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RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/11/2016 5:27:27 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
OK....Devil's Advocate....
Can you explain to me why we did not see the Republican Party investigate any of the 17 Benghazi-like events that took place during President George W. Bush's eight years in office? To the same level of effort and motivation as they 'attacked' the current President and Hillary Clinton on Benghazi?


Maybe because no one lied and tried to cover them up? No one blamed them on a stupid YouTube video? Maybe, just maybe, there wasn't anything "strange" in the lead up or aftermath?



No one lied and tried to cover up Benghazi. No one blamed them on a stupid Youtube video.





Really? So you don't think there are any talking points advancing the point that benghazi was a spontaneous demonstration that turned violent against an anti-muslim film, hmm. Specifically drafted/approved by Rhodes?

And you don't think powers went on national tv armed with said talking points, eh?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/11/2016 6:35:44 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

No one blamed them on a stupid Youtube video


im incredulous---Hillary Clinton said exactly that at the service when family members were present after the caskets had been brought off the plane.



< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/11/2016 7:17:14 PM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/11/2016 7:58:03 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
All of that happened before the GOP started their witch hunt (and, yes, I do think it's a witch hunt, in it's figurative definition; I do not think Hillary Clinton is an actual witch, so don't accuse me of believing that). I do believe that a false explanation was knowingly given (a lie), though I don't think anything major happened to us because our government lied to us about it.


The GOP were looking for something....ANYTHING....to attack the White House and Hillary Clinton. Right from the start, Benghazi was all about the GOP scoring political points with its voters. The White House gave a statement when things were still days old of the whole encounter. It was not fully correct as a few agencies were still conducting research. The initial information came from those agencies. So rather than blast those agencies for 'shitty work', the GOP goes after the President and Mrs. Clinton.

The whole thing from the GOP perspective was to destroy Hillary's credibility before the nation. It had very little to do with evidence, facts, and truth. If anyone should have been nailed for faulty ability, it would be the GOP. In fact, didn't one of the senators manufacture evidence to attack Clinton on? How fast did it take the Republicans on the Senate 'ethics committee' to slam that guy with charges? Still waiting for it....

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
None of those other 13 were lied about. If you have proof otherwise, please, let us know, otherwise, they aren't like Benghazi, are they? How many of them actually had Americans killed? How many had an ambassador killed? How many lasted hours?


Its seventeen, not thirteen.

Second, I did not state someone had to lie about an event for it to be investigated. If that was the case, care to explain why the GOP controlled Congress didn't go all 'ape-shit' on President Bush for invading Iraq? Whom claimed the #1 reason for the invasion was to remove Saddam's WMDs? There are plenty of videos on youtube of many people in Bush's group whom stated they had seen evidence of massive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.

What I am getting at here, is if the GOP really did hold itself to the same level of accountability and responsibility with power, as they slam the Obama Administration on a daily toll; Bush would have been impeached! He wasn't. Therefore, shows they have no integrity or honesty to even hold their jobs. It goes back to ancient times: "If you are without sin, cast the first stone". The GOP at that time was HELLISHLY corrupted to the core! The Speaker of the House, whom presided over Mr. Clinton's impeachments, was having sex with someone whom was not his wife. How many people in the GOP knew about that? Why did they not hold him accountable? Because Republicans do not attack other Republicans; even when they should!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, you want me to do your research. Not going to happen, Joether. Your claim to back up.


" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Go right ahead....knock yourself out. Make sure to not just look at the 'All' section, but 'Images' and 'Videos' as well.

That's 467,000+ pieces of evidence over a few hundred sites.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Who the fuck are you to define what a "real Christian" would do? That's right. You have zero credibility to define what a "real Christian" would do.


Jesus Christ is a real Christian. Jesus Christ would not allow harm to come to refugees. He would cloth, feed, and even protect them. There is this book called 'The Holy Bible'; talks all about stuff Jesus did towards the most vulnerable in society. Right now, the most vulnerable in the USA would be refugees from Syria and Central/South America.

A real Christian, would help these individuals and not ask anything in return. They would demand our government to push resources from the corporations (whom really do not need a free $40 billion) and use it towards sheltering refugees. Not only that, but take care of them until they can get on their own feet. They would be patient, loving, caring, honest, and genuine. I have no problem with real Christians; they are a God send to this planet!

There are plenty of fake christians. The ones that worship money and greed. Whom wish to build a wall and house it with men with guns; even giving them 'shoot on sight' orders. They support war with Iran irrelevant of whether that nation has nuclear weapons or not. They supported G.W.Bush's 'crusade' in to Iraq. These are the individuals whom will do the bare minimal if it helps them get into Heaven (which is the primary goal). If they have to murder people to get into Heaven in cold blood, that's 'ok' to them. These individuals vote Republican. Or are you going to tell me that Mr. Trump is a model Christian?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I do not disagree that Cruz is a fake. I do not support him as a candidate. He strikes me as everything bad about the stereotypical used car and snake oil salesman.


Mr. Cruz is more dangerous than Mr. Trump. Whereas Mr. Trump is a showman, Mr. Cruz really does believe he's second coming in the flesh and blood! He currently sits as chair for the subcommittee on Space and Science. Its like placing Stephen Hawkins as the chair for religious studies (except Mr. Hawkins would actually try to do good things).

Regardless, in November, we'll have a Democrat in the White House for the 2016-2024 range!

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/11/2016 8:25:46 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Nope. Didn't read it. Don't need to have read it, either.


Yes, so you can join your fellow conservatives as morons. Good play there....

Unfortunately this one group of individuals once stated that future generations of Americans must keep 'up to date' with what the government is doing. Its their responsibility. And whom was this group? The Founding Fathers. So by not reading it, your failing the founding fathers!

When you do not read a document that is in discussion, all you have is bullshit. Doesn't take long for those that did read it to know that either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Healthcare costs are rising. Premiums are rising (which ties directly into the rising costs of healthcare).


Before the ACA, healthcare costs were rising. Now they are not rising as much. There is no such thing as a 'premium' as it concerns the ACA. If you had only read the ACA, you would know what I was talking about.....

The Affordable Care Act does not control the cost of a healthcare plan directly. It does explain how a plan will cost 'x' and be tied to one of for plan types. These would be bronze, silver, gold, and platinum. It does help offset costs through mechanics in government. Instead of giving big corporations money, we give individual citizens money (sort of a reverse trickle down theory).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
It simply shifted the costs of an overly expensive health care system onto others. That doesn't actually make it affordable. Those preventive medicine processes aren't free. Their costs will get rolled into other categories. You and I both know that, and we both know that we both know that.


Except I read the plan and you did not. The healthcare system before the ACA was horrible. We as Americans were paying twice that of European nations while gaining only half of the benefits. The ACA is a tool. Its not designed to handle all possible problems in healthcare. It is set up to help people afford healthcare costs. It is really up to the insurance companies to reduce their prices. But as you know, if the insurance company has a chose between: A ) Greed, and B ) Doing a good thing for Americans; they'll take 'A' every time.

You want to blame the ACA and the Obama Administration on something that is 100% the fault of insurance corporations across the nation? Just shows your not really informed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
See? There's nothing you'd be willing to even look at.


I think I did state "First they actually have to have one....IN WRITING....for me to determine if it would be a better law."

You would find it in the first sentence to which your quoting. Anyone can state they have a healthcare system that is better than the ACA; it is all together different to have one that states everything in exacting details! That is something the GOP does not have right now. Their plan has to benefit the insurance corporations at the expense of American citizens. To do otherwise would be to push for....SOCIALIZED MEDICINE....

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You might want to stand up next time you read my posts, Joether. It's been said that the taller you are, the less things go over your head. So, here's what you missed...


If I were to stand, the great and grand population of this planet would be shorter than me. Even with a typical extra long bed, my feet hand off the end.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/11/2016 9:00:11 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether



Jesus Christ is a real Christian. Jesus Christ would not allow harm to come to refugees. He would cloth, feed, and even protect them. There is this book called 'The Holy Bible'; talks all about stuff Jesus did towards the most vulnerable in society. Right now, the most vulnerable in the USA would be refugees from Syria and Central/South America.



Jesus Christ was a real Jew. Sheesh!

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/11/2016 10:07:10 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Jesus Christ was a real Jew. Sheesh!

Not just a jew but a gay,back,hippie,jew.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/12/2016 11:44:58 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Before the ACA, healthcare costs were rising. Now they are not rising as much.



You might want to inform the Congressional Research Office. Because their numbers directly contradict yours. I'm sure they would love to know where you got your more accurate figures.


quote:

There is no such thing as a 'premium' as it concerns the ACA.


Your 14th major error on the ACA.

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-health-insurance-premiums/

quote:



If you had only read the ACA, you would know what I was talking about.....


LOL Uhuh. Since your statements are non factual, really, no one can possibly know what you're talking about.

quote:


Except I read the plan and you did not. The healthcare system before the ACA was horrible.
We as Americans were paying twice that of European nations while gaining only half of the benefits.


No, according to the Concord report, after removing elective surgeries, we are paying 50% more and getting 36% better healthcare.

Obamacare has done nothing to improve healthcare - it just shifted the cost of paying for poor people to people that already had insurance, and/or the goverment.

This is why people paying for their own insurance is down 10%. Obamacare increased costs so much they could no longer afford it. Great job!
quote:


But as you know, if the insurance company has a chose between: A ) Greed, and B ) Doing a good thing for Americans; they'll take 'A' every time.


So says the no-nothing liberal, again. The last time I bothered to debunk your crap I asked you to estimate what the average profit margin was for health insurance. You were off by more than 400%.

Now that you have the benefit of hindsight - why don't you regale us and show your great knowledge of the insurance market, and tell us what the profit margin of those greedy health insurance companies are....

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/12/2016 1:43:34 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
http://www.fiercehealthpayer.com/story/top-health-insurance-ceo-pay-exceeds-10-million-2014/2015-04-10
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20120811/MAGAZINE/308119967
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/06/09/14912/skyrocketing-salaries-health-insurance-ceos

I dont think the insurance company can go more than 20% according to the ACA so they stuff it down the executives underpants.

Wal-Marts so fuckin broke they closed 2500 stores or something right? Where do we send our pennies to the Waltons?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/12/2016 5:08:45 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
None of those other 13 were lied about. If you have proof otherwise, please, let us know, otherwise, they aren't like Benghazi, are they? How many of them actually had Americans killed? How many had an ambassador killed? How many lasted hours?

Its seventeen, not thirteen.
Second, I did not state someone had to lie about an event for it to be investigated. If that was the case, care to explain why the GOP controlled Congress didn't go all 'ape-shit' on President Bush for invading Iraq? Whom claimed the #1 reason for the invasion was to remove Saddam's WMDs? There are plenty of videos on youtube of many people in Bush's group whom stated they had seen evidence of massive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.
What I am getting at here, is if the GOP really did hold itself to the same level of accountability and responsibility with power, as they slam the Obama Administration on a daily toll; Bush would have been impeached! He wasn't. Therefore, shows they have no integrity or honesty to even hold their jobs. It goes back to ancient times: "If you are without sin, cast the first stone". The GOP at that time was HELLISHLY corrupted to the core! The Speaker of the House, whom presided over Mr. Clinton's impeachments, was having sex with someone whom was not his wife. How many people in the GOP knew about that? Why did they not hold him accountable? Because Republicans do not attack other Republicans; even when they should!


The investigation is about the lies and coverup, Joether. Thus, if there were no lies or coverups about the other 17 (my mistake; thanks for the correction) attacks on the embassies, they are not "Benghazi-like" attacks.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
So, you want me to do your research. Not going to happen, Joether. Your claim to back up.

" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Go right ahead....knock yourself out. Make sure to not just look at the 'All' section, but 'Images' and 'Videos' as well.
That's 467,000+ pieces of evidence over a few hundred sites.


Hillary and her 13.7M hits

Bernie Sanders and his 14.3M hits

Just so we're clear on this part, Joe, none of this actually proves any of these people are Nazi's. Trump's 875k hits (at least when I went to your link) and the millions of hits for Hillary and Bernie aren't all comments that are Nazi-esque. Many are about a candidate being called a Nazi, a candidate calling another a Nazi, etc. Again, none of it's proof that any of them are Nazi's.

You have failed (again) to back up an assertion you made. Colro me Surprised.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Who the fuck are you to define what a "real Christian" would do? That's right. You have zero credibility to define what a "real Christian" would do.

Jesus Christ is a real Christian.


Technically, he was a Jew...

quote:

Jesus Christ would not allow harm to come to refugees. He would cloth, feed, and even protect them. There is this book called 'The Holy Bible'; talks all about stuff Jesus did towards the most vulnerable in society. Right now, the most vulnerable in the USA would be refugees from Syria and Central/South America.
A real Christian, would help these individuals and not ask anything in return. They would demand our government to push resources from the corporations (whom really do not need a free $40 billion) and use it towards sheltering refugees. Not only that, but take care of them until they can get on their own feet. They would be patient, loving, caring, honest, and genuine. I have no problem with real Christians; they are a God send to this planet!
There are plenty of fake christians. The ones that worship money and greed. Whom wish to build a wall and house it with men with guns; even giving them 'shoot on sight' orders. They support war with Iran irrelevant of whether that nation has nuclear weapons or not. They supported G.W.Bush's 'crusade' in to Iraq. These are the individuals whom will do the bare minimal if it helps them get into Heaven (which is the primary goal). If they have to murder people to get into Heaven in cold blood, that's 'ok' to them. These individuals vote Republican. Or are you going to tell me that Mr. Trump is a model Christian?


Never have I said that Trump is a model Christian. Actually, never have I stated that anyone is a model Christian. You claimed that a "real Christian" would "not only bring those fleeing other nations into ours, but help them get started on rebuilding their lives." Nowhere have you even come close to proving that. The US is a pretty damn benevolent country at times. We give a lot of aid to other countries, impoverished countries, countries that have suffered some catastrophic event, etc. without really asking for much in return.

You don't have to bring people into the US to be helping them rebuild their lives and be safe.

quote:

Regardless, in November, we'll have a Democrat in the White House for the 2016-2024 range!


That very well may be true, Joether. And I will address the next President similar to how I address the current one. Obviously, "President Sanders" is only similar to "President Obama," so....

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/12/2016 5:22:59 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Nope. Didn't read it. Don't need to have read it, either.

Yes, so you can join your fellow conservatives as morons. Good play there....
Unfortunately this one group of individuals once stated that future generations of Americans must keep 'up to date' with what the government is doing. Its their responsibility. And whom was this group? The Founding Fathers. So by not reading it, your failing the founding fathers!
When you do not read a document that is in discussion, all you have is bullshit. Doesn't take long for those that did read it to know that either.


Actually, Joether, I don't need to have read it. I don't need to have read it because I've read what others have said about it, who have read it. I've read what Betsy Mcoadhfoiha (spelling might be a bit off there) has said about it. I've read what you've said about it. I've looked things up in it, reading it for myself. I've read what conservatives and liberals have said about it. I don't need to have read it myself, Joether. That's just a diversionary tactic of yours.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Healthcare costs are rising. Premiums are rising (which ties directly into the rising costs of healthcare).

Before the ACA, healthcare costs were rising. Now they are not rising as much. There is no such thing as a 'premium' as it concerns the ACA. If you had only read the ACA, you would know what I was talking about.....


That fucking right wing conservative tea party organization, KFF!!! How DARE they make an outrageous claim like this?!?!?

Analysis of 2016 Premium Changes in the Affordable Care Act’s Health Insurance Marketplaces



quote:

The Affordable Care Act does not control the cost of a healthcare plan directly. It does explain how a plan will cost 'x' and be tied to one of for plan types. These would be bronze, silver, gold, and platinum. It does help offset costs through mechanics in government. Instead of giving big corporations money, we give individual citizens money (sort of a reverse trickle down theory).


You take from one set of citizens to another set of citizens. Obamacare doesn't control the costs of health care at all.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
It simply shifted the costs of an overly expensive health care system onto others. That doesn't actually make it affordable. Those preventive medicine processes aren't free. Their costs will get rolled into other categories. You and I both know that, and we both know that we both know that.

Except I read the plan and you did not. The healthcare system before the ACA was horrible. We as Americans were paying twice that of European nations while gaining only half of the benefits. The ACA is a tool. Its not designed to handle all possible problems in healthcare. It is set up to help people afford healthcare costs. It is really up to the insurance companies to reduce their prices. But as you know, if the insurance company has a chose between: A ) Greed, and B ) Doing a good thing for Americans; they'll take 'A' every time.
You want to blame the ACA and the Obama Administration on something that is 100% the fault of insurance corporations across the nation? Just shows your not really informed.


Again, don't need to have read it.

Do you have any proof that if we were to switch to any one of the European models of socialized medicine that our health care costs would drop rather than simply not rise as quickly? No one has any proof of the former, yet, the latter is exactly what has happened, in every case. We were all relatively close to each other back in the 50's, and then in the 60's, our costs started escalating at a rate much greater than any other country's.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
See? There's nothing you'd be willing to even look at.

I think I did state "First they actually have to have one....IN WRITING....for me to determine if it would be a better law."


Actually, that's not quite what you wrote. You read the ACA, but you can't even read your own posts?!?

quote:

You would find it in the first sentence to which your quoting. Anyone can state they have a healthcare system that is better than the ACA; it is all together different to have one that states everything in exacting details! That is something the GOP does not have right now. Their plan has to benefit the insurance corporations at the expense of American citizens. To do otherwise would be to push for....SOCIALIZED MEDICINE....


I make no claims that the GOP has anything. Neither my place, nor my concern.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You might want to stand up next time you read my posts, Joether. It's been said that the taller you are, the less things go over your head. So, here's what you missed...

If I were to stand, the great and grand population of this planet would be shorter than me. Even with a typical extra long bed, my feet hand off the end.


And yet, stuff still goes sailing waaaay over your head.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/12/2016 5:30:03 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

No one blamed them on a stupid Youtube video


im incredulous---Hillary Clinton said exactly that at the service when family members were present after the caskets had been brought off the plane.




Hillary also explained doing so as "The Fog of War" at the Senate Bengazi hearings. Hillary is someone therefore, someone did blame a stupid video. I watched the video. It was pretty stupid. It was supposed to be about Mohammad fucking a jackass. I was thinking Tiajana. I was pretty disappointed.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/12/2016 8:27:35 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


If I were to stand, the great and grand population of this planet would be shorter than me. Even with a typical extra long bed, my feet hand off the end.




My bed is 84 inches long. You are claiming to be over 7 feet tall? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/12/2016 8:43:11 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
Before the ACA, healthcare costs were rising. Now they are not rising as much.

What fantasy are you listning to?
While the rise in the cost of insurance may have slowed, it is more than made up for in the masive amounts you have to pay before the insurance kicks in.
Thus regardless of the cost of the insurance, or even the rate of increase in health care, people still have to pay much more for health care than before Obamacare (a name he was proud of till people found out they were being shafted by it).

BTW this has absolutely nothing to do with the possiblity that Obama is finally coming clean about Fast and Furious.

Looks like he may be throwing Holder under the bus to try and save Hillary.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/12/2016 10:28:09 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

the Republican Party investigate any of the 17 Benghazi-like events that took place during President George W. Bush's eight years in office?


I schooled you on this the last time you brought it up.

Please tell me what incident that happened under George W. Bush that you think qualified as 'like Bengazi'.

Tell me what time a secretary of state under G. W. Bush turned down more than 200 requests for additional security.
Tell me what SoS signed a waiver saying a consulate didn't have to meet minimum security standards?

Tell me what attack on a US installation did they promise the deputy chief of mission that help was on the way - and then not send any?
Tell me what attack had clear explicit warnings the day before - and yet security wasn't beefed up.
All the while on the anniversary of 9/11.

Tell me in which attack did the NSA instruct the spokesperson to emphasize that it wasn't a failure of policy, but an attack that grew out of spontaneous protests.
Even though there were no protests mentioned in the embassy logs, or by embassy staff. To the contrary.

Tell me which Bengazi-like incident a top secret facility was allowed to fall into the hands of terrorists, and CNN found top secret materials lying around on the site two weeks later. Tell me what incident under geroge w. Bush jeopardized and caused to be rolled up our entire spy network in a country.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The answer of course, is none.

But I'll make it even easier for you. Why don't you tell me what incident that Americans in service to the United States Government - died.

I wait with baited breath.


< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 4/12/2016 10:47:25 PM >

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/12/2016 10:48:26 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.fiercehealthpayer.com/story/top-health-insurance-ceo-pay-exceeds-10-million-2014/2015-04-10
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20120811/MAGAZINE/308119967
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/06/09/14912/skyrocketing-salaries-health-insurance-ceos

I dont think the insurance company can go more than 20% according to the ACA so they stuff it down the executives underpants.


Links for executive compensation have nothing to do with profit margins for the insurance industry. You are merely try to inflame the argument rather than speak to it.

Aetna reported 50 billion in revenue. Using your source of $10 million in compensation for its CEO - that 10e6/50e9 or .002. Statistically it doesn't even register in the noise. Why is it you complain about health care executives earning 10 million - when baseball players earn 50 million. Really?

The ACA actually limits non medical care expenses. Not that it actually matters however, because virtually every healthcare organization was already exceeding those requirements pre- ACA. I believe in the history of the aca 2 insurers have been forced to give rebates of a few dollars.

Either way health care profit margins are 3.3% Hospitals are 3.6%. Under virtually any industry you care to name. Textiles - 6.4% Biotech 6.7% Wallstreet banks 7%. Railroads 12.9%. Security software 13.5 % etc. etc.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/08/25/why-health-insurers-make-lousy-villains
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/SoMLoWBKM4I/AAAAAAAAK4g/wKdZyg5LxQ0/s1600-h/profits.bmp
http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/margin.html

So the myth of "greedy insurers" is, in fact, just that. A myth. Unless you also want to blame greedy solar power manufacturers. Greedy teachers unions. Greedy organic farmers. Greedy Starbucks -- you know - companies/organizations that exceed those margins by quite a bit.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/13/2016 4:41:36 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

No one blamed them on a stupid Youtube video


im incredulous---Hillary Clinton said exactly that at the service when family members were present after the caskets had been brought off the plane.




Hillary also explained doing so as "The Fog of War" at the Senate Bengazi hearings. Hillary is someone therefore, someone did blame a stupid video. I watched the video. It was pretty stupid. It was supposed to be about Mohammad fucking a jackass. I was thinking Tiajana. I was pretty disappointed.



Except in either case she never blamed it on a video. That is pure nutsuckerism. The kind that you can see Russia from your house.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/13/2016 4:57:32 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I schooled you on this the last time you brought it up.

You have yet to "school" anyone about anything.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/13/2016 5:05:14 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

http://www.fiercehealthpayer.com/story/top-health-insurance-ceo-pay-exceeds-10-million-2014/2015-04-10
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20120811/MAGAZINE/308119967
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/06/09/14912/skyrocketing-salaries-health-insurance-ceos

I dont think the insurance company can go more than 20% according to the ACA so they stuff it down the executives underpants.


Links for executive compensation have nothing to do with profit margins for the insurance industry. You are merely try to inflame the argument rather than speak to it.

Aetna reported 50 billion in revenue. Using your source of $10 million in compensation for its CEO - that 10e6/50e9 or .002. Statistically it doesn't even register in the noise. Why is it you complain about health care executives earning 10 million - when baseball players earn 50 million. Really?

The ACA actually limits non medical care expenses. Not that it actually matters however, because virtually every healthcare organization was already exceeding those requirements pre- ACA. I believe in the history of the aca 2 insurers have been forced to give rebates of a few dollars.

Either way health care profit margins are 3.3% Hospitals are 3.6%. Under virtually any industry you care to name. Textiles - 6.4% Biotech 6.7% Wallstreet banks 7%. Railroads 12.9%. Security software 13.5 % etc. etc.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/08/25/why-health-insurers-make-lousy-villains
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/SoMLoWBKM4I/AAAAAAAAK4g/wKdZyg5LxQ0/s1600-h/profits.bmp
http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/margin.html

So the myth of "greedy insurers" is, in fact, just that. A myth. Unless you also want to blame greedy solar power manufacturers. Greedy teachers unions. Greedy organic farmers. Greedy Starbucks -- you know - companies/organizations that exceed those margins by quite a bit.



NO, the strawman doesn't work. the 10 million guy working for the insurance company, is now at .002 but then when we say raise wages to $15 an hour, nutsuckers go innumerate, jesus christ the capitalist system will fail if we pay a living wage. Uh, the point is, that executive compensation in the insurance industry is rising to eat up the profits to get it in the 20% range, buildings are being built, lobbyists are getting money dumped at them and so on, the limits being that this should provide more healthcare, however, no more care is provided.

There are a great number of takers here and no producers, those people get the shaft, and nutsuckerism speaks falsely regarding this.

As your US News article pointed out. You should have read it past the headline.

greedy solar power manufacturers
Greedy teachers unions
Greedy organic farmers
Greedy Starbucks

None of these insustry numbers are in anything you quoted, so I am going to have to call nutsuckerism.
http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/margin.html

Healthcare margins seem to be bigger under any measure than yours, so nutsuckerism again.

Factless asswipe devoid of reality won't cut it as a way to decide the future of this, I am afraid. Better you remain silent than spout nutsucker propaganda.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/13/2016 5:14:12 AM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/13/2016 11:03:37 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
The fact that stern rates hospital / health care profits at 4.09% and the other rates them at 3.6% - difference are to be expected since they use different data sets and different methods of calculating profits.
In neither case is the profit margin the 20% you guessed. Nor does 3-4% - support joether's accusation of "greedy corporation" as it is in the lowest quartile of companies actually making a profit.

And the rest of your accusations are unsupported and counterfactual. So until you can bother to find a mainstream cite for it - we will treat it as it properly deserves. As counterfactual ramblings of an anonymous (oops, not anonymous) internet poster.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Fast & Furious is back - 4/13/2016 11:15:16 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
I did not guess the profit margin at 20%. I didn't even mention what their profit margins were in that post. You can't seem to give up the nutsuckerisms.

Try again, this time read the English language, not nutsucker language.

As for your comment upon the citation, we treat all your ridiculous unfounded factless posts and citations in that manner, or as nutsucker slobber blog parroting outright.


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 40
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