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RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 4:29:44 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I wasn't around at the time so I can't really say but wasn't there another still photo that had an enormous impact? The pic was of a naked girl, perhaps 8-10 y o, with terrible burn wounds, running from her village which was in flames, said to be caused by napalm bombing. The pic certainly had a powerful effect on me when I first saw it.


While I don't doubt for a moment that the OP photo had an enormous impact around the world, I have read several times that this photo, not the one in the OP is credited with changing a lot of minds about the war in Vietnam.
This is a link to the pic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc

In a happy footnote, the young girl survived and eventually migrated to Canada, where she established a foundation to help child victims of war and became a UNESCO Goodwill Ambassador.

It was part of a news blitz to convince Americans that the war was unwinnable and that Tet was a total disaster for the U S.
The truth was, and this has been admitted by some of the people pushing the idea that we were soundly beaten, that Tet was a total disaster for the VC, from that point on the North Vietnamese regualrs had to do the vast majority of the fighting. Bits of truth to promote a big lie.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 4:32:36 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I certainly am not defending the war and this is not the point of the thread. In fact I was against our entry in the gulf wars because of Vietnam. The example was one of many that could have been used to make a point. That point being the importance of truth in reporting and how little integrity there is in the media today.

We here on the boards often site media stories as fact when in the majority of cases the information is misleading false or incomplete. I am guilty of this as well. I don't care what story you post I can find another with a completely opposite conclusion... I don't care what statistic you post I can find another that is different.

There is very little truth and what there is cannot be trusted... our free press is failing us.

Butch

The alleged milk factory in Iraq is a great example.
CNN later admitted that they knew it was a lie when they broadcast it, but they would have greater access if they reported things the way the Iraqis wanted them to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 6:08:11 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It sure was a failure where I was.

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 6:19:18 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It sure was a failure where I was.

Butch

The soldiers at Bastogne would say the same thing.
The war was horribly mismanaged.
It doesn't change the fact that overall Tet was a total military disaster for the VC and the press pretended it was just the opposite.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 6:20:26 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

I will be first to admit it - that sniper probably did deserve to die.

Why should snipers be executed?





Not all snipers, just that one - IF he did kill non-combatant civilians.


Also a close friend or relative of the officer had just been killed by a bomb (not an areial bomb but a terroist type bomb) all of these things are extinuating circumstances, not really justification.



They found him next to a bloody pile pile of civilians he had killed and he admitted it.

The point of a trial is to determine guilt.

In this case guilt was known.

Also, you are not required to take prisoners. It is just not always possible.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/23/2016 7:47:26 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

I will be first to admit it - that sniper probably did deserve to die.

Why should snipers be executed?





Not all snipers, just that one - IF he did kill non-combatant civilians.


Also a close friend or relative of the officer had just been killed by a bomb (not an areial bomb but a terroist type bomb) all of these things are extinuating circumstances, not really justification.



They found him next to a bloody pile pile of civilians he had killed and he admitted it.

The point of a trial is to determine guilt.

In this case guilt was known.

Also, you are not required to take prisoners. It is just not always possible.

That and the little girl fleeing the napalm attack where protrayed as the essence of the war.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 1:05:06 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Look kinkroids, the Vietnam war was a war for profit and didn't need to ever end. LBJ's build up and lifting of sanction against the Soviets was to prolong the war. The 500,000 troops, the B52's and the napalm was simply beat the NVA back above the DMZ. (demilitarized zone)

Once beaten back, it would be a prolonged 'police action.' Then after the antiwar demonstrations began and LBJ tired of sending draftees to their death, (refused to run again) he got the NV to the negotiating table. Come election year, Nixon sent Kissinger to NV to tell them to hold off and they'd get a better deal from Nixon. They did hold off with LBJ...no peace.

Then Nixon proceeded to prolong the war another 6 years and another 30-40,000 dead US draftees. Every single veteran that I met who had been lucky enough to return, advised future draftees to go to Canada or the NG if they had to. (National Guard) Under no circumstance were you to allow yourself to be drafted and sent to VN.

The NV were told that we wouldn't attack their anti aircraft weapons unless they were operational. Which resulted in many of our guys getting shot down. We also let it be known that we wouldn't pursue the NVA or the VC beyond the DMZ or into Cambodia or Laos. Then when the N. Vietnamese refused to neg. peace. Nixon finally started to bomb Hanoi and Cambodia and then finally neg., what amounted to our retreat, followed by a refusal to force the NVA to make it peaceful one.

The press never asked any meaningful questions about our operations, or rules of engagement or why Kissinger was even in country. Watergate was the last bit of real investigative journalism this country will ever see. The picture in the link...bordered on a pornography of violence.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 4/24/2016 1:13:24 AM >

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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 3:10:48 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Aylee
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Why should snipers be executed?


They found him next to a bloody pile pile of civilians he had killed and he admitted it.

The point of a trial is to determine guilt.

He was a pow subject to the geneva convention.

In this case guilt was known.
Also, you are not required to take prisoners.

Is that what they taught you in the amerikan army?

It is just not always possible.

Malmedy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy_massacre

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 3:24:01 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: BamaD


It was part of a news blitz to convince Americans that the war was unwinnable and that Tet was a total disaster for the U S.
The truth was, and this has been admitted by some of the people pushing the idea that we were soundly beaten, that Tet was a total disaster for the VC, from that point on the North Vietnamese regualrs had to do the vast majority of the fighting. Bits of truth to promote a big lie.

What your revisionist view of history fails to mention is that the administration had been pimping the concept that n.viet nam had been soundly defeated prior to the 68' tet offensive( every year tet had produced some sort of offensive) and that as 'wastemoreland' kept saying "we are just mopping up" was proved to be a lie. That the n. vietnamese were fully capable of mounting a major offensive. That it was a failure militarily is not in question. That it showed the falsity of the administration and the military propaganda was a huge success and caused the peace talks to take on a more serious tone.
That you think this was the sole act of the v.c and not the nva shows you have no clue about that of which you bluster.


http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Tet_offensive.aspx

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 8:33:34 AM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: sloguy02246

I will be first to admit it - that sniper probably did deserve to die.

Why should snipers be executed?





Not all snipers, just that one - IF he did kill non-combatant civilians.


Also a close friend or relative of the officer had just been killed by a bomb (not an areial bomb but a terroist type bomb) all of these things are extinuating circumstances, not really justification.



They found him next to a bloody pile pile of civilians he had killed and he admitted it.

The point of a trial is to determine guilt.

In this case guilt was known.

Also, you are not required to take prisoners. It is just not always possible.

That and the little girl fleeing the napalm attack where protrayed as the essence of the war.


Sorry. . . I was responding to the "IF he did it" comment along with the whole trial comments. I thought that you were saying that all the deaths the dead guy caused were not a justification of him being summarily executed.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 9:11:32 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Aylee
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Why should snipers be executed?


They found him next to a bloody pile pile of civilians he had killed and he admitted it.

The point of a trial is to determine guilt.

He was a pow subject to the geneva convention.

In this case guilt was known.
Also, you are not required to take prisoners.

Is that what they taught you in the amerikan army?

It is just not always possible.

Malmedy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy_massacre



I'm not sure but I do not believe South Vietnam signed the Geneva accords... I do not know if this man came before a military tribunal or not.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 9:19:04 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		fr

Free press is great, however when the free press prejudices a trial hence an innocent man is stripped of his life that is going too far. This is all too often the case in the press.

Going a step further the press should be limited to strictly presenting the facts and doing so in a neutral manner or held liable for any injury to any party resulting from their 'slanted' reporting.


quote:

Legal experts blast Avery prosecutor's conduct
John Ferak, USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin 2:12 p.m. CST January 24, 2016
Kratz: "If I had to do it over again, I would have simply released the criminal complaint"

Legal experts are strongly criticizing the sensational pretrial press conferences conducted by special prosecutor Ken Kratz leading up to the 2007 jury trials of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey.

Kratz's strategy, say experienced lawyers and legal scholars from across the country, crossed the line of ethical conduct, and are in the public eye again now because of the release of the smash-hit Netflix documentary "Making a Murderer."

Nearly a decade ago, Kratz revealed gory, unfounded allegations against Avery and Dassey while they were jailed for the Oct. 31, 2005, disappearance and murder of Teresa Halbach, a 25-year-old freelance photographer from Calumet County. Halbach visited the Avery Salvage Yard in rural Manitowoc County on the same day she was last seen alive. Human remains identified as Halbach's were later found on the Avery property.

Barely four months into the case, Kratz made at least seven statements to the press implicating Avery or Dassey, or both, in Halbach's murder, according to court records. By August, Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis rejected a motion filed by Avery's attorneys Jerome Buting and Dean Strang asking the judge to dismiss the charges against Avery because of "inflammatory and highly prejudicial" pretrial publicity. The judge from Manitowoc ruled there was no legal precedent for such "drastic" action.


then today we see:

quote:

Lawyer: Steven Avery has an 'airtight alibi'
Doug Schneider, USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin 11:15 a.m. CST March 7, 2016
Your daily summary of important news, opinions and trivia about 'Making a Murderer,' the Teresa Halbach slaying and the trial and conviction of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey

Since she began representing Steven Avery, Kathleen Zellner hasn't been shy about using Twitter to share her theories and feelings about her client's conviction in the 2005 murder of photographer Teresa Halbach.

Sunday's tweet, though, took her efforts to a new level.

The suburban Chicago attorney declared that cellphone tower records "provide airtight alibi for" Avery: "She left [the] property he didn't."

The tweet seems to say that Halbach's phone was used after her visit to Avery's Manitowoc County auto-salvage yard, where she had gone to photograph a car that Avery said he wanted to list for sale.

Cell-tower records we've seen in other cases can be used to show a user's movement as his or her phone uses different towers as the person drives through an area. What they don't necessarily show is who was using the phone at the time.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 11:30:52 AM   
Cinnamongirl67


Posts: 854
Status: offline 		There will always be people hungry for power.
They will do anything to get it.
Sad fact.
It is unbelievable what they will do. Lie, cheat, steal, and kill.
It is hard to believe that people do it, even destroying the good. Just to be in power. They will do anything, completely anything.
They fool the best of people. They say they are not jealous but the truth is they are liars who delude you so they can take position.
They lie to themselves so it's very easy to lie to others.
It's painful and hurtful but absolutely true.
My heart goes out to all.☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️❤️💕💕💕.
Predators who will be stopped in their tracks. God bless.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 1:59:03 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Aylee


Sorry. . . I was responding to the "IF he did it" comment along with the whole trial comments. I thought that you were saying that all the deaths the dead guy caused were not a justification of him being summarily executed.


That is exactly what I said.
He was a pow and entitled to all the protection that derives from that status. You as a veteran should know that.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 2:19:14 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'm not sure but I do not believe South Vietnam signed the Geneva accords... I do not know if this man came before a military tribunal or not.


You put this shit up and now claim ignorance of the particulars.
How difficult would it be for you to google and find out?
If it is too much phoquing trouble let me help you.
Yes they were.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_the_Geneva_Conventions

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 3:30:01 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		No they did not sign... they refused the UN settlement and did not sign the accords... look it up.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/24/2016 3:39:03 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 3:34:16 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: kdsub

No they did not sign

Well butch I have given you site that says they did. Are you prepared to back up your bullshit? Let's see it....or will we just have to take your word for it?[8|

I note that you reference the geneva accords of 1954 which deals with the partitioning of viet nam and the predicted elections of 1956. The geneva convention deals with prisoners of war and the conduct of war.
The geneve accords were signed by no one. The geneve convention concerning the rules of war were signed by both north and south viet nam.
The one has nothing to do with the other. The geneva accords have nothing to do with the rules of war or the treatment of prisoners.
So please let us not be disingenuous.


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/24/2016 3:41:23 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 3:40:47 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Rep... want to eat crow AGAIN...lol

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 3:42:53 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		HERE and there are many more... just look it up.

HERE


Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/24/2016 3:43:49 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The power of the press and how it shapes history - 4/24/2016 3:43:18 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: kdsub

Rep... want to eat crow AGAIN...lol

Try again. You posted too soon...I had to add some clarification for your ignorance.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 60
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