RE: Is the man the only one who is bad?

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 8:05:38 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

You've taken part of the sentence out of context to fit your agenda.

Try reading the closing sentence and pay attention to the bit I underlined.
And particularly where it states: "...irrespective of the outcome it produces"

Sorry, it does not fit your definition.

Read again, it says although the group acknowledges that the inclusion of "the use of power" in its definition expands on the conventional meaning of the word. This definition involves intentionality with the committing of the act itself, irrespective of the outcome it produces.

So it's saying that under the "the use of power", it expands on the conventional meaning.
In the case, the woman wasn't using power. She's not the higher powered one.

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 8:07:30 AM

Edwird

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

... and another instance of the female drunk absolutely thrashing the male drunk with a dog chain.

Sweet jesus. I would *not* class that as ladylike behaviour.

Yeah, there were some 'lessons about life' like that for a 10-12 yr. old from living close to a neighborhood where stuff like that happened on a semi-regular basis.

The guy wasn't hurt too badly because he held his arms over his face and head.

After awhile, I didn't worry too much about a guy slugging his woman a couple of times (if held only to that). It seemed like, in the poor neighborhoods, that was just another form of communication. There was another time where a woman threw an empty quart-sized beer bottle and it hit the guy right in the face. With all the "Damn you, motherfucker!" "Damn you, bitch!" going on along with it.

People who had 'impulse control issues,' as we say.

Which is why I find all this judgemental crap regarding the poor so disgusting. "They bring it on themselves!" etc. Well, of course they do, idiot! That's the problem. I couldn't do anything but feel sorry for them. Some people obviously make bad choices, but I doubt any of them wake up and say "well, I'm going to spend the day with serious lack of control, see how that works out for me."

< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/14/2016 8:12:52 AM >

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 8:11:54 AM

Awareness

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
What kind of lessons are you teaching your kids, if you are gonna show a kid this video and tell your kid that, if a weaker person hits you, please make sure you hit them back 10 times harder . Because every person here who says she deserves what she got, is practically teaching that lesson.

Letting people get away with aggression because they're smaller merely enables their behaviour. One day, they'll run into someone who won't. And the lesson they learn THEN will probably be a lot harsher than the one they could've learned years earlier.

You're making excuses for the woman's behaviour. She was out of line. The guy was definitely out of line (bitch slap her dude, but don't fucking punch - Jesus.) Which reinforces that most domestic violence is basically people in dysfunctional relationships.

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 9:01:13 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Letting people get away with aggression because they're smaller merely enables their behaviour. One day, they'll run into someone who won't. And the lesson they learn THEN will probably be a lot harsher than the one they could've learned years earlier.

You're making excuses for the woman's behaviour. She was out of line. The guy was definitely out of line (bitch slap her dude, but don't fucking punch - Jesus.) Which reinforces that most domestic violence is basically people in dysfunctional relationships.

Ya the point is. I am not saying, do not punish her. I am saying that his response is not a fair punishment for her! I have suggested an alternative punishment a genuine good fellow would have done. Which is mimicking her actions back to her, but use the same level of strength as she did him. Do it mockingly. And then drive off and leave her there. That's my point! Frankly, his the one in power all the time. His her significant other. I don't generally expect a significant other to cause serious harm to the one they love. Also, I already mentioned that she show significant restraint when going at him whatever has set her, in her heated anger, she still tried not to cause any real harm to him, she seriously held back. I posted a video showing what real male abuse from a woman really is! What not holding back means!
Never once have I advocated no punishment for her.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/14/2016 9:07:47 AM >

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 9:10:28 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
People who had 'impulse control issues,' as we say.

Which is why I find all this judgemental crap regarding the poor so disgusting. "They bring it on themselves!" etc. Well, of course they do, idiot! That's the problem. I couldn't do anything but feel sorry for them. Some people obviously make bad choices, but I doubt any of them wake up and say "well, I'm going to spend the day with serious lack of control, see how that works out for me."

Except impulse controls are not exclusively for poor people. Many rich people have impulse controls too. That's why you see ugly rich people behaviour too. Being rich or poor, doesn't excuse those things equally. Because I don't believe poor is a symptom to impulse controls.

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 9:14:35 AM

ThatDizzyChick

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quote:

Letting people get away with aggression because they're smaller merely enables their behaviour. One day, they'll run into someone who won't. And the lesson they learn THEN will probably be a lot harsher than the one they could've learned years earlier.

So in other words you figure you're doing them a favour if you beat the crap out of them.

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 3:11:40 PM

Awareness

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

Letting people get away with aggression because they're smaller merely enables their behaviour. One day, they'll run into someone who won't. And the lesson they learn THEN will probably be a lot harsher than the one they could've learned years earlier.

So in other words you figure you're doing them a favour if you beat the crap out of them.

No, I'm saying you harm them if you excuse their behaviour and let them establish a belief system which says no-one will hit them. Because sooner or later, someone will. And the more they get away with it, the more they'll push that envelope. When they do fall, they'll fall hard.

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 4:37:22 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Personally if I were him, maybe I'd just get into the car and drive off and leave her there. No need to attack her back.

So, I guess you're one of those "Conservatives" who believe in "Personal Responsibility" as long as you get to keep your special privilege because you're female. How about this. Every PERSON regardless of gender, ethnicity or sexual preference, etc, etc take RESPONSIBILITY for their own actions.

She did something stupid and paid the price but you think that should should be given a break because of her gender.

Fucking hypocrite.

Greta seems to be making a whole case on the fact that the woman should get a free pass because of her gender and/or that she was the weaker party of the two.

I don't.
She shouldn't have started the fight at all in the first place.
But equally well, the guy could have handled it much better and not retaliated in such a bullying way.
I'm guessing he didn't want to look small so decided to treat her like any other guy attacking him.

In my view -

he should be booked for beating her, assualt etc.

she should be booked for causing an affray or disturbing the peace or asualt and battery.

There's no way she should get a free pass just because of her gender or being the weaker party.
She started the altercation, she should pay the appropriate penalty.

I agree that jail time should be involved but greta is a fucking hypocrite for saying it should be him while she is a "Conservative".

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 5:18:17 PM

Edwird

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
People who had 'impulse control issues,' as we say.

Which is why I find all this judgemental crap regarding the poor so disgusting. "They bring it on themselves!" etc. Well, of course they do, idiot! That's the problem. I couldn't do anything but feel sorry for them. Some people obviously make bad choices, but I doubt any of them wake up and say "well, I'm going to spend the day with serious lack of control, see how that works out for me."

Except impulse controls are not exclusively for poor people. Many rich people have impulse controls too. That's why you see ugly rich people behaviour too. Being rich or poor, doesn't excuse those things equally. Because I don't believe poor is a symptom to impulse controls.

It's a matter of percentages, Greta. If I said that only poor people acted this way, you are welcome to copy/paste that.

I already said in an earlier post that in more well-to-do neighborhoods maybe they don't call the law often enough.

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/14/2016 6:49:21 PM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I agree that jail time should be involved but greta is a fucking hypocrite for saying it should be him while she is a "Conservative".

I'm conservative on Islam, pro death penalty.
But Liberal on pro-abortion.
On the fence about the guns, I like living in a gun free country more than the idea of a gun filled country.
But it should 101% be him that goes to jail in this instances, as he caused the bigger damage in that fight.
She took personal responsibility by not hitting him with full strength and keeping her hits from harming him, only aiming parts like, chest, slap on face, and even kick on the butt, and she held back her strength, she was so restrained. He was completely irresponsible in losing control of his strength and going crazy at her, punching her to cause real harm.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/14/2016 6:50:59 PM >

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/15/2016 10:13:43 PM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I agree that jail time should be involved but greta is a fucking hypocrite for saying it should be him while she is a "Conservative".

I'm conservative on Islam, pro death penalty.
But Liberal on pro-abortion.
On the fence about the guns, I like living in a gun free country more than the idea of a gun filled country.
But it should 101% be him that goes to jail in this instances, as he caused the bigger damage in that fight.
She took personal responsibility by not hitting him with full strength and keeping her hits from harming him, only aiming parts like, chest, slap on face, and even kick on the butt, and she held back her strength, she was so restrained. He was completely irresponsible in losing control of his strength and going crazy at her, punching her to cause real harm.

She was responsible my big hairy ASS. She attacked someone who could mop the floor with her physically. That is irresponsible. PERIOD
You ONLY defend her because she is a woman.

Conservatives believe in personal responsibility and she has none.

She is stupid and irresponsible and I hope she is infertile so the stupid doesn't pass to another generation of stupid and irresponsible.

Hypocrite

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RE: Is the man the only one who is bad? - 6/22/2016 8:51:02 AM

ManOeuvre

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Greta, I wholeheartedly agree with your notion that the strong should protect the weak.

This is obvious when it comes to third party interventions, etc. Imagine how crazy it would be if our cultural norm was such that when the police show up to a fight, they put the loser out of his misery....

One important thing to realize, as a part of the whole moral transaction in your idealized case of a woman hitting her partner to no effect, followed by him gently restraining her, is that the man is being paternalistic towards the woman. Treating her like a child. I don't have a problem with this at all, and I wouldn't accuse most women of being particularly mature, but we have to admit that this is what we're doing.

To respond not in kind, but to over-rule her attempt at violence and bail her out of her own bad decision with recourse to one's own considerable strength is treating someone not like an adult, but like a child.

It is a grown up version of a mother admonishing her two year old after he or she has lashed out, and placing the child in her arms rather than lashing back in kind.

Again, I don't have the slightest problem with this, however, it's worth acknowledging that this is what's going on.

Also, Greta I disagree with you that a conflict doesn't become violent until someone get's hurt. It would seem that in your subsequent example, you are not recognizing violence and force as distinct. One definition that contrasts the two is that violence is the initiation of the use of force.

One component of my job consists of dealing with belligerent people, and I frequently need to apply a small (for me) degree of force to gain compliance. They are violent, I am forceful. If anyone gets hurt, which is very rare, it's them, not me.

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