RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi?

RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 7:14:47 AM)
@ifmaz quote: The Westboro Baptist Church members pay taxes. If the Westboro Baptist Church was to enter my hypothetical store would I not be able to refuse them as they disgust me, and could I not cite my religious convictions of everyone being equal when I did so? Or would I instead be forced to provide them services? Freedom includes the side-effect of "tolerating" things you don't necessarily agree with. Let the free market decide what it will tolerate; if enough people discover the views of companies and opt to not do business with them, those businesses will eventually fold. Instead, what you are demanding is government coercion. It is deliciously ironic and amusing that you claim it is your religious conviction that everyone is equal but certain classes of people disgust you. Is disgust an exercise of religion? I think not. Yes, you are required (not forced) to serve them unless they are disrupting your business in some fashion. When you open your door you are bound by the Laws of city, state, and nation. The Civil Rights Act of 1965 is one of those Laws which bind our commerce. Religious freedom granted by our Constitution, that pesky thing again, does not grant us the right to be intolerant of others. What are you thinking with? Whatever you are thinking is coming out of your arse. The 'free market' is a neo-liberal invention used to justify smaller government and to enrich CEO's at the expense of impoverishing a large number of our citizenry; it is a canard that justifies the upward distribution of wealth. Then finally in an effort to justify bigotry you switch 180 degrees from a merchant choosing who he will serve to consumers boycotting a business. The two are diametrically opposed. To answer your whiney complaints about authoritarianism and government coercion, you fail to recognize that we give the government the power to coerce in order to provide for the mutual defense and to maintain a civil society. Under our Constitution we have the power to change that government or to have our representatives restrain that power. Perhaps you would prefer the Libertarian wet dream of anarchy.

Real0ne -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 7:25:27 AM)
the constitution 'GRANTS' you NOTHING as in NO as in NADA as in ZIPPO as in ZERO rights and the fact that you think it does shows that you have no legal background what so ever.

Real0ne -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 7:34:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance DaddySatyr posted: "...Maybe it's prophetic that ol' Dumbo Ears referenced the Crusades. It could happen, again. Christians only have so many cheeks to turn. ..." Considering there have been so many crimes against humanity done in the name of religion; The Crusades among them, I'm finding a bit of sad irony that you feel the same is happening or will/could happen to those of the Christian Faith. Or extremely concerned that you might be implying you think there should be a return of The Crusades to punish the sinners or as some faiths call them, infidels. Thats ridiculous! Virtually everything is in the name of 'religion' and now days the atheist religion is the problem child. People can cite religious wars like the crusades but all theist based religious wars combined you are looking at less than a couple hundred thousand dead from the beginning of time compared to the ATHEIST religious wars where you are looking at a COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION in this century alone.

Real0ne -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 7:41:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance For those who support such Bills, do think that establishments that chose to exercise their religious beliefs should be required to openly post on the door or window stating that the business reserves the right to refuse service based on religious beliefs? we have a local hardware store that does. It simply says they are christain owned and its one of the most popular busiest stores in town. I think that would be a great idea so people can avoid atheist owned businesses and lets not stop there, iets fine atheist owned businesses if they support their atheist butts by selling theist based products! Good idea!

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 7:46:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance DaddySatyr posted: "...Maybe it's prophetic that ol' Dumbo Ears referenced the Crusades. It could happen, again. Christians only have so many cheeks to turn. ..." Considering there have been so many crimes against humanity done in the name of religion; The Crusades among them, I'm finding a bit of sad irony that you feel the same is happening or will/could happen to those of the Christian Faith. Or extremely concerned that you might be implying you think there should be a return of The Crusades to punish the sinners or as some faiths call them, infidels. Thats ridiculous! Virtually everything is in the name of 'religion' and now days the atheist religion is the problem child. People can cite religious wars like the crusades but all theist based religious wars combined you are looking at less than a couple hundred thousand dead from the beginning of time compared to the ATHEIST religious wars where you are looking at a COUPLE HUNDRED MILLION in this century alone. You can substitute any word you like really, religious zealots, greedy zealots, atheist zealots; the crime against humanity is people are killing in whatever name/cause they claim. Originally I didn't cite the Crusades, I simply found the comment made by the person either sadly ironic or very concerning and wondered if he would elaborate. He chose not. I'm not convinced your statements are accurate regarding how many of these killed less than others, but that's on me to research. ETA: if more have been killed in this century alone, I think that is due more to increased populations and efficiency of the weapons used today.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 7:56:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance For those who support such Bills, do think that establishments that chose to exercise their religious beliefs should be required to openly post on the door or window stating that the business reserves the right to refuse service based on religious beliefs? we have a local hardware store that does. It simply says they are christain owned and its one of the most popular busiest stores in town. I think that would be a great idea so people can avoid atheist owned businesses and lets not stop there, iets fine atheist owned businesses if they support their atheist butts by selling theist based products! Good idea! Lol. Your post, while funny (you are a very witty writer) does a great job in making a point. The point being that both extreme sides of this situation is bordering (or already crossed the border) on petty and spiteful comedy.

vincentML -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 8:00:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance For those who support such Bills, do think that establishments that chose to exercise their religious beliefs should be required to openly post on the door or window stating that the business reserves the right to refuse service based on religious beliefs? Would it not be easier to have businesses that are "all inclusive" post such notices on their doors? Probably, but I'm curious if those who support the Bill would openly state in writing their business discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation on religious principals. I don't see why a business would have to make such a claim as it is a round-about way of government using force. Personally, if I see a sign proclaiming "we serve everyone" and the business next door, in the same industry, does not, I'm more likely to give the all-inclusive business my money. People of different beliefs may choose otherwise. We could also have signs like "we really do serve Jews and Coloreds" or, "Jews and Coloreds can use our toilets" or "Jews and Coloreds do not have to go around back to pick up their food order" or "Coloreds do not have to sit in the back of our bus." There is lacking in this discussion an abysmal ignorance of the history of abuse of public accommodations (which include privately owned businesses) When you open your business it is a public accommodation; discrimination is prohibited. Jesus on a bicycle! Understand the history of civil rights in this nation.

vincentML -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 8:05:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne the constitution 'GRANTS' you NOTHING as in NO as in NADA as in ZIPPO as in ZERO rights and the fact that you think it does shows that you have no legal background what so ever. Don't be ignorant, please. By proscribing Congress and the States' actions rights are granted to the people. That's why it is called THE BILL OF RIGHTS!

vincentML -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 8:12:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance For those who support such Bills, do think that establishments that chose to exercise their religious beliefs should be required to openly post on the door or window stating that the business reserves the right to refuse service based on religious beliefs? we have a local hardware store that does. It simply says they are christain owned and its one of the most popular busiest stores in town. I think that would be a great idea so people can avoid atheist owned businesses and lets not stop there, iets fine atheist owned businesses if they support their atheist butts by selling theist based products! Good idea! Stupid idea! It is obvious from this and your previous rants you have an evil hard-on against atheists. Religious freedom includes freedom from religion.

Real0ne -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 8:30:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne the constitution 'GRANTS' you NOTHING as in NO as in NADA as in ZIPPO as in ZERO rights and the fact that you think it does shows that you have no legal background what so ever. Don't be ignorant, please. By proscribing Congress and the States' actions rights are granted to the people. That's why it is called THE BILL OF RIGHTS! FAIL! I can save you some time, but no where in law will you find a contractual stipulation defined as a 'grant' FROM the gubblemint with respect to the BoR. It is an 'ACKNOWLEDGED' of rights by the crookocracy what the crookocracy will not violate or infringe. In the case of the constitution the crookocracy both recognized and agreed by stipulation (so they could exist) to the reservation of rights, which are not UNDER the laws of the unoted states but set aside from the laws of the united states since it has no jurisdiction over religion, speech, and arms etc. The rights 'recognized' in the Bor are PREEXISTING rights. You dont ask the gubblemint to grant to you what you already have. On the other hand the gubblemint was GRANTED it 'authority' from the people PROVIDED it respects our reserved rights. The PEOPLE ARE THE GRANTORS the gubblemint is the grantee The people never granted to the gubblemint the authority to infringe on our reserved rights either individually or severally Hence DEMOCRACY IS IN VIOLATION of our rights when it uses ITS mob pressure, LEGISLATION, COURT DECISIONS, CITIES or MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS to stomp the rights of individuals Statists often have the pecking order reversed.

dcnovice -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 8:39:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance For those who support such Bills, do think that establishments that chose to exercise their religious beliefs should be required to openly post on the door or window stating that the business reserves the right to refuse service based on religious beliefs? Would it not be easier to have businesses that are "all inclusive" post such notices on their doors? Without some sort of signage, how are "undesirables" (at least in the merchant's eyes) supposed to know that they need to take their business elsewhere?

dcnovice -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 8:47:59 AM)
quote: To deny based on race, however, is more complicated. Why? If the landlord truly believes interracial marriage is wrong, doesn't his or her religious liberty allow for turning a couple away? What if the landlord's a devout Jew who disapproves of marrying outside the faith? Does s/he have the legal right to turn away would-be tenants who are in a mixed marriage? Many churchly folks think it wrong to conceive out of wedlock. Does religious liberty mean they can refuse an otherwise qualified tenant who's a single mom?

Real0ne -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 8:54:54 AM)
which is why people since the beginning of time have formed 'communities'

kdsub -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 8:56:55 AM)
How about this.... Therapist realizes he can't abide by his oath and treat all ill people equally.... Decides to find another profession where he can discriminate. Butch

Real0ne -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 9:02:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: For the last fucking time: Ok you got your last say and here is mine.... Facts... Gay goes to therapist... therapist says I will not treat you... therapist denied this gay treatment... this is discrimination, wrong and against his oath... therapist says I'll find another therapist that will treat you... makes no difference the gay was still denied treatment. Now... you would not accept what I said until I delivered a link to the actual bill... How about extening me the same by posting a link to a passage in the Christian Bible that says it is against Gods word to treat the illness of a homosexual. Butch How about this butch; Gay goes to therapist... therapist says you evil fuck stop being gay problem solved next gay please.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 9:15:43 AM)
Wow, I suppose the gay in question could cite a few versus about being saved by grace, not works it bing a gift f God least any man boast... Or, the Greatest of these is love Or, the healthy do not need a physician Or, let those without sin cast the first stone Or the sum of the law is to love God and love your neighbor. Then again, the gay in question could seek therapy from someone who is a less discriminatory, judge mental, holier than though jackass.

Real0ne -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 9:25:10 AM)
so then you also feel that the best way to promote peaceful relations is to jam gay down everyones throat as if the therapist could not legally do just short of what I said and not a damn thing butch could do about it?

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 9:32:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne so then you also feel that the best way to promote peaceful relations is to jam gay down everyones throat as if the therapist could not legally do just short of what I said and not a damn thing butch could do about it? Nope. I think there are jackasses on both side of the argument and the ramming down of throats is best done concensually. I think the best way to promote peaceful relations is for jackasses to recognize their jackassery and try to be better people who respect each other's differences and not demand laws to allow their jackass behavior while complaining in the same breath that another law means the government is over reaching because they must then openly display their jackassocity on a sign to avoid any further escalation of jackasspompeity from the other side. In my case, I just choose to respect the beliefs of others and take my business elsewhere.

dcnovice -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 9:36:39 AM)
quote: Then again, the gay in question could seek therapy from someone who is a less discriminatory, judge mental, holier than though jackass. That would be this gay's instinct. But then, I live in a city with lots of gay and gay-friendly therapists. I've read that mental-health-treatment options for rural folks can be incredibly limited and far-flung.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Thoughts about backwoods Mississippi? (4/10/2016 9:51:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Then again, the gay in question could seek therapy from someone who is a less discriminatory, judge mental, holier than though jackass. That would be this gay's instinct. But then, I live in a city with lots of gay and gay-friendly therapists. I've read that mental-health-treatment options for rural folks can be incredibly limited and far-flung. Yes, I know and I know my idealistic approach isn't realistic and the situation for many is awful. I've really no business debating politics or religion because I find the extreme views on both sides disturbing and have no real argument to make but to be kinder, better human beings who take more responsibility for their own behaviors and stop putting people into the U.S. Vs Them categories.

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