samboct
Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline
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To Tweak and Lady P
If the facts of the case were as you outlined- odds are we wouldn't be having this discussion. My understanding of the law is that Brock Turner could have taken a selfie with his accuser at 12:30 and said "we're going to have sex" with her nodding yes- and it wouldn't matter in terms of the conviction because under the California statute- if the accuser is unresponsive- that's rape. So the questions the prosecutor asked Turner was- "were you checking that she was responsive?" The jury decided that Turner was lying- that he hadn't been checking to see if she was responsive- but there's no suggestion that they didn't leave the party together to go have sex. There's really not a lot of evidence either way- the witnesses are drunk and unreliable. So I don't think we're discussing the case of Turner coming along and finding a passed out woman lying on the ground and attempting to have sex with her. I think we are discussing what is appropriate punishment given the situation. Effectively, the consent issue boils down to asking a drunk 18 y.o. to recognize that consent has been withdrawn when his date passes out.
I have a lot of trouble with this farcical- "was she responsive" nonsense. Basically we're asking a drunk 18 y.o. to have good judgement. From my perspective, there's an element of hypocrisy in how we treat people this age. On the one hand, we tell them that they have the right to vote and to go out and join the Army to kill or be killed- pretty awesome responsibilities. On the other hand, we tell them that they're not old enough to drink. Why? Because they have bad judgement around alcohol and they're more likely to wrack up cars, themselves and others. Having been an 18 y.o. boy once- many moons ago, I can recall that most of the time, I thought about sex. Oh, sometimes studies intruded- but I was really concerned about getting laid. So were my friends. I'm pretty sure that most 18 y.o. boys are this way. A chance at sex? Sure!!! So when a drunk cougar comes along, what red blooded 18 y.o boy is supposed to pass this up? Add in drinking- and any judgement has gone out the window. And here's my problem with the prosecution....If a someone like me (I'm a 55 y.o guy) is found attempting to have sex with a passed out 22 y.o.who was found lying unconscious- do I agree this is rape? Close enough as makes no difference.. But I'm a 55 y.o. guy who doesn't get drunk- so my judgement generally isn't impaired under those circumstances. If I'm the one doing the kanoodling of a passed out person- then I can say- OK, throw the book at me- I deserve it. But how is this even close to a drunk 18 y.o.? In short- if we're expecting good judgement out of an 18 y.o boy under these circumstances- well, we're being irresponsible- and I think hypocritical. So I understand why the judge did what he did. I would have been happier if he'd have tossed the case entirely, but I'm not sure that was within his range of options.
People have commented about the "heart" of the accuser. I don't see it. What would show compassion and maturity is to drop the charges-Brock Turner's life is already in disarray- but that would also involve taking responsibility for her own actions. I see her as vindictive.
And to the people who feel like attacking me for my viewpoint- Do any of you have 18 y.o boys? (No, I don't- but I do like children- I enjoy borrowing other peoples.) Are you really certain that they'd never find themselves in Brock Turner's situation?
Sam
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RE: Victim Statement from Stanford Rape Victim - 
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