RE: RRE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim

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WhoreMods -> RE: RRE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 4:36:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blank101 Privileged white males have it rough in prison, so he's scared of what will happen to his son. Some might see that possibility as karma enforcing a balance for his son's own actions.

Blank101 -> RE: RRE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 5:19:15 AM)
Rightfully so. Unfortunately the six months of karma is hardly a just sentence. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/what-makes-the-stanford-rape-case-so-unusual/486374/ I hope that this event does not out to be just another blip on the radar of sexual violence. Perhaps we'll have better advocacy against sexual violence, one day.

WhoreMods -> RE: RRE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 5:21:43 AM)
He'll be out in less than three months with that sentence, never mind six.

tweakabelle -> RE: RRE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 5:57:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blank101 quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle In RL, a few people have commented to me about the behaviour of the rapist's father. They admired his loyalty to his son and commended his efforts to obtain a reduced or softer sentence for the son. The father you may recall asked the judge not to throw his son's life down the tubes for the sake of "twenty minutes of action". I was appalled by these observations. It seemed to me that the father's attempt at minimising the rape and its impact on the victim might tell us where the son developed his misogyny. I wonder what kind of standards did this father impart to his son. If he is able to persuade himself that the son's behaviour ie his son raping an unconscious girl amounted to nothing more than "twenty minutes of action", doesn't that tell us a lot about his attitude towards women. Perhaps the reason the father was so motivated to come to his son's defence might be, in part, a reflection of his guilt over his very obvious failure to impart civilised standards of behaviour towards women ...? Or is this too generous a reading of the situation? I doubt he came to his son's defense because he felt guilty for his failure to teach his son how to treat women. I don't doubt that he feels he failed as a parent though, and if anything that's why he came to his sons defense, and of course, his love for his child. Privileged white males have it rough in prison, so he's scared of what will happen to his son. The six month sentencing had nothing to do with the fathers "twenty minutes of action" bullshit excuse, which yes, is appalling and the father should be ashamed. The six month sentencing is simply another testament to our amazing judicial system. [8\|] All this leads to a rather contentious question - to what extent if any does rape and violence against women have its origins in the family? And here we are not necessarily talking about the classically dysfunctional family but ordinary everyday families ..... DV teaches us that violence in the family is far from an abnormal situation, that DV has no identifiable co-relation with class, educational achievement, colour, creed or any of the other standard tools of social analysis. Is sexual violence written into the texture of society at a deep and fundamental level? If so how do we begin to eradicate it?

Staleek -> RE: RRE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 6:29:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Is sexual violence written into the texture of society at a deep and fundamental level? If so how do we begin to eradicate it? Sexual violence isn't, but the treatment of women as objects and as subservient entities that are there to cater to males is very much woven into our culture. Men are basically trained to think of women as objectives rather than as other people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkoMbxHQmuM We've all seen this. Boy meets girl, boy is nice to girl, boy does things for girl, boy now feels entitled to sex. A small but simple thing, but an example of how the social rules of interaction between hetero MM and MF takes on a different dynamic for some. I've actually seen the advanced stage. Ex "friend" who wanted more turns into a douchebag, second male "friend" slides in to provide some comfort and validation by calling out the douchebag, fresh knight in shining armour wants sex as well now. A lot of males, faced with a firm "No. Thanks for helping me decorate but I never said I'd sleep with you for it!", rather than just calling her a "slut" or "whore" (for giving sex to other guys, sex that belongs to him) might be angry and feel indignant enough to not take "no" for an answer. After all, she owes him right! She knew the score, why the hell else did she think he was helping her? I think we're trained to feel like this at the cultural level. Look at movies, even kids movies. Karate Kid, Back to the Future, Gremlins, Indiana Jones. The role of the female is be a grateful prize to reward the male at the end of the movie. Contrast that with movies where a female is the lead. What happened at the end of Maleficent? Or Aliens? Or Mad Max? Now I think about it, I can't recall a single movie where a female lead got the guy at the end of the movie that wasn't some dumb fucking rom-com with a female being "female" in that way Hollywood producers seem to think everyone wants to see (I haven't seen the Hunger Games, what happens there?) Women need to be portrayed more as equals in popular culture. I think it's ok to treat women and men differently, especially if a plot or story or song calls for it, but equal treatment by the art creator is needed. One small step I know, but it's something.

WhoreMods -> RE: RRE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 6:45:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Blank101 quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle In RL, a few people have commented to me about the behaviour of the rapist's father. They admired his loyalty to his son and commended his efforts to obtain a reduced or softer sentence for the son. The father you may recall asked the judge not to throw his son's life down the tubes for the sake of "twenty minutes of action". I was appalled by these observations. It seemed to me that the father's attempt at minimising the rape and its impact on the victim might tell us where the son developed his misogyny. I wonder what kind of standards did this father impart to his son. If he is able to persuade himself that the son's behaviour ie his son raping an unconscious girl amounted to nothing more than "twenty minutes of action", doesn't that tell us a lot about his attitude towards women. Perhaps the reason the father was so motivated to come to his son's defence might be, in part, a reflection of his guilt over his very obvious failure to impart civilised standards of behaviour towards women ...? Or is this too generous a reading of the situation? I doubt he came to his son's defense because he felt guilty for his failure to teach his son how to treat women. I don't doubt that he feels he failed as a parent though, and if anything that's why he came to his sons defense, and of course, his love for his child. Privileged white males have it rough in prison, so he's scared of what will happen to his son. The six month sentencing had nothing to do with the fathers "twenty minutes of action" bullshit excuse, which yes, is appalling and the father should be ashamed. The six month sentencing is simply another testament to our amazing judicial system. [8\|] All this leads to a rather contentious question - to what extent if any does rape and violence against women have its origins in the family? And here we are not necessarily talking about the classically dysfunctional family but ordinary everyday families ..... DV teaches us that violence in the family is far from an abnormal situation, that DV has no identifiable co-relation with class, educational achievement, colour, creed or any of the other standard tools of social analysis. Is sexual violence written into the texture of society at a deep and fundamental level? If so how do we begin to eradicate it? Interesting point. Is it wrong of to have immediately decided reading the victim's statement that the little turd has to be an only child? I certainly hope he doesn't have any sisters, given his dad's attitude.

PeonForHer -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 7:01:08 AM)
quote: Odd thought, right from out of left-field: I remember once arriving at Whitechapel Underground, late at night, with my bike. The platform was empty. A woman came onto the platform, walked all the way up it, and sat next to me. I wondered, 'Does having a bike say "Probably a safe guy?' quote: My guess is it had more to do with you than the bike. Perhaps she could sense you were a good person? I doubt it. She looked intelligent and sane to me. ;) Seriously - I think the practical considerations would have clinched it: I couldn't do anything and get away easily with my bike; plus I'd be easily recognised.

bounty44 -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 7:32:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blank101 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic because its not just her. What do you mean its not just her? She started us in this direction. Lets just end it, giving her and everyone else a chance to stay on topic. both of your positions would be strengthened if the left's propensity for dealing with criticisms of groups wasn't to automatically dismiss them by calling the giver of the criticism some "ist" or "phobe" and instead, actually dealing with the actual criticisms. one hardly, if ever, sees that. and not to derail the topic here at all, but I want to put this somewhere, and its as good a place as any given some of the islam conversation on a number of threads: "Awful: Pakistani Mother Burns Daughter Alive For Marrying The Wrong Person" quote: A woman in Pakistan burned her 17-year-old daughter alive on Wednesday to punish her for marrying against the family's wishes, the latest in a series of so-called "honor killings" that claim the lives of nearly 1,000 women every year in the conservative Muslim country. Police say Zeenat Rafiq's mother, Parveen, tied her to a cot and drenched her with kerosene before lighting her on fire. Neighbors in the congested, working-class neighborhood in the eastern city of Lahore came running when they heard the screams, but family members kept them from entering the house, said Nighat Bibi, who lives nearby. The police eventually arrived and found the charred body near a staircase. They arrested the mother soon thereafter. The victim's husband, Hassan Khan, told reporters the two had been "in love since our school days" but the family had rejected several marriage proposals, forcing them to elope last month. He showed an affidavit of consent signed by his wife before a magistrate. He also showed cellphone photos of a smiling Zeenat wearing a red dress. Sheikh Hammad, a local police official, said Parveen confessed to killing her daughter with the help of her son Ahmar. He quoted the woman as saying "I don't have any regrets." Another police officer, Ibadat Nisar, said the body showed signs of beating and strangulation... Perveen’s younger sister Naseem told AFP: “After killing her daughter, Perveen went out on the street, took off her shawl and started beating herself on her chest, shouting: ‘People! I have killed my daughter for misbehaving and giving our family a bad name.’ Under current laws family members are allowed to forgive the killer, forcing prosecutors to drop even the most watertight case. It often leads to killers walking free in situations where entire families agree that a daughter has brought shame on them. http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/06/09/awful-pakistani-mother-burns-daughter-alive-for-marrying-the-wrong-person-n2175795

Staleek -> RE: RRE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 7:38:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhoreMods quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle All this leads to a rather contentious question - to what extent if any does rape and violence against women have its origins in the family? And here we are not necessarily talking about the classically dysfunctional family but ordinary everyday families ..... DV teaches us that violence in the family is far from an abnormal situation, that DV has no identifiable co-relation with class, educational achievement, colour, creed or any of the other standard tools of social analysis. Is sexual violence written into the texture of society at a deep and fundamental level? If so how do we begin to eradicate it? Interesting point. Is it wrong of to have immediately decided reading the victim's statement that the little turd has to be an only child? I certainly hope he doesn't have any sisters, given his dad's attitude. Wow, I hadn't considered that before but I did automatically think of this kid as an only child as well. But now you've made me think about the family dynamic of men and boys willing to rape. How do their fathers treat their mothers?

tweakabelle -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 7:51:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 and not to derail the topic here at all, but I want to put this somewhere, and its as good a place as any given some of the islam conversation on a number of threads: "Awful: Pakistani Mother Burns Daughter Alive For Marrying The Wrong Person" A woman in Pakistan burned her 17-year-old daughter alive on Wednesday to punish her for marrying against the family's wishes, the latest in a series of so-called "honor killings" that claim the lives of nearly 1,000 women every year in the conservative Muslim country. A gruesome story. I've never heard any one here defend any aspect of 'honour killings'. And you have failed to identify any connection between Islam and this incident. I do hope you are not relying on the discredited claim that Islam sanctions or mandates so-called 'honour killings'. That would be extremely stupid as it is well known that honour killings are a cultural practice prevalent in that part of the world among Muslim Hindu and other communities. Honour killings occur in Christian communities too. From wiki: "According to the UN in 2002: The report of the Special Rapporteur... concerning cultural practices in the family that are violent towards women (E/CN.4/2002/83), indicated that honour killings had been reported in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon (the Lebanese Parliament abolished the Honor killing in August 2011), Morocco, Pakistan, the Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey, Yemen, and other Mediterranean and Persian Gulf countries, and that they had also taken place in western countries such as France, Germany and the United Kingdom, within migrant communities.[90][91] In addition, the United Nations Commission on Human Rights gathered reports from several countries and considering only the countries that submitted reports it was shown that honor killings have occurred in Bangladesh, Great Britain, Brazil, Ecuador, Egypt, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Pakistan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey, and Uganda.[92] [93] According to Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch, the practice of honor killing "goes across cultures and across religions." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing These facts have been posted on these boards many times. I find it impossible to believe that they escaped your attention. So what are you hoping to achieve by posting this report and falsely implying a connection with Islam?

Staleek -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 8:00:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle These facts have been posted on these boards many times. I find it impossible to believe that they failed to gain your attention. So what are you hoping to achieve by posting this report and falsely implying a connection with Islam? He's hoping to move the whole topic away from something he hates (women having equality and the removal of patriarchy as mans special privilege) into something he likes (hatred for a religion that some brown coloured Asians have). For this thread I recommend pointedly ignoring this sort of attention seeking behaviour and not responding.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 11:02:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 both of your positions would be strengthened if the left's propensity for dealing with criticisms of groups wasn't to automatically dismiss them by calling the giver of the criticism some "ist" or "phobe" and instead, actually dealing with the actual criticisms. one hardly, if ever, sees that. and not to derail the topic here at all, but I want to put this somewhere, and its as good a place as any given some of the islam conversation on a number of threads: "Awful: Pakistani Mother Burns Daughter Alive For Marrying The Wrong Person" Seriously, bounty?

blnymph -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 12:22:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It's sad to note the lack of response to this thread. ... @ tweakabelle Forgive me for returning to and commenting this early sigh of yours. I was not sad when I read your post. I hoped that - for once, just for once - this so deeply moving, so honest, so horrifying as well as not hateful message you posted would be left as it is. For whatever reason, whether shame, respect, compassion, or as something to think about just a little longer than usual. Not as another cue for more brown thought vomit. Not as something to pour more dirt over. As you and I and all the others can see my hopes were vain, and maybe unrealistic. After all this is not the first thread I read here. I know what to expect. This thread in my opinion is perhaps the most relevant and most important posted here at least within months. It needs selective reading more than others because it contains not only dirt. There is one really horrible sentence in this admirable girl's statement, even more for those who really know what is behind it: quote: I don't want my body anymore. I wish those who can't imagine what it means, to think about that sentence a little longer than usual. I wish I had her ability to say what needed to be said.

Wayward5oul -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 12:58:28 PM)
The dad was not the only one who made a statement to the court in defense of the rapist. A friend from childhood did as well, and she is now paying for it. https://www.yahoo.com/news/ohio-band-dropped-festival-member-defends-ex-stanford-001206286.html From her letter: "I don't think it's fair to base the fate of the next ten + years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn't remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him," Rasmussen wrote. "I am not blaming her directly for this, because that isn't right."

LadyPact -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 1:18:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul The dad was not the only one who made a statement to the court in defense of the rapist. A friend from childhood did as well, and she is now paying for it. https://www.yahoo.com/news/ohio-band-dropped-festival-member-defends-ex-stanford-001206286.html From her letter: "I don't think it's fair to base the fate of the next ten + years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn't remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him," Rasmussen wrote. "I am not blaming her directly for this, because that isn't right." I appreciate this post. Thank you for putting it up. Yet, I'm disgusted. If there is such a thing as fair, why do we not, as a society, judge people by their actions? I do not feel a bit bad for her, or her band, because she CHOSE to publicly support a rapist. Not one, single shred.

BamaD -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 1:22:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul The dad was not the only one who made a statement to the court in defense of the rapist. A friend from childhood did as well, and she is now paying for it. https://www.yahoo.com/news/ohio-band-dropped-festival-member-defends-ex-stanford-001206286.html From her letter: "I don't think it's fair to base the fate of the next ten + years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn't remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him," Rasmussen wrote. "I am not blaming her directly for this, because that isn't right." The men who caught him in the act, stopped him, detained him, and called the police could have something to do with the fact that he is considered guilty.

WhoreMods -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 1:29:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul "I don't think it's fair to base the fate of the next ten + years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn't remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him," Rasmussen wrote. "I am not blaming her directly for this, because that isn't right." But blaming her indirectly is apparently perfect acceptable. Nice to see that the courage of her convictions in standing up for her old friend hasn't lasted more than thirty seconds after her band started losing bookings as well.

sloguy02246 -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 1:52:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Odd thought, right from out of left-field: I remember once arriving at Whitechapel Underground, late at night, with my bike. The platform was empty. A woman came onto the platform, walked all the way up it, and sat next to me. I wondered, 'Does having a bike say "Probably a safe guy?' quote: My guess is it had more to do with you than the bike. Perhaps she could sense you were a good person? I doubt it. She looked intelligent and sane to me. ;) Seriously - I think the practical considerations would have clinched it: I couldn't do anything and get away easily with my bike; plus I'd be easily recognised. When you first mentioned this, my initial reaction was that she came onto the platform late at night (which already made her apprehensive) and saw the only other person was a guy with a bike on a bench (probably not a threat to her), and thought it prudent to go sit by you in case some ne'er-do-well showed up as it would appear the two of you were together ("safety in numbers," from her perspective).

PeonForHer -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 1:54:25 PM)
quote: I don't want my body anymore. Hard for me to imagine - but god that's so sad.

PeonForHer -> RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim (6/10/2016 2:01:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 When you first mentioned this, my initial reaction was that she came onto the platform late at night (which already made her apprehensive) and saw the only other person was a guy with a bike on a bench (probably not a threat to her), and thought it prudent to go sit by you in case some ne'er-do-well showed up as it would appear the two of you were together ("safety in numbers," from her perspective). Yep. That's also plausible. Once, when walking at night, a woman suddenly appeared next to me and asked me if she could walk with me - she said she'd been jinxed by a man behind her. So we were instantly 'partners', as it were. I think it's good, sometimes, to have that ploy at the ready: "Hey Jane, great to see you!" - to a woman you don't know, who looks like she's being hassled.

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