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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 6:48:03 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR

Personally, if they just one insurance provider at a countrywide level to provide standard health insurance across the entire country.

One provider having the masses, will definitely greatly reduce health insurances cost, and that would solve that everybody gets health care issue. Get all the insurer's to bid for this country wide deal, and everyone will be fighting tooth and nail for it, and giving the best deals.

Also need to make it compulsory for everybody to be on this.

It's all these insurance at state level, that doesn't work. For insurance to be cheap, they need guaranteed masses to make it cheap.



Wow. Greta75 is advocating for a mandated single-payer system.

Problems with that:

1) How does one make it compulsory? What if people can't afford it?
2) Your point about economy-of-scale could be true for the payer side. Is this a PRIVATE payer? What is to stop them from using their monopoly to drive up premiums? Is this a Government payer? How do you control costs? It doesn't do anything for the provider side. Hospitals continue to charge what they want ($80/pill for aspirin). Facility fees are now around $600/hr (in the ED)

As John Kasich rightly points out with the ACA, it doesn't control costs.


You got picked for the reply and quote, mainly because you are making sense here. While Kasich (I am an Ohioan) is no good at attracting industry, at least he appears to have some common sense. This of course will keep him out of the Presidency because of how the political process works. They need fucking idiots in there who will what they're told. People with common sense won't. I haven't heard him saying that legitimate rape won't get her pregnant, I haven't heard him saying alot of the stupid fucking shit the republican party spews about shit they know nothing of. But being the governor of a state that is in the bottom five in economy is not a good requisite for running the whole country.

At any rate, people vote against, not for, and they know not what they are against. They like Obamacare but hate Romneycare, well those are almost exactly the same thing. And Romney broke the people of that state doing it. Sure, state income taxes were not raised, but everything else was.

There are alot of people in Massachusetts who can no longer afford to run a business or even drive a fucking car because of this bullshit. Ever been through a car inspection there ? If you are out of windshield wiper fluid you must WALK somewhere and buy some, or you don't get your fucking $250 license plates.

These states getting hurting for money (because they stole it all) are really getting out of hand. I heard that in Indiana you must pay the sales tax on the estimated value of your car every year to get plates.

Romney did not even carry his home state. Outside looking in he looked good, but the people who really knew did not vote for him for President. Also, he resigned ? He would have never fucking got reelected anyway and he knew it.

What you got here is Romneycare. It forces you to contribute to the medical industry price gouging for which they should be hung. Other countries can have socialised medicine because they are not all thieves. Look at the scandals about double and triple billing with medicare, remember that ?

You want to be anesthetised and go under the knife, with a THIEF working the knife ? That is why me and my ilk do not go to doctors. I literally have to be knocking on hell's door to go see a doctor. Fukum.

But then they have a valid point. they DID spend a quarter million fucking dollars on their education. And why is that ?

I want Russian doctor. they escape country, was educated for free and come here, be my Wife and make five times the money. Literally. the median, average and all other metrics have US doctors making more that just about any in the world.

As far as I am concerned, I would rather go to a vet. Almost everything is $200. All the ectomies and all that shit, but that would only be if I am sick. Now, I need my eyesight fixed which will cost about a quarter million.

Why does it cost so much ?

See that was the original problem. We used to be able to walk from Grampa's house to the doctor without crossing a major street. The charge was $20. Not copay, the whole charge.

Things changed when the big money came around.

Fukum.

T^T

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 6:49:17 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
In your country, medicine isn't a pure profit center. Here it is. Hospitals, and providers feel entitled to milk every $$$ they can out of it. Providers here make the 3rd highest in the world. Hospitals charge what they do, because they can. They call it "cost shifting", but it is gouging.

I know the healthcare space very well, as I have worked for a payer and several hospitals.

That's really something the government needs to do something about, either by working on a site to do comparision of prices among all the hospitals or whatever, so people can reference and go for the most well priced one, and including recommended pricing. I think the soft way going about this is doing it gently.

Like our government has website for people to compare insurance premiums across all providers with similar benefits, for not just health, but life and things like that. The providers know they will become most popular IF they are ranked the cheapest in those government website, so they lower their price.


And regardless what, same insurer for entire country, compared to state by state, will definitely still be much cheaper than doing it state to state, like obama care is doing now. You get providers going bankrupt and all these nonsense.

Insurance with health care needs serious masses to sustain and keep prices low.



Congratulations, you just articulated one of the MANY ways the Republicans made the ACA much worse.

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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 6:54:42 PM   
MasterBrentC


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Jaguar, Republicans haven't done a damn thing to Obamacare. I defy you to name just one.

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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 6:56:39 PM   
Tkman117


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They invented it.

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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 6:57:56 PM   
MasterBrentC


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Thompsonx...... The insurance companies could only sell within the state they were in. I live in Texas and I am prohibited by law to go outside the state of Texas for insurance. It's been that way my entire lifetime.

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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 6:58:34 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


See that was the original problem. We used to be able to walk from Grampa's house to the doctor without crossing a major street. The charge was $20. Not copay, the whole charge.

Not in your lifetime has that been true.
Your profile says you are 51.



(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 6:59:31 PM   
MasterBrentC


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I need to change it then. I'm now 54.

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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:00:55 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Thompsonx...... The insurance companies could only sell within the state they were in. I live in Texas and I am prohibited by law to go outside the state of Texas for insurance. It's been that way my entire lifetime.

Bluecross blue shield says they are nationwide.

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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:02:09 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

I need to change it then. I'm now 54.


In your lifetime you had $20 office visit to an md.?

(in reply to MasterBrentC)
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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:03:33 PM   
MasterBrentC


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But they could only sell within the state lines. Different states have different laws on rates and such. Tear down the barriers and let the people buy from who and where they want. Free market works every time it's tried.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:04:47 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Jaguar, Republicans haven't done a damn thing to Obamacare. I defy you to name just one.


Well, first of all, it was a Republican idea in the first place. Chuck Grassley was jumping up and down about it back in the day.
Secondly, they blocked a public option (Baucus, and Grassley)
Thirdly, even though claim they are for competition across state lines. Their insurance lobby donors convinced them to block that too.

Now Cruz is supporting the idea. It would never happen in a Cruz administration.

So there is 3

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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:06:19 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Thompsonx...... The insurance companies could only sell within the state they were in. I live in Texas and I am prohibited by law to go outside the state of Texas for insurance. It's been that way my entire lifetime.

Bluecross blue shield says they are nationwide.



Bluecross IS nationwide. Unfortunately, their plans aren't.

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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:07:55 PM   
dcnovice


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FR

It would be interesting to know how the insurance market worked in pre-ACA California. Given its large population and area, it could be a handy microcosm.

Did competition drive down premiums? What portion of the populace had coverage?

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 3/28/2016 7:09:49 PM >


_____________________________

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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:07:59 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

But they could only sell within the state lines. Different states have different laws on rates and such. Tear down the barriers and let the people buy from who and where they want. Free market works every time it's tried.

I do not understand what you are saying. If blue cross is nationwide that means they sell in all 50 states.

(in reply to MasterBrentC)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:09:56 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Bluecross IS nationwide. Unfortunately, their plans aren't.

You will have to explane that to me. I am not being obtuse but I have never had medical insurance.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:11:05 PM   
Termyn8or


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


See that was the original problem. We used to be able to walk from Grampa's house to the doctor without crossing a major street. The charge was $20. Not copay, the whole charge.

Not in your lifetime has that been true.
Your profile says you are 51.





Brookpark Ohio, off of Birchcroft Avenue to the west of Smith Road. I forgot the doc's name though, but one of the kids in the neighborhood went there to get a cast on a broken arm. I never actually used his services, but been in his office or whatever, and it was a doctor's office.

This was in the 1960s.

Unless you want to blatantly call me a liar, and making shit up, you are welcome to use a time machine, or do a fucking Vulcan mind meld.

Other than that, you are welcome to try to prove a negative. We also had this optometrist who made lenses with those hairs for bombers in WW2. That guy was old as dirt. Forgot his name too, but his office was on Clark Avenue.

T^T

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:13:28 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Bluecross IS nationwide. Unfortunately, their plans aren't.

You will have to explane that to me. I am not being obtuse but I have never had medical insurance.



BlueCross is an overall brand and is a loose confederacy of privately owned and operated companies across the country. (Kind of like VISA. All VISA card have the VISA logo, but are not owned by VISA).

They share some rules and standards, but that's about it. Each state's BC/BS is a distinct entity with distinct plans.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:16:51 PM   
Termyn8or


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Oh, I am 55. I joined this place back then though. I was born in 1960. Maybe I should update it. But that span does not make a difference. See, this was one of those communities where all the Grandparents lived. People knew each other. We rode the bikes into other people's yards, and they talked to us, not threw us out.

Alot of people do not understand what a community like that is like. You are in another family's backyard, they call their kid and say "Hey someone is out here to see you" instead of the fucking cops.

It was a nice, and unique in some ways at the time, environment. Cool as hell actually.

T^T

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 7:22:38 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Brookpark Ohio, off of Birchcroft Avenue to the west of Smith Road. I forgot the doc's name though, but one of the kids in the neighborhood went there to get a cast on a broken arm. I never actually used his services, but been in his office or whatever, and it was a doctor's office.

This was in the 1960s.

Unless you want to blatantly call me a liar, and making shit up,

Yeah I will go with that. I was 21 when you were still wearing short pants. I am quite aware of what medical cost were, and a doctors visit was somewhat more than $20.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/28/2016 8:21:11 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: AGuyNamedDave

And just exactly what did the GOP have to offer in terms of anything resembling a change to the screwed-up healthcare system in the US?

The ACA is far from great (barely even "good") but until Congress can get its head out of its collective ass and create some thing better we're pretty much stuck with it.

Whining about it at this point is like a 5yo throwing a tantrum.






they were smart enough not to make it worse. socialized health cant work in a crookocratic nation, at least not very well.


Ah, no it virtually every regard.. they made it worse.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 40
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