in cities.


Yes, I have a weapon than I keep indoors (not a firearm).
It is perfectly legal unless I use it on someone to cause harm.
I'm not breaking any laws.
And please point to where I've admitted ignoring our weapons laws?

I have admitted that I carried it down the street (just the ONCE, I might add) and I would be in trouble *IF* I used it on someone or threatened them with it.

I wondered how long it would take you to drag up that old chestnut again.
And yet again I have to remind you that I am not breaking any laws with having it; it's not illegal.


< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 3/29/2016 11:18:52 AM >

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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 11:43:57 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
911 sends me to the shriff's office 20 miles away, by the time they transfer me to the locals and they get here it is about 15 minutes. Only about 2-3 minutes after the car gets to call, but still too late to do me any good.
And since you have admitted to ignoreing your weapons laws you don't have a leg to stand on.

When I call the cops, I'm put thru to the locals within seconds.
And the odd times that I have called them, the ground units are here knocking at the door before I've finished telling them what I called them for.

Just goes to show what a shit police force the US have - even in cities.


Yes, I have a weapon than I keep indoors (not a firearm).
It is perfectly legal unless I use it on someone to cause harm.
I'm not breaking any laws.
And please point to where I've admitted ignoring our weapons laws?

I have admitted that I carried it down the street (just the ONCE, I might add) and I would be in trouble *IF* I used it on someone or threatened them with it.

I wondered how long it would take you to drag up that old chestnut again.
And yet again I have to remind you that I am not breaking any laws with having it; it's not illegal.


If it is legal why did you admit it wasn't?????
That would get you arrested here.
It takes more time for me because my cell goes to the sheriff, if I had a landline it would be faster.
Of course if someone is in my home I wouldn't be able to finish the call in time to help me. I guess the British criminal allows a time out to call the cops.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 12:15:42 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
If it is legal why did you admit it wasn't?????
That would get you arrested here.
It takes more time for me because my cell goes to the sheriff, if I had a landline it would be faster.
Of course if someone is in my home I wouldn't be able to finish the call in time to help me. I guess the British criminal allows a time out to call the cops.

It's not legal *IF* I hit someone with it or threaten them with it; it's not illegal to own it.

The Brit criminals do no such thing.
The police here are much better at handling calls and getting the ground (and air) forces to where they are needed.

Example: I make a 999 call - it gets picked up by the national call handling service somewhere in the country many tens or even hundreds of miles from me.
It is usually answered within 2-3 rings (I've never had to wait for a 4th ring yet).
Their one and only question is: "Police, which area do you need??".
I answer with my area (Medway) and I'm instantly put thru to the local station and gets answered in less than 5 seconds.
Their usual question is: "Can you give me your location while we get units assigned to you and sort the problem".
It usually takes less time to action my call that it's taken you to read this post.
And remember, ground units regularly patrol the area so there's a damned good chance there's at least 2 police units within a street or three of where I'm at at any given time 24/7.

Most times I've ever needed to call them, they are knocking at my door as I'm telling the operator my zip code.
One evening, I was reporting a suspicious individual that appeared to be 'scouting' houses from people's back gardens.
I was still explaining to the operator why I was calling when the officers (two of them) were knocking at my door.
As I answered the door and said "hello", two more officers went racing down the side of my house, into my back garden and went leaping over my back fence.
The two officers at my door just basically said that they were chasing the culprit across people's gardens to arrest him and they had him on infra-red camera in the helicopter while the chase was going on.

Bear in mind, I was still on the phone to the call centre and I don't think 2 minutes had passed from making the initial 999 call.
By the time the officers had explained what they were doing, I heard on his radio that they'd collared the suspect, and another individual, with a dog patrol unit on the next street and they were secured in the back of the van.

This is my normal experience of our police force no matter where I've lived in the UK.
As I said.... the US have a real shit police force that is drastically under staffed and inefficient.


And before we derail the thread any more, I still trust our police and most in the EU; but not in most other countries, including the US.


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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 1:13:12 PM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		Well,.. Canadian police I never had a problem with (although I do worry that American-style policing is seeping into Canada).. but American cops are a different breed.. I have seen (with my own eyes) how some cops treat non-whites, that with the continual reports of the "bad apples" shooting unarmed non-whites (which are usually helped by their fellow officers to cover up, etc) have made me trust US cops not at all.. of course the harsh/biased laws and court procedures, etc make things considerably worse.. I know i have an advantage in that I am white and female so cops dont automatically look at me like I'm a suspect or treat me nearly as harshly.. and boy, am i grateful for that!..

I will say that i dislike that US cops dont answer your questions.. when i was in CA i was stopped and asked by a cop if i had any outstanding warrants.. i know a cop isnt gonna ask a question like that unless he already knows the answer, so i was shocked by the question and answered that "no, not that i am aware of" & asked the cop why he asked, if there was some warrant out on me i didnt know about.. the cop wouldnt answer me.. I was stopped another time and the cop said "you know we could take you in" to which i think he was alluding to the same thing but again, US cops wont answer your questions..

Then a few months later when i was getting my CA DL motor vehicles dept told me that i needed to clear up a previous traffic ticket.. what f'n ticket???? well, turns out a ticket from a few years earlier was apparently still "outstanding" even tho years earlier i had paid it and even the ticket/court online account said "0" owing.. Which all made me think since my payment wasnt handled properly that there could have been a warrant out on me.. the cops could have told me (so i could have cleared up the problem earlier) instead of stonewalling me..

I had to call about the ticket and I was told it was a "computer glitch" (computers dont make glitches, those operating the computers make glitches!).. so imo it was a "computer glitch" that could have landed me in jail for who knows how f'n long!!!! What if I had been a black male tho? would the cops have automatically thrown me in jail???
Do i trust US cops? no f'n way..
do I trust the US law/justice system? no f'n way
(also for the same reasons Awarness spoke of)..

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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/29/2016 6:08:58 PM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		awwwww sorry to hear it didnt land you jail!
The going rate is $68,000 and change per minute!



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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/30/2016 10:08:06 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

awwwww sorry to hear it didnt land you jail!
The going rate is $68,000 and change per minute!



I would sue their asses off if they had (once I finally got out, that is)..

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/30/2016 2:50:55 PM   
Real0ne


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Status: offline 		thats what I meant, 68k/minute.

Those that sued in the avery case only went for 36mil for 18 years because of course the state caps how much you can claim when you sue the state, because they dont want you to sue them into the poor house despite its common place for the state to sue its citizens into the poor house and not for false imprisonment either but for the unconscionable crime of not baking a cake for gays!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/30/2016 3:19:41 PM   
TheCabal


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From: Lots of different places
Status: offline 		The police are human. Some make mistakes, others are crooked. Those who are, tend to make the news because society holds them to a higher standard that they failed to meet.

The main problem in the US, though, isn't the police. It's the corrupt (mostly) city governments that run the police. These governments pass ridiculous laws and send the police out to enforce them. Every enforcement action carries a certain risk to it - both to the police and to the arrested, and the police should not be expected to 'fight fair.' Their purpose isn't to get into a fight, it's to enforce the law, and the place to argue is in the courtroom.

But, back to the corrupt city government. Both the Freddie Gray case and the Eric Garner cases are not so much an example of the police running amok, as the city governments they work for running amok.

Eric Garner was arrested for selling loose cigarettes. This is a crime that essentially does not exist outside of New York City. It's a problem in New York City because the local government has raised cigarette taxes to insane levels, thus creating the black market Garner was taking advantage of. The fact that the police had a reason to arrest Garner at all is embarrassing in a free country.

Freddie Gray was arrested for carrying an illegal knife. This is also a crime that generally does not exist outside of metropolitan areas in the US. In rural Pennsylvania, where I live, carrying a knife is just what people do. Again, the fact that the police had a reason to arrest Gray is embarrassing in a free country.

Before I moved to rural Pennsylvania, I lived and worked in and around Baltimore and Washington DC. I had multiple experiences with the city governments, and none of them were good. Not so much because of malice on the part of city employees, but rather incompetence and excessive bureaucracy. Oh... and then there's the $300 parking tickets.

I'm not at all surprised city dwellers hate/fear the police. I am surprised that they continue to elect the same politicians (or at least the same political party) in to power over and over again with the notion that it will somehow improve things. When those politicians enact ordinances and tax codes that make it impossible to make a living and impose excessive burdens on residents, it's the job of the police to enforce those ordinances that are making residents miserable. No wonder so many people detest them. But I think the solution might be to try electing city leaders that value freedom over finding creative ways - like crazy fines - to fund their vanity projects.

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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/30/2016 9:40:57 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

Police were never "designed" to be anything more than an after-the-fact agency. They were never supposed to protect us from crime.


I kinda disagree with this.

1) Police high frequent patrolling of an area does greatly reduce crime. Having a police station in a certain area, significantly reduce crime surrounding that police station as the proximity of their presence is too near.

2) Knowing plain clothes police does frequent patrolling of certain areas, also stops people from attempting crime.

3) The efficiency and effectiveness of the police in tracking down criminals, will make a huge difference in future criminals making a decision whether to attempt it or not.

4) But saying this, the police force MUST be non-corrupted. If I compare two of my neighbouring country. Thailand and Malaysia, both I visit very frequently. Am in Malaysia once or twice a month. And I visit Thailand at the very least, once a year. In Malaysia, you can have a gazillion police officers roaming around, and your car can be parked front infront of a police who is within his front sight and guarding it. But in Malaysia, all police officers accept bribes. So basically, your car will be stolen despite blatant police presence. And the police will pretend ignorance like how it happens, can pretend like, you can make a report and just play innocent. Because, corruption within the police force in Malaysia is so crazily accepted, like it's just norm. Police is just a job, government contribution to the society to get some people employed, but not really doing any serious law enforcement. And people are free to help and supplement their income by bribing them.

Whereas in Thailand, people fear the police. I got cheated once in a ping pong bar, I went to a police officer patrolling, and he came with me and confronted the owner. The owner immediately gave me back all my money and apologised to me, he was frightened. That's the difference. The police was doing his job. I swear if the same shit happens in Malaysia, the police wouldn't do shit about it. The ping pong bar owner could just bribe the police to close an eye and pretend there is nothing he can do about it.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 3/30/2016 9:41:51 PM >

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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/30/2016 9:47:08 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		The original police force as designed by Peel was designed to PREVENT crime happening by their visible presence and then later they instituted a branch that was designed to investigate and solve crimes that had already been committed; The C.I.D.

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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/30/2016 11:17:04 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

ping pong bar

Sorry for the sidetrack, but what on earth is a ping pong bar?

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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/30/2016 11:19:13 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

ping pong bar

Sorry for the sidetrack, but what on earth is a ping pong bar?


Women shoots ping pong out of their vaginas and many other vagina acrobatics.
I basically had a situation where 10 ladies on bikinis came to sit with me, a woman! And left shots of alcohol on my table. I ignored them, but later they got their bouncers and shit and refuse to allow me to leave, unless I paid for all the other ladies drinks as well.

So I paid, then went to the police. The boss demeanor completely changed when I came back with the police. There was no hesitation. He was just apologetic, and gave me back all my money with no resistant.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 3/30/2016 11:21:42 PM >

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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/30/2016 11:21:32 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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Status: offline 		OK, thanks for clearing that up.

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RE: Do you trust the police? - 3/31/2016 11:31:10 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

The original police force as designed by Peel was designed to PREVENT crime happening by their visible presence and then later they instituted a branch that was designed to investigate and solve crimes that had already been committed; The C.I.D.

In a way, both of you are correct.
Police presense is designed to prevent crime IN GENERAL.
However, unless everyone has their own cop, it is unrealistic to think the cops can protect an individual if someone ignores that presence.
This is why I support both the police and the right to bear arms.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
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