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RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 7:30:52 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

The A.C.A. is unconstitutional and that is very easy to prove. Personally, I refuse to participate.



good for you, but you aint a constitutionalist.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MasterBrentC)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 7:38:10 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

How about just getting the fucking government OUT of the health care business as a plan?

Because you tried that and it didn't work.


government involvement/interference aside for a moment---exactly what wasn't working that obamacare actually fixed?

you think obamacare was actually about better health outcomes for people as opposed to a movement towards more government control in the lives of people? why should people who value freedom accept that?

and as importantly, specifically where in the foundational documents of the USA does it give the government the right to force people to buy a product and then fine them if they don't comply?




It was about getting people insurance so they could get healthcare.

As for the other, trivial. the same place that forces you to obey traffic laws, and fine you if you dont comply. And further, to complicate matters, the republicans made individual income taxes constitutional, where from the founding no such thing was. So, its not a fine, its a tax, no different than if you arent married, you pay a higher tax. So since there are no republicans nowadays, perhaps asking the nutsuckers why they made the ACA constitutional is the thing to do.

This endeth the constitution for kindergarteners.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/31/2016 7:42:08 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 7:56:15 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

How about just getting the fucking government OUT of the health care business as a plan?

Because you tried that and it didn't work.


government involvement/interference aside for a moment---exactly what wasn't working that obamacare actually fixed?

you think obamacare was actually about better health outcomes for people as opposed to a movement towards more government control in the lives of people? why should people who value freedom accept that?

and as importantly, specifically where in the foundational documents of the USA does it give the government the right to force people to buy a product and then fine them if they don't comply?



if anyone wants to read about how govt involvement mucked up healthcare long before obamacare, here's a good read:

(which means the argument of that "the free markets been tried and found lacking" is bunk.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/07/how-government-interference-got-started.html

quote:

And so, our very real medical crisis has been the product of massive government intervention, state and federal, throughout the century; in particular, an artificial boosting of demand coupled with an artificial restriction of supply. The result has been accelerating high prices and deterioration of patient care.


and for tons more:

https://mises.org/blog/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 3/31/2016 8:09:27 AM >

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 8:06:49 AM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini
If you skip the pages of cut and paste articles, and insults, you can save a lot of time.


the "cut and paste articles" give substance to the opinions, inform and support the opinions, help the readers to understand where the poster is coming from, expose others generally to material they might not otherwise have seen, are sometimes answers to earlier questions raised in the thread and raise further questions in the process.



There is nothing wrong with cut and pasting articles or posting links.
I do it myself.
The thing is I enjoy conversation, hearing thoughts, OPINIONS and ideas.
I don't come here to read endless articles, and literally full books worth of links.
Surely, to each their own.
I don't even read threads that start with only cut and paste, read this messages.
If you can't be bothered to write some sentences informing me why I NEED to read something,
I don't.

I am talking about people who feel they can only make points by posting thousands of links and cut and
paste articles---
ALL the time.
No ORIGINAL thinking bores me to tears.

I often have limited time when I pop on, and I am often enjoying my ADHD life,I tend to skip many posters
and I enjoy reading short links/ articles and OPINIONS.

Free country, free collarchat
Read WHO and WHAT you want on here, type to WHOM you want to type to on here.
Ignore those that irritate you, don't respond to those who often offend you, and keep it moving
and enjoy your life.
We can't control those who post here, but we can control what we read.
There are many that appear not to work or have a lot of time to bait, rant, argue, seem to live to be
internet trolls, name call and pick fights with those with opposing views - All the Time!!!!!!!

I have been on this website since 2004 and I love the hell out of it, cause I choose
what I allow into my life.
Peace


< Message edited by Marini -- 3/31/2016 8:43:18 AM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 8:13:43 AM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline 		For a god fearing race, or a race who has the ear of Gawd, there is something wrong with almost all of you.

free healthcare for all...fin There is no counter argument against that ever, save from savages and the moderately to completely deranged of mind

the irony of it all and that time when I saw mother Theresa visit your lands and being embraced with abject malarkey still fills me with mirth to this very day.

and free cake for me

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 8:19:03 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
]ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

Thompsonx...... The insurance companies could only sell within the state they were in. I live in Texas and I am prohibited by law to go outside the state of Texas for insurance. It's been that way my entire lifetime.


You are more than a little unclear here. Do you want the federal government to overule the state's right to regulate commerce within their own boarders? Who created this law in texas. If it was not the republicrats do they not have the power to undo it now?

(in reply to MasterBrentC)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 8:19:18 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

How about just getting the fucking government OUT of the health care business as a plan?

Because you tried that and it didn't work.


government involvement/interference aside for a moment---exactly what wasn't working that obamacare actually fixed?

you think obamacare was actually about better health outcomes for people as opposed to a movement towards more government control in the lives of people? why should people who value freedom accept that?

and as importantly, specifically where in the foundational documents of the USA does it give the government the right to force people to buy a product and then fine them if they don't comply?



if anyone wants to read about how govt involvement mucked up healthcare long before obamacare, here's a good read:

(which means the argument of that "the free markets been tried and found lacking" is bunk.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/07/how-government-interference-got-started.html

quote:

And so, our very real medical crisis has been the product of massive government intervention, state and federal, throughout the century; in particular, an artificial boosting of demand coupled with an artificial restriction of supply. The result has been accelerating high prices and deterioration of patient care.


and for tons more:

https://mises.org/blog/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive

There never has been; isn't; and never will be free-markets on the face of this planet. So that utopia is done with. The rest of the communism there is bunk.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 8:23:26 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: bounty44


"And so, our very real medical crisis has been the product of massive government intervention, state and federal, throughout the century; in particular, an artificial boosting of demand coupled with an artificial restriction of supply. The result has been accelerating high prices and deterioration of patient care."

It is the ama who restricts the number of doctors and not the government.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 9:05:14 AM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline 		Sips his eve sipping Chardonnay

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 9:16:52 AM   
BondageersT


Posts: 196
Joined: 3/8/2016
Status: offline 		get a glass ready for moi, just started my sauv blanc. xx

(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 2:09:12 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

For a god fearing race, or a race who has the ear of Gawd, there is something wrong with almost all of you.

free healthcare for all...fin There is no counter argument against that ever, save from savages and the moderately to completely deranged of mind

the irony of it all and that time when I saw mother Theresa visit your lands and being embraced with abject malarkey still fills me with mirth to this very day.

and free cake for me


Of course there is a counter argument.

"Free" healthcare is a remarkably poor method of delivering healthcare - just like socialism, always and everywhere, is a remarkably poor method of delivering any good or service. Let alone the evil of the tyranny of large states that you on the left protest against time and time again, but with little understanding of cause.

Any govt big enough to "give" you healthcare is big enough to "give" you the Patriot act. Any govt big enough to "give" you mandate marshland renewal is big enough to mandate the death of orchards in California, or lead in the water of Flint. Any govt big enough to control 22% of the economy is big enough to spend 35%. Any govt big enough to give you fixed cost housing is big enough to protect democratic slumlords (a la Jarret) and cronies (Charlie Rangel).

So certainly, I am opposed to the unnecessary deaths of Americans. Just as I am opposed to the Patriot act, and wasting hundreds of billions of dollars for programs that don't deliver services effectively.


(in reply to WickedsDesire)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 3:40:51 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It cannot be proven thru credible citation of fact that it is 'poor'.

The government seems to be big enough to give us the patriot act, but not healthcare.

I would expect that you are dead set against our military, who do not effectively deliver anything, and are a large open sewer into which money is thrown, for no results.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 4:13:46 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

So true. It is both disappointing and boring. There have been some interesting topics raised lately, but they all just get drowned in the rants of the same bunch of people trading the same tired insults, frothing away in the false left/right dichotomy. I understand that we are dealing with mostly Americans, so it is to be expected that the level of any political discourse of many will be pretty low, but one can always hope, eh? Surely there must be some who think beyond the confines of the talking points and the media spin.


No....silly girl.

No.

(No).

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 4:33:07 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline
quote:

No....silly girl.

No, I am not a silly girl, I am that dizzy chick.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to AtUrCervix)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 6:47:03 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
I understand that we are dealing with mostly Americans, so it is to be expected that the level of any political discourse of many will be pretty low, but one can always hope, eh? Surely there must be some who think beyond the confines of the talking points and the media spin.

Oh, I think you might find one or two if you dig deep enough in our cesspool, though I would hate for you to abase yourself in such a manner. But thanks for the vote of confidence. Its mighty humbling.

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 7:00:00 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

exactly what wasn't working that obamacare actually fixed?

From a very personal perspective, I'm grateful that the ACA means that if I lost my job, I'd still have a prayer of getting health insurance despite "preexisting conditions."

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 7:10:51 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		FR

Int J Health Care Finance Econ. 2014 Sep;14(3):179-205. doi: 10.1007/s10754-014-9151-z. Epub 2014 Jul 15.

Socialized medicine and mortality.

Peltzman S.
Booth School of Business, University of Chicago

Abstract
Over the last century life expectancy has increased substantially and so has the share of health care expenditures financed by governments. In cross-country comparisons, the US, which has the lowest government health expenditure share, often has the poorest health outcomes. Is there a plausible connection between health outcomes and government financing of health care? This paper addresses this question with panel data from 20 developed countries from 1950 to 2010. I review the history of government involvement in health care financing over this period. Then I use panel regression methods to examine whether a variety of mortality based outcome measures are correlated with the extent of government involvement. The answers are robustly negative.

Emphasis mine. Unfortunately, the full text requires a purchase.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25024038

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/sam.peltzman/research/index.html

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 7:15:14 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick
I understand that we are dealing with mostly Americans, so it is to be expected that the level of any political discourse of many will be pretty low, but one can always hope, eh? Surely there must be some who think beyond the confines of the talking points and the media spin.

Oh, I think you might find one or two if you dig deep enough in our cesspool, though I would hate for you to abase yourself in such a manner. But thanks for the vote of confidence. Its mighty humbling.

..........


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 8:29:35 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

No, I am not a silly girl, I am that dizzy chick.


A distinction without a difference.

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Lies your president told you about Obamacare - 3/31/2016 8:31:19 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

"Free" healthcare is a remarkably poor method of delivering healthcare

It seems to work for the military.



- just like socialism, always and everywhere, is a remarkably poor method of delivering any good or service.

It seems to work in sweden.



(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 100
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