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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 7:32:24 AM

kdsub

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Yes I remember that photo quite well... that and the My Lai Massacre did much to change support for the war.

Butch

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 7:39:28 AM

vincentML

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As I recall it both photos mentioned above were important movers of the anti-war movement. Also very important were the television images of protesting Buddhist monks torching themselves in the street.

Was America's involvement justified. Not according to Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara's late life mea culpas.

Ho Chi Ming had sent letters to Truman in 1945 asking for America's help in freeing Vietnam from French colonialism; Eisenhower reneged on the Geneva peace accords for a nationwide election in Vietnam after French colonial forces could no longer cut it; Kennedy increased American military presence from 500 'advisors' to 16,000; Johnson's Gulf of Tonkin incident was a fraud; Nixon's peace plan was to bomb the crap out of Cambodia and North Vietnam; 50,000 American boys died. So no, the photo of one killing pales in significance.

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 7:57:56 AM

kdsub

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I certainly am not defending the war and this is not the point of the thread. In fact I was against our entry in the gulf wars because of Vietnam. The example was one of many that could have been used to make a point. That point being the importance of truth in reporting and how little integrity there is in the media today.

We here on the boards often site media stories as fact when in the majority of cases the information is misleading false or incomplete. I am guilty of this as well. I don't care what story you post I can find another with a completely opposite conclusion... I don't care what statistic you post I can find another that is different.

There is very little truth and what there is cannot be trusted... our free press is failing us.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 23

RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 8:05:57 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I certainly am not defending the war and this is not the point of the thread. In fact I was against our entry in the gulf wars because of Vietnam. The example was one of many that could have been used to make a point. That point being the importance of truth in reporting and how little integrity there is in the media today.

We here on the boards often site media stories as fact when in the majority of cases the information is misleading false or incomplete. I am guilty of this as well. I don't care what story you post I can find another with a completely opposite conclusion... I don't care what statistic you post I can find another that is different.

There is very little truth and what there is cannot be trusted... our free press is failing us.

Butch

Good point. But when in our history was the press unbiased one way or another? Check out Noam Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" ~ a bit boring to read but revealing.

(in reply to kdsub)

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 8:43:32 AM

kdsub

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I know it is an impractical daydream but I wish a main stream network news organization would start a news hour called… Just the facts. They would present the news without editorializing in any way… just the facts.

I think it would succeed in gaining viewers as the general public came to have trust in their integrity. Otherwise a real novelty and money maker.

Wishful think I’m afraid.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/23/2016 9:00:08 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 25

RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 8:51:08 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I wasn't around at the time so I can't really say but wasn't there another still photo that had an enormous impact? The pic was of a naked girl, perhaps 8-10 y o, with terrible burn wounds, running from her village which was in flames, said to be caused by napalm bombing. The pic certainly had a powerful effect on me when I first saw it.

While I don't doubt for a moment that the OP photo had an enormous impact around the world, I have read several times that this photo, not the one in the OP is credited with changing a lot of minds about the war in Vietnam.
This is a link to the pic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc

In a happy footnote, the young girl survived and eventually migrated to Canada, where she established a foundation to help child victims of war and became a UNESCO Goodwill Ambassador.

OMFG...

"Audio tapes of President Richard Nixon, in conversation with his chief of staff, H. R. Haldeman in 1972, reveal that Nixon mused "I'm wondering if that was fixed" after seeing the photograph"

American politicians are such scum..

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 8:58:30 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I know it is an impractical daydream but I wish a main stream network news organization would start a news hour called… Just the facts. They would present the news without editorializing in any way… just the facts.

I think it would succeed in gaining viewer as the general public came to have trust in their integrity. Otherwise a real novelty and money maker.

Wishful think I’m afraid.

Butch

I think "facts" are just like statistics, it depends on who came up with them and what their agenda was.. its pretty hard to find anyone without an agenda of some sort, they will hide the "facts" that dont fit the conclusion they want to present.. They problem too often is that people/sheeple dont question the conclusions they are presented with (which is how politicians can get away with murder)...

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 9:05:46 AM

kdsub

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I believe there is no need for conclusions in the news and there are facts... at least creditable facts that could change with new information. That is all i would ask... Then let the Fox and NBC's of this world editorialize all they want. At least there would be a dependable source where we could make our own conclusions.

If such a organisation existed would you watch it? I certainly would and I think most who wished to be informed would.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 28

RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 9:12:26 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I believe there is no need for conclusions in the news and there are facts... at least creditable facts that could change with new information. That is all i would ask... Then let the Fox and NBC's of this world editorialize all they want. At least there would be a dependable source where we could make our own conclusions.

If such a organisation existed would you watch it? I certainly would and I think most who wished to be informed would.

Butch

That is a lot to ask.. again, facts can be hidden even with a so called "dependable" source.. I think the purest source is Wikileaks & whistleblower sites like that.. but we know govts try hard to shut them down..

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 9:19:54 AM

kdsub

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I do agree that what is taken as fact may be anything but...however if new information came in and was presented that is all we could ask for. Myself I find a news organization such as the BBC closer to an unbiased organization than any here in the US but even they sometimes editorialize.

I would not put my faith in the absolute truth of whistle blowers... nor would I discount them. Sometimes they just have a bone to pick and or not privy to the whole story or truth. And then again their stories are often filtered through political news organisations.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tj444)

Post #: 30

RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 9:39:18 AM

WickedsDesire

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Edited to put the correct response in the correct forum

Never seen the image before. So Americans opinion turned on the back of one image and made up words.
Not that I know what that war was about.

< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 4/23/2016 9:54:02 AM >

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 12:11:54 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: sloguy02246
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I will be first to admit it - that sniper probably did deserve to die.

Why should snipers be executed?

Not all snipers, just that one - IF he did kill non-combatant civilians.

Carlos hathcock usmc did the same thing. Should he have been executed without trial. We are talking about a pow.

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 12:18:10 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes I remember that photo quite well... that and the My Lai Massacre did much to change support for the war.

Perhaps we should have put a bullet in bill calleys, and ernie medina's heads?

(in reply to kdsub)

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 12:21:55 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

I know it is an impractical daydream but I wish a main stream network news organization would start a news hour called… Just the facts. They would present the news without editorializing in any way… just the facts.

So in this case should they have given the dead mans history as well as the shooters history?
You see I am aware of both.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 34

RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 1:16:41 PM

kdsub

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Knowing why something was done and the motivation does not mean you agree with or justify the actions... but it may change a false impression... Or at least allows you to understand what happened and why.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 35

RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 1:21:54 PM

sloguy02246

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I will be first to admit it - that sniper probably did deserve to die.

Why should snipers be executed?

Not all snipers, just that one - IF he did kill non-combatant civilians.

Carlos hathcock usmc did the same thing. Should he have been executed without trial. We are talking about a pow.

I wasn't stating that a vigilante execution of this guy was okay.
I was making the point that if the sniper did kill innocent civilians, he should have received a death sentence, but in a court of law - not from that "general" deciding that an execution photo op was a good way to convey a personal political message to the VC.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 36

RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 2:39:34 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Edited to put the correct response in the correct forum

Never seen the image before. So Americans opinion turned on the back of one image and made up words.
Not that I know what that war was about.

Well,.. I am not an American but history does seem to show that many/most Americans did change their opinion (although I would say most that were drafted were against it right from the start).. now of course we are hardened and watching vids of people being shot in the back is hard to avoid (I do try to avoid that).. that would have been a pretty graphic photo for the time tho.. I think various other things/events also came into play, such as the famous Muhammad Ali refusing and going to jail and the exodus of draft dodgers that ran to Canada.. and the war dragging on and on (& their children coming home in body bags) caused people to tire of it.. so imo over time the reasons to end the war grew as more people became opposed to it..

I dont know what that war was about either as Canada was very opposed to it..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to WickedsDesire)

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 2:56:32 PM

KenDckey

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In journalism, they taught us to report who, what, when, where, how, and why. Or as Joe Friday said “Just the facts.”

This article from Mother Jones shows that not just the facts were reported, but the bias of the media -
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/04/donald-trump-republican-delusion-map

This is another example http://www.mrconservative.com/2016/04/72103-what-the-obamas-are-doing-today-will-make-you-sick/

This is an example of reasonable journalism
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/judge-sentences-veteran-to-24-hours-in-jail-then-joins-him-behind-bars-1.405772

(in reply to sloguy02246)

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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 3:18:39 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

In journalism, they taught us to report who, what, when, where, how, and why. Or as Joe Friday said “Just the facts.”

This article from Mother Jones shows that not just the facts were reported, but the bias of the media -
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/04/donald-trump-republican-delusion-map

This is another example http://www.mrconservative.com/2016/04/72103-what-the-obamas-are-doing-today-will-make-you-sick/

This is an example of reasonable journalism
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/judge-sentences-veteran-to-24-hours-in-jail-then-joins-him-behind-bars-1.405772

That you cannot see the bias in all three stories is quite telling.

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 39

RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 4:24:24 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

I will be first to admit it - that sniper probably did deserve to die.

Why should snipers be executed?

Not all snipers, just that one - IF he did kill non-combatant civilians.

Also a close friend or relative of the officer had just been killed by a bomb (not an areial bomb but a terroist type bomb) all of these things are extinuating circumstances, not really justification.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Post #: 40

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