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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 5/19/2016 2:40:28 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Bonobos are considered amongst our closest relatives in the animal kingdom. We out-competed and out-evolved them.




Yes they are, and no, we did not.

Recent genome analysis leads to a conclusion that our last common ancestors lived about 6-7 million years ago. Since then human evolution went on, but so did theirs (both Pan species) although in different ways. It is a common misassumption that more "primitive" species of whatever kind at some time came to an evolutionary standstill. Some species or even orders (like for example sharks, crocodiles, nautilus, horseshoe crabs) reach a near-to optimum of adaption to their habitats at some early stage so that at least the external appearances appear unchanged for long periods. This does not exclude further evolutionary adaptions without externally visible consequences.

The "out-evolution" is not yet decided between humans and bonobos btw.
Bonobos seem to be immune to Simian immunodeficiency virusses (SIV which is most likely the same as HIV) while we (as well as chimpanzees) are not. If humans will not eat them all to extinction before the score might look different after a few more AIDS waves.
Nobody yet knows why they are immune but it might be something they developed during their more recent evolution apart from chimpanzees and humans.

So they're the threatened species, whereas we have to restrain ourselves in order to not wipe out every species on the planet, and you think THEY may still out-evolve us?

I consider that... unlikely.


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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 5/21/2016 3:20:49 PM   
DerbyshireCpl


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Status: offline 		Then why aren't they?

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 5/21/2016 5:41:31 PM   
blnymph


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Status: offline 		maybe they are, but not telling you and me about it all the time ...

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 5/21/2016 8:42:28 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

and you think THEY may still out-evolve us?

I think Humanity is actually an evolutionary dead end, just one more of nature's failures.

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 5/23/2016 1:31:36 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

P.S. In case you didn't understand the implications - those tribal groups with matriarchal societies are largely dead because they had the shit kicked out of them by male-dominated societies.

Evolution in action.


Ah, one of the classic intellectual cul-de-sacs that MRA types like to pursue. It's very easy to draw simplistic conclusions from the past, but unless you apply some critical thinking you are apt to completely miss the most important points.

Environment is a huge driver for evolution, and many extinctions have occurred because the environment has changed more quickly than the threatened species can evolve.

Alas, MRA types don't seem to have grasped that the context in which Homo Sapiens exists has changed a tad since the stone age, and those traits of aggression and physical strength that saw the emergence of patriarchy are increasingly a hindrance to our survival...

Given that biological evolution trails far behind the evolution of our environment, we have to fill the gap with a little bit of intellectual evolution... something that a few people are demonstrably incapable of. Skills related to collaboration, compromise, empathy and long term strategy are more crucial to the survival of homo sapiens. These skills are very evidently sorely lacking in some.

And... evolution will not be kind to them.


Well given that intelligence in animal species is a fatal mutation as reflected by every comparison and that even Neanderthal only lasted according to many, about 200,000 years and the fact that Homo sapiens have only been around about 43-45,000 years, that because of the rather obvious refutation of homo sapien's assumed intellectual and sociological ascendancy, it is becoming evermore evident that [he] is likely to...never catch up. RE: That hindrance to our survival. So what's left then, are all of those...'other' animal species.

Unless of course the New World Order does indeed succeed and manage to kill about 7 billion of us, what will remain will be about a few hundred million lords and peasants, having then successfully regressed back to mankind's original sociological advancement of...slavery over cannibalism.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/23/2016 1:36:08 AM >

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 5/23/2016 8:23:26 AM   
WhoreMods


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Status: offline 		If we're lucky. Sadly, that could turn out to be the best case scenario.

As Dizzy says, it's debatable that the kind of intelligence we have is proving to be a survival trait in the long run. Most animals that destroy their environment suffer from catastrophic die offs that stop their population getting out of hand enough to cause any permanent damage, and so rendering their ecological niche untenable. We seem to have defeated these sorts of checks and balances and have fucked up our environment in a lot of ways that can't be fixed as a result.

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 5/23/2016 1:46:22 PM   
crumpets


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
We seem to have defeated these sorts of checks and balances and have fucked up our environment in a lot of ways that can't be fixed as a result.


On the other hand, we're the only ones that can ward off an EXTERNAL disaster (e.g., gamma ray bursts, asteroid impact, etc.).

So, as always, humans are the enigma.

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 5/25/2016 9:20:32 AM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
We seem to have defeated these sorts of checks and balances and have fucked up our environment in a lot of ways that can't be fixed as a result.


On the other hand, we're the only ones that can ward off an EXTERNAL disaster (e.g., gamma ray bursts, asteroid impact, etc.).




Are you sure? From what I read about all the ideas in circulation nobody has yet the means so far to prevent an asteroid impact - and the latest gamma ray bursts were rather caused by man than prevented ...

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 5/29/2016 11:11:41 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
We seem to have defeated these sorts of checks and balances and have fucked up our environment in a lot of ways that can't be fixed as a result.


On the other hand, we're the only ones that can ward off an EXTERNAL disaster (e.g., gamma ray bursts, asteroid impact, etc.).




Are you sure? From what I read about all the ideas in circulation nobody has yet the means so far to prevent an asteroid impact - and the latest gamma ray bursts were rather caused by man than prevented ...
There's a crap-load of progress being made in materials science that is, quite frankly, almost spooky. Hydrophobic coatings are the least of it. While fusion power is still 50 years away, there's a continual progression in both our understanding and capability in the fields of quantum computing, genetics and microbiology which is going to force us to confront big social questions which have heretofore been the domain of science fiction.


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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 6/5/2016 12:29:10 PM   
Cell


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

and you think THEY may still out-evolve us?

I think Humanity is actually an evolutionary dead end, just one more of nature's failures.

Humanity appears to me to be a beginning rather than a dead end. When taken to it's extremes, as we're doing now... human kind gives rise to a kind of super organism, the opposition of individual complexity cancels itself out and when viewed from the outside the only thing clearly expressed is our collective consumption, survival... ironic that the ultimate expression of humanity isn't our art or music or ethics but the instinct of the most basic slime crawling across the surface of a planet, however where we differ from say an ant nest is our science and that's the beginning I was referring to. With humanity's electromagnetic, magnetic, nuclear potentials etc... life begins to breach the macrocosmic realm into the cosmic. Life beyond the natural 'world'.

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 6/5/2016 12:47:57 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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Status: offline 		I think we are going to be the cause of our own extinction.

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 6/5/2016 12:50:10 PM   
WhoreMods


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Joined: 5/6/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cell


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

and you think THEY may still out-evolve us?

I think Humanity is actually an evolutionary dead end, just one more of nature's failures.

Humanity appears to me to be a beginning rather than a dead end. When taken to it's extremes, as we're doing now... human kind gives rise to a kind of super organism, the opposition of individual complexity cancels itself out and when viewed from the outside the only thing clearly expressed is our collective consumption, survival... ironic that the ultimate expression of humanity isn't our art or music or ethics but the instinct of the most basic slime crawling across the surface of a planet, however where we differ from say an ant nest is our science and that's the beginning I was referring to. With humanity's electromagnetic, magnetic, nuclear potentials etc... life begins to breach the macrocosmic realm into the cosmic. Life beyond the natural 'world'.


The Singularity, right?
I always thought that line was just The Rapture for SF fans, if I'm honest...

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 6/5/2016 1:28:48 PM   
TallClevDom


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Status: offline 		If you have to tell everyone that you're in charge, you're not.

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 6/5/2016 1:31:48 PM   
Cell


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Status: offline 		Well that's fitting since this conversation is basically the storyline of Planet of the Apes lol
I've heard a few different things described when people talk about the 'Singularity', I'm probably not talking about that depending on your definition... What I am talking about is when I look at roads I can't help but see veins, when I look at the internet I can't help but see a nervous system and I can't help but wonder just as spider webs and beaver dams seem to be an expression of a single cell, I see the fundimental expressions of life in almost all we create and I wonder if it's all actually out of our control.

As for us going extinct. (Dizzy) You're probably right. To my knowledge most of our direct genetic ancestors have gone extinct, but they weren't an evolutionary dead end, they were a link in the chain, a page of our story. Humanity may well become a thing of the past but I think our story will continue.

< Message edited by Cell -- 6/5/2016 2:05:50 PM >

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 6/5/2016 4:00:27 PM   
ThatDizzyChick


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quote:

Humanity may well become a thing of the past but I think our story will continue.

I completely disagree. I suspect that by the time we are done with the planet the Permian extinction will look like a walk in the park.

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 7/12/2016 12:12:58 AM   
ForgetToRemember


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Status: offline 		Wow, Awareness. YOU are the one that are not 'at all clued up on how the natural world works'

Seriously, I'm guessing you were never taught evolution? The fact that you are simplifying this so much, tells me a resounding NO! The fact that you are insulting men who don't agree with you is pretty pathetic.

Let me put it this way, so that your simplistic brain may understand why you cannot do the comparison that you are doing:

Humans and Bonobos 'grew up' in different places. Therefore, your claim that humans were better than bonobos, does not really make sense. You need to compare apples to apples...

So, imagine if Bonobos and Humans switched places in evolutionary history. That is, primitive Bonobos 'grew up' where primitive Humans ACTUALLY did. Get it now? You see, in evolution (and biology in general), there's this little thing call the ENVIRONMENT.

The reason why literally everything appears so perfectly fit to its environment has just a little to do with the fact that the ENVIRONMENT is kinda important to how a species lives and reproduces. Seriously...you are insulting people who actually know the REASON why Humans 'out evolved' Bonobos.

As for female lead societies in nature - I have bad news for you. Most colonies and large groups are matriarchies.

< Message edited by ForgetToRemember -- 7/12/2016 12:14:40 AM >

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RE: human evolution: women could have been in charge - 7/12/2016 12:44:56 PM   
ManOeuvre


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Joined: 3/2/2013
Status: offline 		Also,

The last common ancestor that humans shared with chimps (we are not descended from chimps, we are descended from the same thing that chimps are descended from) lived and died long before the chimp/bonobo branching.

< Message edited by ManOeuvre -- 7/12/2016 12:45:00 PM >

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