RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it....

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it....

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it....

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 8:47:43 AM

Edwird

Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrent

But for those that want to argue the existence of God, here is a challenge for you. Prove to me that air exists.

Oh! What a dagger to the metaphysical heart that one is!

Well, being that a thermal conductivity detector or a gas chromatography device and the measurements obtained thereby are just figments of our imagination, ignore the millions in sales on those items ...

But in any case, here's an ancient Druid-Hindu-Celtic-JuJu walk-around that uses those devices to come up with in answer to your thoughtful question; http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryfaqs/f/aircomposition.htm

I'd be interested to know how a fire can be lit, or any other kind of combustion can occur, without the oxygen content of air being on hand to let stuff burn...

But god created hellfire (because he loves us right up to the moment he truly hates us, apparently), and if god did that all by himself, who needs air?

(in reply to WhoreMods)

Profile

Post #: 121

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 8:49:39 AM

vincentML

Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

@TDC

quote:

The universe exists because it wants to exist, life exists because it wants to exist, and sentience exists because it wants to exist.

This is the teleological fallacy dressed in different clothing substituting desire or want for god as first cause; the statement presumes something can will itself into being before it exists and has a will to so. I don't think so.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 6/5/2016 9:27:35 AM >

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)

Profile

Post #: 122

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 8:50:57 AM

WhoreMods

Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

Anything which flies or breathes, for a start.
However, if aerodynamics could be dismissed as magic as well, just get a glass of water and a straw, and blow some bubbles. I don't think that would work unless you had something invisible yet palpable in your lungs.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Edwird)

Profile

Post #: 123

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 8:54:04 AM

Edwird

Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

But for those that want to argue the existence of God, here is a challenge for you. Prove to me that air exists.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist ...

"What are you inhaling there, bro?"

(in reply to MasterBrentC)

Profile

Post #: 124

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 9:23:01 AM

Edwird

Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Only because you cannot free yourself from the tiny, constrictive box of magical thinking.

No. I say that because I am in fact thinking entirely scientifically.

Oh please.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

See there simply is zero actual scientific explanation for the emergence of ... life

Just take a first semester geology class before you embarrass yourself further.

In any case, even though I "can't write worth shit," I'm nevertheless able to point out that you missed the required comma after "See."

< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/5/2016 9:27:45 AM >

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)

Profile

Post #: 125

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 10:01:38 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

Anything which flies or breathes, for a start.
However, if aerodynamics could be dismissed as magic as well, just get a glass of water and a straw, and blow some bubbles. I don't think that would work unless you had something invisible yet palpable in your lungs.

bubbles

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to WhoreMods)

Profile

Post #: 126

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 10:10:45 AM

WhoreMods

Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

Bubbles are magic as well?

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Profile

Post #: 127

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 10:15:56 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

have air in them, specially fart bubbles

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to WhoreMods)

Profile

Post #: 128

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 10:20:22 AM

WhoreMods

Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

Indeed. The glass of water and straw thing is a bit more acceptable in company than farting in a swimming pool, though.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Profile

Post #: 129

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 10:21:53 AM

Edwird

Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline

OK, where are we going with this?

Don Ho, or kids in the bath tub?

Tiny bubbles in any case, amirite?

< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/5/2016 10:24:39 AM >

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Profile

Post #: 130

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 11:00:02 AM

blnymph

Posts: 1598
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC
...

But for those that want to argue the existence of God, here is a challenge for you. Prove to me that air exists.

Has been done - and not only once:

Evangelista Torricelli in 1644

Blaise Pascal in 1647

Otto von Guericke in 1663

Daniel Bernoulli ("aerodynamics") in 1738

As you can see: centuries ago ...

Did they not teach you these things at school?

(in reply to MasterBrentC)

Profile

Post #: 131

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 11:07:15 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

I had a pic with the url ready, but now Ive lost it...
sorry all I have to offer today is fun

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Edwird)

Profile

Post #: 132

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 11:11:50 AM

Staleek

Posts: 361
Joined: 6/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

I think it was George Bernard Shaw who observed that if anything could be said to be proven about God, it was that He really likes beetles, wasn't it?

As far as death and entropy goes, no question that everything needs to break down eventually. My point about the human body, though is that it often tends to break down piecemeal, with certain parts packing up catastrophically while the rest of it is still ticking over nicely. This is a really weird approach to built in obsolescence that implies even incompetence or a lack of forethought on the part of the designer.

But that is the beauty of it all. Life is actually perfect in its imperfection. An organism doesn't stop all at once, it slowly degrades until it is too weak to flee from a predator or is too slow to hunt for food. If life is driven whatever is behind it is genius because of these flaws.

As an analogy - perfect video game AI is really easy to code. It's easy to make a bot that will fight perfectly, block instantly, shoot with perfect accuracy and utilize resources perfectly. The challenge for game developers is to create an intelligence which is flawed enough to compete with humans without being too easy. Life works without catastrophic bugs, lock ups, or without supreme creatures which dominate (even humans have predators which hunt us in our artificial environments, ask anyone with AIDS). It works very well, I can see why many consider it to be a reason to believe in something beyond corporeal existience.

Having said that there is absolutely nothing about nature that suggests god is a male, bearded, white dude with a black persons voice who sits on a cloud deciding to burn people for eternity for not repenting ten minutes before they got run over in the street. And I've certainly never seen anything to suggest that dark skinned Middle-Eastern man who opposed white western occupiers in his homeland (such as Abu Musab Al-Zakarwi, Osama Bin-Laden, or Jesus Christ) have any special connection to such a hypothetical entity.

< Message edited by Staleek -- 6/5/2016 11:13:53 AM >

(in reply to WhoreMods)

Profile

Post #: 133

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 11:30:11 AM

WhoreMods

Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

I've always thought using the term "AI" to describe a collection of simplistic tropes in a video game is a bit off, myself.

Point taken, though.

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to Staleek)

Profile

Post #: 134

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 11:34:49 AM

ThatDizzyChick

Posts: 5490
Status: offline

quote:

Because the concept of awareness requires recognition, the concept of determining there is a there...there. That requires the electro-chemical activity in a brain to create the thought required to conceptualize that recognition.

Really? And where is an oak tree's brain?

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Profile

Post #: 135

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 11:42:00 AM

ThatDizzyChick

Posts: 5490
Status: offline

quote:

The "Big Bang" theory, when was the last time a huge explosion created anything?

Ah, well there's where you went astray. The so-called "Big Bang" was not actually an explosion but rather the rapid expansion of a singularity.
And while I agree that one cannot discuss this topic without taking into account religion, one need not push any given religion or attempt to prove the rightness or wrongness of any religion.

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to MasterBrentC)

Profile

Post #: 136

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 11:56:27 AM

Staleek

Posts: 361
Joined: 6/1/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

The "Big Bang" theory, when was the last time a huge explosion created anything?

One of these two men is responsible for the Big Bang theory. Can you guess who it was?

Given the origins of the theory it is safe to say that religious people can believe in both god and the Big Bang theory quite easily.

Also, you're not quite up to speed on the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang theory, contrary to popular belief, is NOT a creation of the universe theory. It concerns the history of the universe from the very first zeptoseconds after the matter and energy the universe is made of came into being. It does NOT concern itself with where that energy and matter come from.

< Message edited by Staleek -- 6/5/2016 11:57:21 AM >

(in reply to MasterBrentC)

Profile

Post #: 137

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 4:08:23 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

I think it was George Bernard Shaw who observed that if anything could be said to be proven about God, it was that He really likes beetles, wasn't it?

“An inordinate fondness for beetles.” That was the reply of J.B.S. Haldane, a British scientific polymath of the early 20th century, when he was asked if there were anything that could be concluded about God from the study of natural history.

http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21646647-why-are-there-so-many-species-coleptera-beetlemania

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to WhoreMods)

Profile

Post #: 138

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 4:14:40 PM

sloguy02246

Posts: 534
Joined: 11/5/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Staleek

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterBrentC

The "Big Bang" theory, when was the last time a huge explosion created anything?

One of these two men is responsible for the Big Bang theory. Can you guess who it was?

Given the origins of the theory it is safe to say that religious people can believe in both god and the Big Bang theory quite easily.

Also, you're not quite up to speed on the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang theory, contrary to popular belief, is NOT a creation of the universe theory. It concerns the history of the universe from the very first zeptoseconds after the matter and energy the universe is made of came into being. It does NOT concern itself with where that energy and matter come from.

The answer is either Albert Einstein or Jarrod from Subway?

(in reply to Staleek)

Profile

Post #: 139

RE: Let's try leaving religion out of it.... - 6/5/2016 4:58:01 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Vince do you think our species is capable of understanding infinity and its obvious implications? We already discussed time and the two of these together I believe will be forever beyond anything but wild speculation by your beloved science.

Is space with no limiting dimension or border...time with no beginning or ending any less unbelievable and without proof than a universal intelligence? Both are incomprehensible to our human minds but if one is possible the other cannot be denied with certainty.

Your denial of the possibility of a universal intelligence is my bone to pick with you not your belief in the infallibility of observable science.

Otherwise I think it is reasonable to doubt... I do at times as well...but it is not reasonable to claim science has any say or proof in denying the possibility of...for lack of another word... God.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/5/2016 5:06:44 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to vincentML)

Profile

Post #: 140