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RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 5/7/2016 7:04:35 PM   
whitedragonX


Posts: 75
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ParadoxicalMind

As someone submissive who has grown up in a society where men are expected to act dominant, strong, unmoved, and are expected to hide their emotions and conceal their weaknesses, I'd argue that the very notion of a man submitting to a woman is a tabboo.

What do you think?


Yes, but you have to understand, this is a cultural construction, and is bound to change. 500 years ago, female's couldn't even express their sexuality or be dominant. Guys controlled everything look where we are now.

(in reply to ParadoxicalMind)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 5/7/2016 11:53:36 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

500 years ago, female's couldn't even express their sexuality or be dominant.

That's not actually accurate, that is more the perception given by literature.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 5/8/2016 3:08:12 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ParadoxicalMind

As someone submissive who has grown up in a society where men are expected to act dominant, strong, unmoved, and are expected to hide their emotions and conceal their weaknesses, I'd argue that the very notion of a man submitting to a woman is a tabboo.

What do you think?

So the cliche' of the husband needing permission and having to "ask the wife" isn't real? Being that you are submissive, I think you overlook at how submissive society tries to condition men in general.

At the risk of stereotyping, whether a the family unit is patriarchal or matriarchal is a regional cultural thing. Take one phrase, "a man home is his castle." Bullshit, in one nation/region it is common for the woman to rule the house and set the rules. In another culture, if the wife disobeys or runs away, they drive a ring through her forearm and chain her to the house. This is a diverse planet and our customs are wide and varied.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 5/8/2016 4:13:54 PM   
AtUrCervix


Posts: 2111
Joined: 1/15/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ParadoxicalMind

As someone submissive who has grown up in a society where men are expected to act dominant, strong, unmoved, and are expected to hide their emotions and conceal their weaknesses, I'd argue that the very notion of a man submitting to a woman is a tabboo.

What do you think?


I think you stated your opinion.

(And misspelled Taboo).

(in reply to ParadoxicalMind)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 5/8/2016 5:10:56 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ParadoxicalMind

As someone submissive who has grown up in a society where men are expected to act dominant, strong, unmoved, and are expected to hide their emotions and conceal their weaknesses, I'd argue that the very notion of a man submitting to a woman is a tabboo.

What do you think?



The times are a-changing. Dont worry what anyone thinks and just be yourself.

(in reply to ParadoxicalMind)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/13/2016 7:32:10 PM   
ForgetToRemember


Posts: 48
Joined: 5/6/2012
Status: offline 		I think someone already mentioned this, but being submissive is frowned upon by both sexes - at least in the Western world. This is because submission implies inequity such as being powerless. This of course is not necessarily true - especially when it comes to D/s. Anyone like Awareness who thinks that ruthless competition is a good thing hasn't thought things through. Might = right is the most pathetic ethical argument ever.

It makes everyone's life worse off in absolute terms. So the ones who are at the top are worse than those who are at the top in literally any other social order than might = right.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/14/2016 8:25:23 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ParadoxicalMind
As someone submissive who has grown up in a society where men are expected to act dominant, strong, unmoved, and are expected to hide their emotions and conceal their weaknesses, I'd argue that the very notion of a man submitting to a woman is a tabboo.

What do you think?

What I think is that societies which have strong gender roles run into these sorts of problems when reality refuses to conform. What I can tell you is that Carol doesn't find it particularly easy to acknowledge the fact that she obeys her husband in public. In general, I find it easiest to publicly acknowledge the roles in our marriage but that's to be expected. I'm the dominant one.


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(in reply to ParadoxicalMind)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/14/2016 9:48:13 AM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember

I think someone already mentioned this, but being submissive is frowned upon by both sexes - at least in the Western world. This is because submission implies inequity such as being powerless. This of course is not necessarily true - especially when it comes to D/s. Anyone like Awareness who thinks that ruthless competition is a good thing hasn't thought things through. Might = right is the most pathetic ethical argument ever.
I haven't made a value judgement about it, I've simply pointed out the way the world is.

Why do you think we have the societies we do? Do you know what happened to all the peace-loving civilisations in the world? They're dead, ground to dust by the strong and ruthless. Strength is what rules the world, not "ethical arguments". Try engaging in an ethical argument with a horde of Mongols riding in from the horizon. I can assure you, it doesn't last long.

quote:


It makes everyone's life worse off in absolute terms. So the ones who are at the top are worse than those who are at the top in literally any other social order than might = right.
"Worse"? That depends. The ultimate judgement of any society depends on the level of happiness for its people. And being happy requires you to defend yourself from enemies, both from within and without.

You can go off and start a cult of peaceniks in the middle-eastern desert if you wish, but you'll die out within a generation.


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(in reply to ForgetToRemember)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/18/2016 2:58:35 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		It's only Tabboo if you believe it to be. Although, you should think about how many times you've heard men around you refer to wives or girlfriends as "The Boss" and the classic tales of handing over the majority of their paycheck to "The Boss" on payday or needing to consult with "The Boss" first. Really though, you shouldn't care what other people think unless it enhances desired feelings of Humiliation or whatever else.

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(in reply to ParadoxicalMind)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/27/2016 4:09:03 PM   
lthrpup


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		A greater awareness of dominant women would reveal that they do value submissive men. The D/s orientation is just one of many traits. Submissive men come in all varieties of social standing and competence—just like dominant men—just like vanilla men.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/27/2016 4:23:00 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
What I can tell you is that Carol doesn't find it particularly easy to acknowledge the fact that she obeys her husband in public.



I totally get that. Most of my friends totally believe that a relationship should be 50/50 (when in reality very few actually are) and don't get that I'm perfectly happy with M being the leader in our relationship. Stay at home Mothers used to get the same attitude. I think a lot of people think that feminism means that women have to be an equal decision maker or in control, rather than having Feminism mean that you're in a role that makes you happy.

So, yeah, I get some weird looks when say I need to check with M before I make a decision.


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(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/27/2016 5:55:26 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


Posts: 5490
Status: offline 		I have found that people don't actually believe me when I tell them I do what the Fella says, or when I tell them I am kinky; they just assume I am joking.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/27/2016 6:03:57 PM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline 		LOL. You must not live in my neck of the woods. Women are expected to be kick-ass and the men stand around at parties and proudly proclaim how short of a leash their wives have them on. AND THESE ARE THE VANILLAS!!! I wrote a long journal entry about the fact that I as a sub woman have to remain deeply in the closet lest it get out and there be a planned intervention of neighbors, coworkers, other soccer moms...who would be dragging me to Dr Phil or group therapy to address my "obvious" self esteem issues.

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/27/2016 11:50:36 PM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lthrpup

A greater awareness of dominant women would reveal that they do value submissive men. The D/s orientation is just one of many traits. Submissive men come in all varieties of social standing and competence—just like dominant men—just like vanilla men.


This.

And as @OsideGirl said, it does matter HOW you show your submissiveness (or not) in public. Too much submissiveness from any gender in public, and people will start clicking their tongues.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/28/2016 8:06:19 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I think trying to fit a complicated personality into one word is impossible and foolish to assume what is submissive to one person is to another. That said i do understand the need for general classifications as a guide post to open conversation.

Reading the posts here i see a few women insinuating a submissive that only wants to be submissive in the bedroom is somehow not what a true submissive should be. I believe they are wrong and being narrow minded and elitist. This very attitude goes against an open lifestyle we all seek and desire. They have an idea of what a submissive should be to them and they have every right to seek that type of person... But they should understand that there is nothing wrong with other agreements and accommodations between people.

Otherwise...Two or more people need to talk... be honest about their needs and desires... if they are acceptable to all then that relationship is no less correct than any other. Everyone is different along with their needs and should be accepted for what they are not what we want them to be.

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ParadoxicalMind)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/28/2016 1:41:14 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

LOL. You must not live in my neck of the woods. Women are expected to be kick-ass and the men stand around at parties and proudly proclaim how short of a leash their wives have them on. AND THESE ARE THE VANILLAS!!! I wrote a long journal entry about the fact that I as a sub woman have to remain deeply in the closet lest it get out and there be a planned intervention of neighbors, coworkers, other soccer moms...who would be dragging me to Dr Phil or group therapy to address my "obvious" self esteem issues.
Christ, where do you live? California?

Sounds like you're describing the Liberal heartland where the emasculation of men and the rise of feminism are cherished ideals. Where men are pussies and women shout "girl power" as they peg their submissive husbands.

That's one of the things I always hated about "Everyone Loves Raymond" - every man in that show was a buffoon and Ray Ramone was a fucking pussy to boot.




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Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/28/2016 1:51:56 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

What I can tell you is that Carol doesn't find it particularly easy to acknowledge the fact that she obeys her husband in public.




In the (almost) year that we've been married, I've found it much easier than I ever expected. My mother, in particular, seemed oddly delighted that I can't spend money without his approval. I do think many of the people in my life simply know the kind of woman I am and so, by extension, they know the kind of man I'm with. But really, since I've been more open about saying "I defer to my husband" (in one form or another) I've met no resistance.



< Message edited by Kaliko -- 7/28/2016 1:53:10 PM >

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/28/2016 5:37:52 PM   
TieMeInKnottss


Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

LOL. You must not live in my neck of the woods. Women are expected to be kick-ass and the men stand around at parties and proudly proclaim how short of a leash their wives have them on. AND THESE ARE THE VANILLAS!!! I wrote a long journal entry about the fact that I as a sub woman have to remain deeply in the closet lest it get out and there be a planned intervention of neighbors, coworkers, other soccer moms...who would be dragging me to Dr Phil or group therapy to address my "obvious" self esteem issues.
Christ, where do you live? California?

Sounds like you're describing the Liberal heartland where the emasculation of men and the rise of feminism are cherished ideals. Where men are pussies and women shout "girl power" as they peg their submissive husbands.

That's one of the things I always hated about "Everyone Loves Raymond" - every man in that show was a buffoon and Ray Ramone was a fucking pussy to boot.




Yeah, sometimes feels that way but, not CA....MD not too far from DC. I live in an area where most of the women are highly educated, highly successful and assertive. The scariest ones were the SAHM-- my MOMS club felt like a combo of "Survivor" and " Lord of the Flies"

I have often joked that an interracial, gay couple who decide to raise their adopted child as a Jewish Muslim are more socially accepted and defended around here than, me, a submissive female. The general consensus are that these "doormat" women have obviously been abused by their fathers and are "pitied" because they have not been empowered enough to get the help they need.

The worst thing is that EVERYONE wants dominant women. OkC, POF... Every man who has dominant personality traits are only interested in dating women who are alphas. Sigh...nobody since the 1950s has wanted a female with a submissive PERSONALITY! Now they are quite happy to find women who are sexually submissive as long as they turn the assertiveness back on outside the bedroom.

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/29/2016 5:53:02 AM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Reading the posts here i see a few women insinuating a submissive that only wants to be submissive in the bedroom is somehow not what a true submissive should be. I believe they are wrong and being narrow minded and elitist. This very attitude goes against an open lifestyle we all seek and desire. They have an idea of what a submissive should be to them and they have every right to seek that type of person... But they should understand that there is nothing wrong with other agreements and accommodations between people.


From my perspective, I don't read that at all. What I am reading is the overall belief that certain types of private submissive behaviors are not appropriate to force on the general and non-consenting public.

Period.

Male or female.

But then, you might be right. It certainly is not what I was saying, though.

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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Submissive women are socially acceptable. Submissiv... - 7/29/2016 8:26:12 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Reading the posts here i see a few women insinuating a submissive that only wants to be submissive in the bedroom is somehow not what a true submissive should be. I believe they are wrong and being narrow minded and elitist. This very attitude goes against an open lifestyle we all seek and desire. They have an idea of what a submissive should be to them and they have every right to seek that type of person... But they should understand that there is nothing wrong with other agreements and accommodations between people.


From my perspective, I don't read that at all. What I am reading is the overall belief that certain types of private submissive behaviors are not appropriate to force on the general and non-consenting public.

Period.

Male or female.

But then, you might be right. It certainly is not what I was saying, though.

It certainly wasn't what I was saying either.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to NookieNotes)
Profile   Post #: 40
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