RE: Why Finland has the best schools.

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Why Finland has the best schools.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Why Finland has the best schools.

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 [4]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Why Finland has the best schools. - 4/7/2016 11:20:11 PM

Edwurde

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/27/2016
Status: offline

How many eco-friendly blenders has Noam Chomsky designed or made?

You have to have good earth-friendly (if possible) blenders to put all that organic produce into.

How many organic farmers do you know personally, who are about to take over their father's land, that the USDA has insisted use Monsanto poison and bio-what-the-fuck for thirty years, and now trying to transition to organic? How many of them do you think knows or gives a flying fuck about Chomsky, and how much is Chomsky-fuckwit helping them out, there, other than to tell them how evil they are? any more than he gave any flying fuck about them in the first place, unless they were in Asia or China or thereabouts?

That's the reality.

It's not even "economics," per se, it's just that age old thing of "feeding the family," and I read all that Chomsky crap decades ago, along with much better thought out 'political prose,' even that which drove me, pulling my hair out, to something else.

Did Chomsky tell me anything more about the harm of "first world" domestic subsidies, as resulting disaster to third world farmers than what I got on my own at the uni that he was too stupid to figure out?

Glad you are happy with that, if it suits you. Some of do research beyond class, Some of us move on.

And wo behove anyone trying to make a "political process" or "philosophical dalliance" about planned murders of millions of people.

"Being against" means crap, but if heartfelt, at least means something. But "being against" on political of philosophical grounds is the lowest of the low.

< Message edited by Edwurde -- 4/7/2016 11:56:06 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)

Profile

Post #: 61

RE: Why Finland has the best schools. - 4/8/2016 1:22:10 PM

Edwurde

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/27/2016
Status: offline

It appears that Edwurde was "a bit grumpy" the previous evening. A somewhat incoherent rant resulting. Insomnia problems rise again.

In any case, just because I moved on from something and have no use for it now doesn't negate the fact that I might have benefited from it when first absorbed. So yes, I certainly benefited from reading Chomsky when I did, because as with most things like that, it led me elsewhere, moved me to the next step.

And since we are discussing the uni in particular, Chomsky would certainly be a welcome addition, as a foil, to some of the other crapola in that venue. So now that I think of it, you're right, and I think it might be helpful (as well as amusing) that all "business majors" are required to take a semester of readings from Chomsky, Naomi Klein, etc.

That said, I learned about the cause of the financial meltdown from reading books and blogs from those in the financial business themselves, along with one or two finance folks in academia. One thing I learned from a ton of reading there (none of this mentioned in my uni courses) is that now I don't care about the gender of whoever is president, as long as all appointees to any position having to do with finance are female. It's not being sexist, it's just recognizing that even though females can be as full of BS as males (especially in politics), it depends on the subject. When it comes to financial matters, women are much more 'straight shooters' than men.

We've already had 'A Few Good Women' appointed to these jobs, but both Sheila Bair and Brooksley Born (the latter especially) were run over roughshod by 'more powerful' fuckwits in their respective administrations. Mary Jo White at chair of the SEC is not a good example (had to recuse herself from at least 50 cases already, in just three years) but that's because she's a lawyer, knows fuckall about finance. (Likewise Sheila Bair and Brooksley Born, but at least they had a clue, and didn't make a living protecting banks in court.)

Anything from Janet Tavakoli, Anat R. Admati, et al. (preceded by "financial crisis" in the search box) makes for good reading on that subject.

"Financial crisis" "Noam Chomsky"; not quite as much useful info there. But yes, some bit of background matters too.

< Message edited by Edwurde -- 4/8/2016 2:10:54 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)

Profile

Post #: 62

RE: Why Finland has the best schools. - 4/8/2016 2:03:56 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

To my knowledge of all of Chomsky, he has seemed to concentrate on linguistics and since...sociology. But I do agree with him in that in the practice of the US brand of capitalism, when you are born, you are either to produce a profit for yourself or for somebody else including a so-called non profit's profit, or you can just go to jail or die. (Sparta was similar in that men [male infants] were adjudged to be future warriors or left to die as an infant)

The whole difference in the US and the relationship of business/society and their various responsibilities especially vis-a-vis education here, lies on the fact that business and the corporation which garner the vast majority of [its] wealth has a fiduciary responsibility only to it owners and investors and has no fiduciary responsibility to society. In fact in the strictest practical definition if you will, of the relationship between business and society in the US, is that society exists to produce a profit for it, the business community doesn't exist at all...for the benefit of society.

The obvious resulting dogma so reinforced by more than 100 years of propaganda, is that the only resort to or amelioration of its effect, is for govt. to act in the interest of society and that becomes is derided as socialism in an obviously useful bastardization of the word. So if business creates jobs, helps provide for society in any way, great. If it does not...that's ok to.

We (the people/govt.) don't want to pressure the profitability of business weighing it down with any ridiculous responsibilities toward society at large. Now just imagine and I seek out the birth of this concept, that to reduce the burdens on business, i.e., regulations/taxes is to somehow magically benefit society. How, why I ask you ? That never has before and kinkroids...it never will. Every single benefit bestowed upon the business community no matter the form...accrues to the benefit of the owners and investors...only unless it is a direct tax incentive (a form of capitalist extortion) and if, IF the beneficiaries don't game the system in rather copious attempts to realize the benefits without the burdens.

Germany as the example de jour, created laws over 100 years ago and ever since, that forced upon the collective society and the economy through the business community, to provide a certain minimum benefit to society. Part of that regime is an educational system that in the war of losers and winners...produces far more winners and a whole lot less losers. I am thinking and will now give a short look at Finland.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Edwurde)

Profile

Post #: 63

RE: Why Finland has the best schools. - 4/8/2016 2:34:37 PM

Edwurde

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/27/2016
Status: offline

It is instructive that most of the (US) articles I've read on education in Finland focus on the requirement of a Masters degree for teachers of elementary school (gotta promote that tuition loan debt!), but only a few blurbs about the rest of it (of the "Oh! That is SO interesting!" variety). And, of course, not much delving into what Finlanders are like generally, or what differences exist between what is taught in Finland for that degree compared to what is taught for that same object in the US or UK. I can well assure you, what is taught in US universities for education degrees, whether Bachelors, Masters, or Doctoral, is pure crap.

THAT is the big difference.

Primary purpose (in the US) is to promote 'team work,' working off-clock, 'working together,' 'what do YOU think?' 'critical thinking,' etc., which is, after all said and done, promoting philosophical wanking for ultimate purpose of psychological quiescence and obsequience to 'the larger structure.' See how much that "what do YOU think?" and "critical thinking" (i.e., writing that shies away fact [boring], just how good you are at twisting things) crap gets you in the real world. Unless you are really good at all that, and are really aggressive, whereupon promotions are earned by that talent, and that alone, above all else. (Too bad about the rest of you.)

Until very recently (though even still, an exception if otherwise), a CEO in a German manufacturing company had a degree in engineering, chemistry, biology, physics, whatever. In the US, "business management" covers all. In the US, just get an MBA from Harvard or Wharton, there you go. No need to have a clue how your workers (at highest or lowest level) actually do what they do, just know how to "manage" them.

< Message edited by Edwurde -- 4/8/2016 3:32:36 PM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Profile

Post #: 64

RE: Why Finland has the best schools. - 4/8/2016 3:29:02 PM

Edwurde

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/27/2016
Status: offline

~

< Message edited by Edwurde -- 4/8/2016 3:31:29 PM >

(in reply to Edwurde)

Profile

Post #: 65

RE: Why Finland has the best schools. - 4/8/2016 6:45:43 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: tj444
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ummm... that is exactly what they mean by saying "productive".. it means to get a job/work.. for 99% of students that means working for the man.. Harvard's marketing dept makes it sound so altruistic..

Perhaps that is what you mean by productive.

oh come on.. for harvard to say that.. well, you have to be pretty stupid to believe that shite when all harvard pumps out of their schools are hedge fund dudes, wall streeters, banksters and greedy SOB CEOs that give themselves multimillion dollar salaries, benefits, perks, etc.. Harvard has certainly produced very "productive" 1%ers that are driving your country into the f'n ground... but dont let me or reality stop you from believing that crap/advert...

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to thompsonx)

Profile

Post #: 66

RE: Why Finland has the best schools. - 4/9/2016 2:04:55 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwurde

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwurde
... idiotic US companies insist on requiring a Bachelors degree to even fill out an application, to pay you $12 an hour to start (or in the SE, 9-10 to start).

Educational requirements are tools for culling the herd of applicants. If a company likes your resume, they'll invite you for an interview, even if you don't have the "required" degree. Plus, if they don't like you for some reason that has anti-discrimination laws about, ifyou don't have a degree, they have that requirement they can use to not hire you. Additionally, many places who require a degree don't necessarily care that the degree isn't in the area of the job interviewed for. Obviously, the more technical the job, the more important it is that the degree is in the same field.
Having a degree demonstrates a certain amount of discipline, motivation, determination, and "stick-to-it-iveness."

Well, there you have it. You have laid out the situation perfectly. German companies are only interested in your skill set (I am over-simplifying here, but to the point ...). Because of their educational system, there is a lot more employers can assume on that point than is the case in the US.

Actually, my example shows that US companies will factor your skills into their decision to hire you or not, even if you don't meet whatever published educational requirements. In the US, an educational requirement can be used to "legally" discriminate, but there's probably no employer in Germany that discriminates against anyone.

quote:

Not to say that employers in the US aren't persnickety about this or another particular experience with whatever C machine or C program skills, but the deutsche (German) Edu system doesn't toss you out with a "HS Education" or a "College Education," and so easily toss off the life of the nation like that. (What's taught in econ classes in the US about 'human capital', they conveniently overlook what better examples [numerous as they are] existing elsewhere, just like healthcare).
There (Germany, and others), it's about how much you know what you're doing, at whatever level, with educational and apprentice certificates and recommendations all built in, as a matter of course (mostly). In the US, it's much more about how well you jump through hoops, at the snap of a finger.

No. What I said was that the more technical a job is, the more likely the employer is going to require a degree be in that same field. If you're responding to the "stick-to-it-iveness" part, that's not about jumping through hoops necessarily. If you have a person that is amply capable of fulfilling the job requirements, but is a slacker or super-procrastinator, you might pass that person for one that might not be quite as adept at the technical side of the job, but has a better work ethic.

quote:

Just as you explained. As you so coherently conveyed, the US seemingly takes it as a point of pride that our educational system is constructed in such way as to stomp on carpenters, while rewarding those who put whatever better brains they were born with to purpose of financial constructs to steal homes and jobs from 10 million people.

Yeah, not really. Skilled tradesmen are well-paid here. Did you pay any attention to the Occupy Wall Street movement in the US? Did you NOT see all the recent college grads or current students pissing and moaning about there not being a job waiting for the educated "brains they were born with." They blamed Wall Street for it, when it is a simple case of supply and demand. If there are a lot of CPA's that meet the job requirements graduating college, either a lower number of them are going to be hired at a, relatively, higher salary, or a greater number are going to be hired at a, relatively, much lower salary. A quality welder, carpenter, etc., is well worth every penny spent, and there are an awful lot of pennies that get spent on those people.

quote:

Again, Germany exports essentially as much does the US (*total*, not net), with 27% of the population.

So?

quote:

Figure out which system or, more importantly, the mindset behind it, works better.

You want me to compare to different systems or mindsets, with two different cultures? Really? That's ridiculous.

_____________________________

What I support: