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Aftercare - 7/21/2006 12:31:07 AM   
thegunslinger


Posts: 81
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Status: offline 		Just curious to see reasons why a Dom/Domme would set up rule with punishments, then punish and not use aftercare.

Thank You


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"The essence of domination is to take another's power and then use it for mutual pleasure." - John Warren
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 1:42:31 AM   
TheShadows


Posts: 403
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Southern Illinois
Status: offline 		I do talk with the sub/slave after the punishment is carried out, but it is definitely nowhere near aftercare.  The talking afterwards serves to make sure everyone's over the transgression and can move on.  In my opinion, punishment isn't meant to be enjoyable or lovey-dovey.  It's meant to teach a lesson.

As always, YMMV...
TheShadows

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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 5:07:47 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		I am loving towards her afterwards while I talk through the reasoning behind My actions, but it is not like aftercare where I cuddle, kiss, etc.  It is discipline, not play.

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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 6:14:44 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		Because it's punishment and not play?


(in reply to thegunslinger)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 6:34:48 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegunslinger

Just curious to see reasons why a Dom/Domme would set up rule with punishments, then punish and not use aftercare.

Thank You



I don't have a lot to add to what's been said here.

Discipline and/or punishments are set up to teach the submissive what was wrong about their behavior and, hopefully, set in their mind the right behavior.  While it is necessary to talk after the discipline or punishment and make sure that things are understood, that the lesson was taken to heart and that things are ready to go on, I do not find it necessary to get all 'cootchey-coo' with my submissive after correction.

Not sure where this idea came from although it sounds remarkably like the mindset of  'nobody loses, every one wins...let's not have a champion, everyone should get a trophy...you should not yell at the recruits, drill sergeant; well, you can yell but don't call them names because you'll damage their poor little self-esteem.'  Self-esteem is earned by doing things right, not by doing things wrong and then, because you've done the punishment right, being fawned over. 

(in reply to thegunslinger)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 6:56:29 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		Shrugs.........if someone merited punishment, I am not going to reassure them afterwards.

I want them to be alone to think about the aftereffects, and what they did.

In other words, I want to create a strong negative association to it in thier minds-so they avoid it in the future. If I make it like "play" that's not going to happen, and I have defeated a tool in my arsenal.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 7:02:28 AM   
deltadawn


Posts: 224
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline 		Punishment in this house is simply that, punishment.   He talks to me, reassures me that all is over with now, but aftercare is saved for the good times never for the bad.

dawn

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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 7:35:29 AM   
IndigoDadesi


Posts: 185
Status: offline 		I always use aftercare after punishment or play because I dont want to emotionally scar my boy. The punishment is a punishment so that we can move past whatever it is he's done wrong. If I neglected aftercare I would be telling him that I am holding a grudge even after the punishment, or worse, that I dont care about him.

However my idea of aftercare seems to be a bit different than what Ive read so far in this thread. Im not the kissy cuddly, coo-coo type of person I guess. Aftercare to me consists of letting him come down while resting with his head in my lap and then checking his welts to make sure he doesnt need medical attention of any kind (which, if Ive done my job right, he doesnt). If we are playing we may cuddle after that or go relax on the couch or take a shower together, etc. and if its punishment we go do whatever we were doing before hand, which usually means he goes to fix his mistake.


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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 7:48:04 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		I rarelyuse any sort of corporal punishment. I feel that a wrong doer does not deserve the catharsis of such relief.

I would rather that they use thier guilt in atonement for the misdeeds.

(in reply to IndigoDadesi)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 7:57:05 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Daddy does not use physical punishments against me for wrong doing. I may get my internet taken away or something like this, but he does not hit me to punish me. He had a submissive that would try to get punishment through angering him because her former dom used physical punishment. From this experience he learned he did not want to train a submissive to associate pain with punishment or anger (not that the doms posting here punish in anger).

Everyone has different ways of doing things,and I am not inferring others are doing it "wrong", Im just saying what my experience is.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to thegunslinger)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 8:00:55 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegunslinger

Just curious to see reasons why a Dom/Domme would set up rule with punishments, then punish and not use aftercare.

Thank You



Because it is punishment not playing.

I'm assuming you mean physical punishment, right?

Most of my punishments are not physical because I like SM a lot and I don't mix what I like with punishments.

So if someone has written an essay about the attitude they are supposed to have while doing a task, I'll read over it and make comments on it but there's no aftercare other than to say "This is acceptable. Further problems with your attitude will not be." That's not a threat, it is a statement of fact.

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(in reply to thegunslinger)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 8:16:48 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thegunslinger

Just curious to see reasons why a Dom/Domme would set up rule with punishments, then punish and not use aftercare.



Sometimes it's effective to punish and not provide aftercare; it is a time for the servant to reflect upon her transgression. It is an emotionally vivid haunting—a lingering extension of the punishment. Be that as it may, I generally find it more sensible to bring her head into my lap, to pet her and kiss her on her head while she weeps and shivers. This serves as closure to the lesson, and provides a light of positive reinforcement. Like dogs, human animals behave much better with a dash of kindness from their Masters.

(in reply to thegunslinger)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 9:36:29 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
Sometimes it's effective to punish and not provide aftercare; it is a time for the servant to reflect upon her transgression. It is an emotionally vivid haunting—a lingering extension of the punishment. Be that as it may, I generally find it more sensible to bring her head into my lap, to pet her and kiss her on her head while she weeps and shivers. This serves as closure to the lesson, and provides a light of positive reinforcement. Like dogs, human animals behave much better with a dash of kindness from their Masters.

Ditto.

This is one of the questions you should ask or get answered before commiting to someone- how to they employ punishment in their relationship and how do they use aftercare?

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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 10:14:44 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I have never been physically punished (I consider the word "discipline to be used interchangably with the word "play" around here, and I am never sure what people mean when they use the word) but - if I was, I think I'd appreciate some reassurance the person did still care about me, whether it was verbal or physical, or both (but physical sounds nicer). But I guess that's up to them, if it's a punishment. In my past bdsm relationship, I got punished with things like writing assignments or not being phoned, or seen for a week by my Dominant, so this would be all new for me (but that's off the topic).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/21/2006 10:27:35 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 10:26:34 AM   
merrymischief2


Posts: 19
Joined: 4/24/2006
Status: offline 		Now thats just mean and nasty.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I rarelyuse any sort of corporal punishment. I feel that a wrong doer does not deserve the catharsis of such relief.

I would rather that they use thier guilt in atonement for the misdeeds.

(in reply to Caretakr)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 10:29:02 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I have never been physically punished (I consider the word "discipline to be used as to interchnge with the word "play" around here, I am never sure what people mena when they use the word) but - if I was, I think I'd appreciate some reassurance the person did still care about me, whether it was verbal or physical, pr both (but physical sounds nicer). But I guess that's up to them, if it's a punishment. 

- Susan


I had a major problem with these concepts when I was looking for a mate that was involved with WIITWD. I even posted a thread about it when I first signed up on CM... The concept of strictness and punishment and discipline, because I found many profiles of dominants that emailed me talked about being "strict" and corporal "punishment". I figured this was not what I thought would be good for me, so I avoided men that made this one of the first points of conversations with me. I figured that if they were so into punishing they put it in their profile or emailed me about it, it probably wasn't the relationship I would grow from.

It became one of the first questions I came to ask, what they thought of strictness and punishment, because I wanted to weed out the ones that thought it was a good way of controlling me. I do not choose my own punishments, do not misunderstand me, but I was careful to pick someone that wouldn't hit me to discipline me. To me discpline is not play, it is a way of teaching me to be pleasing, and if the goal of discipline is correction, the last thing that would motivate me to correct myself to be more pleasing is to hit me. I was hit in my first marriage to control me, and I will never let another man hit me to control me.. take away something, fine, but hitting me is not going to do anything but get me to pack my bags and leave. My parents hit me only a handful of times to correct me and usually because I was being a dare devil and it was out of fear for my saftey, not anger. They managed to control me pretty well without hitting me, so why would  dom need to?

This is just my thoughts, and I know corporal punishment is not abusive to others, and it works well for them.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 10:39:12 AM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Just curious to see reasons why a Dom/Domme would set up rule with punishments, then punish and not use aftercare.


In my relationship, aftercare following a bona fide punishment would send conflicting signals.  A punishment is to correct bad behavior.  Aftercare is the touchy-feely good stuff that comes after a scene (if, in fact, I need it).  If the Kaptin were to do any kind of aftercare following a punishment, it would diminish the impact of the punishment; thus rendering it completely ineffective.

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Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to thegunslinger)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 10:39:40 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Very good post, julia, you are right. I generally too, find I thrive under caring conditions, and (even with a Sadist, truly), I think how caring and loving someone is depends on their personality and general philosophy about how to build a relationship - and that is important to me.

I, too, see a lot of profiles that focus mostly on "disciplining the submissive" only, with little talk about what they are looking for in terms of someone's personality, or what they think bdsm really is for them. And when I see that, I sometimes wonder if these are the fly-by-night "kink tourists" I've read about, or if they actually want a real bdsm relationship with someone, sometimes. Punishment isn't the same thing as "play", but some seem to think so.

I am glad you mentioned this - we can't be the only ones who've been confused by this when dealing with either real or potential partners, at times. 

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/21/2006 10:50:28 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 11:25:00 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Very good post, julia, you are right. I generally too, find I thrive under caring conditions, and (even with a Sadist, truly), I think how caring and loving someone is depends on their personality and general philosophy about how to build a relationship - and that is important to me.

I, too, see a lot of profiles that focus mostly on "disciplining the submissive" only, with little talk about what they are looking for in terms of someone's personality, or what they think bdsm really is for them. And when I see that, I sometimes wonder if these are the fly-by-night "kink tourists" I've read about, or if they actually want a real bdsm relationship with someone, sometimes. Punishment isn't the same thing as "play", but some seem to think so.

I am glad you mentioned this - we can't be the only ones who've been confused by this when dealing with either real or potential partners, at times.
- Susan 

You note confusion over the words punishment and discipline and play.  I'm sure there's others that have the same confusion or something similar and I think that part of that comes from a difference in viewpoints between dominants as to what does constitute play, discipline, and punishment.  Everyone has their own version.

For me, discipline is along the lines of me noting an error, calling the error to the submissive's attention, discussing it with them and telling them why it is an error for me and within the D/s relationship that exists between us, and what I expect to see done to correct it.  Depending on severity of the error, whether or not the error is in regards to something specifically discussed before during the course of our relationship, if the error is a repeat of a previously discussed error, and the submissive's intent/purpose/line of thinking when they committed the error, there may also be punishment handed out along with the discipline.  Punishment from me is never physical.  I usually try to make the punishment fit the crime.  If they've been a smart mouth all day, have been warned against it and continue doing so, they may find themselves gagged or duct taped for awhile (as an example).  The only time I cannot picture myself matching up punishment to crime would be if a submissive tried to physically assault me.  I think...though I do not know for sure, since it has never happened...that I would remove myself from the situation. 

I know that there are a lot of dominants that like to bring discipline or punishment into play but I think that they do so as part of the scene; the discipline or punishments going on within the scene are not real punishments or discipline for real transgressions, they are play punishments/discipline for play transgressions.  Since I don't like physical actions that are used for fun associated with punishment, I tend not to do this.  My choice...others don't see it this way or have differing ways of including it.

I hope I've cleared it up from at least one dominant's perspective...hopefully there are others also approach discipline, punishment, play along these or similar lines.  (or am I an oddball?)


(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Aftercare - 7/21/2006 11:39:15 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Susan, you hit that nail right on the head!
I've seen Doms at partys who were just plain mean when spanking or punishing their subs or slaves! Like they were in a "contest" with the other Doms present to see who could inflict the most pain!
It's not at all about "being mean".
Some confuse abuse with Dominance apparently. Apples and Oranges!
To me, punishment might consist of tieing my sub to the bed and gagging her for a long period of time while leaving a wand vibrator on the bed where she can see it and leaving her there for an hour or two to "think about it."
Or having her in that position and telling her "not to move at all" as I use the vibrator on her which is extremely hard to do.
If she moves I stop and leave the room for ten minutes.
As for aftercare I like to tell her how sexy she was and hugs are always wanted and nice.
So, I think you can incorporate some sort of "punishment" into the "play" part as well as above.
And of course any Dom should always convey to His sub or slave the fact that He cares about her.
I don't understand how anyone could be in a relationship like that and not care deeply about their sub or slave. That's what I like about this type of relationship, to me it's "deeper" than a vanilla type relationship.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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