RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 10:25:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip
the tragedy in fla is very sad and there are many who need support in its aftermath my prayers are for the familys of those affected
the 2nd amendment has 2 parts 1 right to keep arms for home defense
and 2 right to bear arms as a prt of a well organized militia
for those that want to carry a gun they can join one of the many recognized groups to do so


    quote:

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Please show where the two parts are. If you'd care to cite SCOTUS decisions that support your assertions, that'd be great.

quote:

as far as having a assault rifle as your carry gun i dont see any reason for it


What is an "assault rifle?"

quote:

there is no excuse in using any religion as a reason to cause great harm instead of looking for a reason to point blame and hate lets try to find a way to prevent hate and accept others and their diffrences


THIS, I completely agree with.

This guy didn't kill people because he had a gun. He shot people at a gay nightclub because he could not tolerate homosexuality. He killed people because he decided that his right to choose was more important than theirs.

He was probably suffering from some mental health issue in addition to being quite radical in his religious faith. I have not yet read how he got his guns, but that is important.






AgentBlack -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 10:35:35 AM)

Someday..
Meteor rifles with built in light saber bayonet utility...
That also shoots lazer beams.[;)] [:D][:D]

Something for the rear window of the truck. XD




Lucylastic -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 10:42:19 AM)

from abc news...
Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen legally purchased the guns he had on him today within the past week, even though he had been known to law enforcement for years, federal officials confirmed.

Law enforcement sources told ABC News that he had a .223 caliber AR-type rifle and a Glock handgun on him at the time of the shooting early this morning, which the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says he bought legally.

News of the legal purchases comes as officials confirmed that Mateen had been interviewed three times by the FBI in the years leading up to the shooting because his name came up in connection to two different cases. Such information would not show up in a background check because both cases were closed.

Law enforcement sources confirmed that Mateen was on the FBI's radar but not necessarily on a watch list. But even appearing on the list wouldn't have necessarily prevented him from obtaining weapons.

"Being on the watch list is not in itself disqualifying, under law. The disqualifying elements of the investigation may be classified," ABC News consultant and former acting Homeland Security undersecretary John Cohen said.

According to Florida law, there is a mandatory three-day waiting period for handgun purchases, but no permit, registration or licensing is needed to buy or own rifles, shotguns or handguns. A permit is needed, however, to carry a handgun.


In 2013, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun violence gave Florida an “F” when grading states' based on their approaches to regulating guns and ammunition.

The study noted that Florida has had "historically weak gun laws."

Shooting enthusiast magazine Guns & Ammo ranked Florida as the 12th best state for gun owners, noting how they have no restrictions on modern firearms and the increase in shooting ranges in metropolitan areas.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/orlando-shooter-bought-guns-previous-flags-fbi/story?id=39799861




DesideriScuri -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 10:56:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
from abc news...
Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen legally purchased the guns he had on him today within the past week, even though he had been known to law enforcement for years, federal officials confirmed.


The FBI and law enforcement "knowing" him means little, unless they flagged him as dangerous and he was still allowed to get a gun. But, for whatever reason, they didn't find him to be a threat.

Should he have been determined to be a threat in 2013/2014 (when he was questioned by the FBI)? I don't know.




WhoreMods -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 10:57:34 AM)

I suppose you've got to give the right to carry lobby and the NRA full marks for consistency, if nothing else.




Lucylastic -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 11:00:14 AM)

he could still have bought a gun...
Even if he had been on the no fly list.
why?




WhoreMods -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 11:01:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

he could still have bought a gun...
Even if he had been on the no fly list.
why?


Because they wouldn't let him carry a gun onto a plane in his hand luggage.
Obvs.




Lucylastic -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 11:03:24 AM)

home grown religious hatred, theres a lot of it about.




WhoreMods -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 11:12:42 AM)

Quite, and an awful lot of it seems to be directed at the LGBT community, doesn't it?




Lucylastic -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 11:15:38 AM)

well we have seen it many times here.




WhoreMods -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 11:24:57 AM)

It seems a lot less frowned upon than it should be, true enough.




WhoreMods -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 11:27:19 AM)

How about a tasteless cartoon?
[image]http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/12613/lightbox/TMW2012-12-19colorKOS.png[/image]
(Whyever this thread should make me think of that cartoon, I can't imagine...)




Awareness -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 11:58:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Jesus Christ you're a windbag, Awareness. As pointed out to you, now on many, many occasions, the vast majority of political scientists use the right/left axis.
Citation required. You're flapping your gums here with no evidence whatsoever.

quote:

The chief reasons why you don't are a) because you don't understand it and have only the most superficial acquaintanceship with it
Nonsense. I understand it fully as a crutch for simpletons.

quote:


and b) because you're so monumentally egotistical that you like to think you're 'above' it.
No, I understand it as a model and as I've patiently explained to you before, the true test of any model is its ability to predict the future.


quote:

You're making a standard first year undergrad political science student's mistake.
Apparently your idea of 'mistakes' includes not swallowing whatever indoctrination you're spouting. Given that the purpose of political science encompasses the use of dogma and doctrine as tools of manipulation, it seems odd that you fail to understand this. I'm beginning to think you're completely full of shit and don't understand the first thing about political science.

quote:

The 'power base' that's fragile and causing a spluttering furious defence isn't that of political scientists.
Leftists political scientists from British academia. As I said, your brainwashing and imposition of doctrine is not political science. It's the imposition of leftist academic dogma.

quote:

It's your own. You just aren't the intellectual legend in your own time that you think you are. I mean, hell ... were you a Zeppelin in a former incarnation? I've never seen such a thin skin wrapped around so much gas.
Ad hominem. Pathetic and irrelevant. Next!




Awareness -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 12:04:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AgentBlack

@ greta.
Reason why is cause our country was built using equal firepower against lthe greatest military in the world at that time.
Americans vs the tories redcoat british.
Wrong. Washington was a shit general who was also a war criminal who burnt Indian villages.

The American revolution was fundamentally enabled by the French. Particularly the French Navy - because the American colonies didn't actually have one.

quote:


The American Revolution.
Our Constitution. Garuntees its is our right to posess the same firepower as a common soldier.
No. It doesn't. The second amendment speaks of a militia and the word 'militia' in the context of the founding fathers means an armed citizenry under civilian authority. It does not - and never has - enabled the personal accrual of guns for "defense". That's a promotion of the NRA who finally succeeded in the creation of that mandate in the 1970's.

quote:


say.. 200 years from now...
Gun control happens citizens can still have guns... But only 1 bullet! and that bullet must not exceed 400 feet per second.

Meanwhile another country has been machining guns too..
their guns though.. Hold 100 bullets and shoot 3,000 feet per second...
the other country sees something in our country that they want..
Wars between countries are fought with military arms like.. oh, I dunno... DRONES!

This addiction to guns is utter madness.





Awareness -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 12:08:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
This guy didn't kill people because he had a gun.
Yes he fucking did. Without a gun his opportunity to kill that many people that quickly would be severely compromised.

quote:

He shot people at a gay nightclub because he could not tolerate homosexuality. He killed people because he decided that his right to choose was more important than theirs.

He was probably suffering from some mental health issue in addition to being quite radical in his religious faith. I have not yet read how he got his guns, but that is important.
No, it's fucking irrelevant. The ready availability of guns in the USA is directly responsible for this tragedy. Look here's some footage from inside the club when the guy started shooting: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/florida-nightclub-shooting/81030880/florida-shooting-victim-amanda-alvear-posted-video-to-snapchat-as-gunman-attacked

Listen to how fast that fucker is firing. If you seriously want to try and tell me that you have a constitutional right and need for a gun which fires that fast, then I'll confidently proclaim you as fucking insane. Guns like that do not belong in the hands of the citizenry. Period.





bounty44 -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 12:45:54 PM)

i trust townhall.com is not a place that comrades go for their reading, but this incident has generated a handful of articles, some of which might be worth the while:

Imam Who Preached in Orlando Two Months Ago Advocates Death For Gays

FBI Director on Orlando Killer: I Don’t Think There’s Anything We Could've Done Differently

Right and Wrong Reactions to the Tragic Massacre in Orlando

Orlando Terrorist Worked For Major DHS Security Contractor

The Orlando Horror and Hard Truths

Mateen Traveled to Saudi Arabia for 'Muslim Pilgrimage' in 2011 and 2012, Before FBI Interviews

The Orlando Jihadist Was on The FBI's Radar For Years

ACLU Lawyer Sounds Off on 'Islamophobia,' Blames Christian Right for Orlando Carnage

Orlando Shooter's Co-worker Made Complaints Against Him, Wasn't Fired Allegedly Because He Was Muslim




BamaD -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 1:20:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

from abc news...
Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen legally purchased the guns he had on him today within the past week, even though he had been known to law enforcement for years, federal officials confirmed.

Law enforcement sources told ABC News that he had a .223 caliber AR-type rifle and a Glock handgun on him at the time of the shooting early this morning, which the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says he bought legally.

News of the legal purchases comes as officials confirmed that Mateen had been interviewed three times by the FBI in the years leading up to the shooting because his name came up in connection to two different cases. Such information would not show up in a background check because both cases were closed.

Law enforcement sources confirmed that Mateen was on the FBI's radar but not necessarily on a watch list. But even appearing on the list wouldn't have necessarily prevented him from obtaining weapons.

"Being on the watch list is not in itself disqualifying, under law. The disqualifying elements of the investigation may be classified," ABC News consultant and former acting Homeland Security undersecretary John Cohen said.

According to Florida law, there is a mandatory three-day waiting period for handgun purchases, but no permit, registration or licensing is needed to buy or own rifles, shotguns or handguns. A permit is needed, however, to carry a handgun.


In 2013, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun violence gave Florida an “F” when grading states' based on their approaches to regulating guns and ammunition.

The study noted that Florida has had "historically weak gun laws."

Shooting enthusiast magazine Guns & Ammo ranked Florida as the 12th best state for gun owners, noting how they have no restrictions on modern firearms and the increase in shooting ranges in metropolitan areas.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/orlando-shooter-bought-guns-previous-flags-fbi/story?id=39799861

So it was a failure of the FBI.




bigjb62 -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 1:22:28 PM)

Here's a tidbit the left will surely poo poo and try to ignore:

quote:

Following the tragic terrorist shooting attack in San Bernardino in December, it was revealed by a former Department of Homeland Security agent that he had been running a special investigation that potentially could have prevented that attack from taking place.

Now, following the even more deadly mass shooting terrorist assault on a nightclub in Orlando, Florida, that same agent is suggesting that his investigation could have prevented that attack from occurring as well.

According to WND, retired DHS agent Philip Haney had been running a special investigation into a worldwide Islamist movement originating from Pakistan known as Tablighi Jamaat. In the course of his investigation, Haney uncovered numerous connections between several mosques and individuals in the U.S. with known terrorists and terrorist organizations, including Al Qaida and Hamas, among others.

Unfortunately, just as Haney’s investigation was really ramping up, it was shut down in a joint effort by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s State Department and the Civil Rights division of DHS, due to “concern” that the investigation was unfairly targeting Muslims.

Making matters worse, much of the important information and links Haney had documented were summarily deleted in 2012.

Had the investigation not been halted, and the information deleted, there’s no telling what radical Islamic mayhem could have been prevented — including, possibly, the San Bernardino and Orlando attacks.

What couldn’t be deleted was the information remaining in Haney’s mind, and following the attack in Orlando and the revelation of the mosque the shooter attended. Haney knew the mosque was familiar, and did some digging. He quickly determined that the gunman’s mosque, the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce, was part of the network he had uncovered five years ago.

“This case struck me as very similar to the San Bernardino shooting case,” Haney said. “I suspected that they were both part of a national and international network of organizations.”

Using only open-source material, Haney was able to reestablish the connections he first discovered years ago in the span of only a few hours. That left him critical of the FBI’s efforts at previously investigating the Orlando jihadist.

“It means they didn’t go through the same basic, analytical process that I went through over a three- or four-hour period in which I was able to link the mosque to my previous cases,” he said.


Sadly, because of the prevailing PC culture and desire to avoid offending radical Muslims that runs rampant through President Barack Obama’s administration, an investigation that could have led to a shut down of radical mosques and the arrest of real and potential terrorists was ended before it could do any good.

Please share this on Facebook and Twitter to help spread this added proof that Hillary Clinton cares not a bit about protecting Americans from violent jihad, and is more concerned with the hurt feelings of targeted jihadists.


http://conservativetribune.com/hillarys-state-dept-orlando-attack/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=THENewVoice&utm_content=06/13/2016&utm_campaign=manualpost




BamaD -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 1:23:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

he could still have bought a gun...
Even if he had been on the no fly list.
why?


Because there is no due process in the no fly list, and because you can get on it because you have a simular name to someone who is a threat or because someone said that maybe you could be........



The no fly list is too flawed to be used to deprive people of their rights.
Before we consider using it we have to fix it.




BamaD -> RE: Mass Shooting in Florida (6/13/2016 1:26:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

he could still have bought a gun...
Even if he had been on the no fly list.
why?


Because they wouldn't let him carry a gun onto a plane in his hand luggage.
Obvs.

They won't let anyone carry a gun onto a plane in their hand luggage, didn't you know that.




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