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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 11:12:02 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Knowing how many Americans feel towards gays why would ISIS target them instead of a "better" target

Because this club is a sign of our decadance.
Besides, it lets some people attack anyone who says anything against them as Islamaphobic, much like you have been doing, like being a pawn do we.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 11:16:28 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

He wouldn't have been able to legally acquire a firearm but I think it's a huge leap to say it would not have happened.

Earlier I pointed out the night club in NJ where dozens, maybe as many as 100
were killed simply by puting a chain on one door and and setting off gasoline at the other.

If the FBI had done thier job he might well have been in jail.


Oh I'm sure the FBI will spin this as the shooter using encryption to hide his communication with all sorts of terrorist organizations and if the American people would just let them outlaw strong encryption these sorts of things would never happen again, swearsies.

Never let a good tragedy go to waste.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 11:17:15 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

Would your press be able to report if your government disallowed such freedom of assembly? From what I'm reading, the notion of being able to freely assemble is relatively new in your "partly free" utopia.

The newspaper has reported many times that government has rejected the license for people freedom to assemble for protest. Yes, you got to apply for a license to protest. When its rejected, it's published in the paper and official explanation to the nation why it is rejected. Our government believes alot in accountability. They always have to explain their actions thoroughly to us. But they are the ruling government so their decision is final and we are free to vote them out the next election if we disagree with their logic of rejection or their decision making logics. So far, I'm okay with everything. So are majority of 70% voters at this point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


Are you sure you want to proclaim the freedoms homosexuals enjoy (illegally, apparently)?



The law is inaccurate.
We have two interesting laws.
1) Sodomy is illegal for both men and women, and even if it's between a man and a woman. That is nothing against gays. Gay men in Singapore can french kiss and hold hands in public. That's perfect legal. That law your article mentioned specifically says no sodomy, it says nothing about 2 men.

2) It is also against the law to have oral sex, if it does not lead to penetrative sex. AGAIN, this law is for both men and women, and even IF it's between a man and woman.

But unless anybody rat on themselves, nobody to my knowledge has ever been prosecuted for sodomy in my country or this oral sex thingy.

Our country is against marriage of two same sex individuals. I am against it too. We just believe marriage is between a man and a woman. But we definitely do not prosecute homosexuals people here at all.

(PS: I looked up on the section 377A law, I am unaware that we have that law, because if you come to Singapore, Gay men are so open. Holding hands and kissing publicly and live without fear. They could pass by a police and it's okay. Something about our country is, we have alot of archaic redundant law that they don't bother actively prosecuting but they also don't bother removing it. Before our founder died, he also mentioned that, the law should be removed if there is scientific evidence that, man to man sex is natural and not a choice. You got to understand, my country started off as a Muslim country, before it was officially even a country, so if we had archaic laws that reflected the indigenous Muslim people's opinion that haven't been removed, then, it takes time to slowly rid of them all.)

Oh and Wikipedia blamed the British for this law BTW: Male homosexuality was outlawed under British rule (1819-1942) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Singapore


ALL the homosexual prosecution were done by WHITE BRITISH RULERS! When they rule Singapore.

We were a Brit Colony too. But seriously, no Singaporeans today would ever want gay people to be in jail for being gay. EVER!

And the fact that we allowed a homosexual event Pink Dot to happened, Fully approved and license given by our government, tells you, homosexuality is okay over here. I mean, Pink Dot cannot be held without government approval at all.

And for gawd's sake, we have gay clubs too!!! Legal gay clubs allowed to operate!

One of our top celebrity comedian, Kumar, is openly gay, and talks alot about his gay sex encounters in his comedy. He would have been dead by now if my country is really not accepting of gay people. Instead, his a well loved comedian.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/13/2016 11:40:12 PM >

(in reply to ifmaz)
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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 11:17:56 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Knowing how many Americans feel towards gays why would ISIS target them instead of a "better" target

Because this club is a sign of our decadance.
Besides, it lets some people attack anyone who says anything against them as Islamaphobic, much like you have been doing, like being a pawn do we.



Gay. Straight. It doesn't matter. These scumbags are determined to kill anyone that doesn't bend a knee to their version of Allah.

They killed (this time) 49 AMERICANS. They are at war with us. They have declared war and they have committed acts of war. It's time to show them what happens when good people are pushed too far.



Michael

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 11:36:52 PM   
ifmaz


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Joined: 7/22/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Knowing how many Americans feel towards gays why would ISIS target them instead of a "better" target

Because this club is a sign of our decadance.
Besides, it lets some people attack anyone who says anything against them as Islamaphobic, much like you have been doing, like being a pawn do we.


If that's what you want to read into my posts then go for it, but you should probably know I don't like blaming a large group of people for the actions of a minority, Islamic or otherwise. With everything being an act of terrorism lately I don't particularly enjoy labeling something else as the latest go-to cop-out.

The club isn't a sign of our 'decadence' (it's smaller than many other clubs in the area, from what I'm reading) but lets run with that for a moment. If a supposed ISIS fighter wanted to do real damage why not pull a Homeland and walk into the club with a suicide vest full of BBs or other such projectiles? Why frequent the club for months if not years and attempt to establish intimate relationships with various people at the club and in The Gay Scene?

It's such a nonsensical target for ISIS yet such a practical target for someone sexually repressed and wanting to lash out at others in an attempt to absolve himself of his inner demons.

Regardless, time to stock up on lowers for the inevitable shit storm.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 11:52:25 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

He proclaimed his allegiance to ISIS after/during the attack and ISIS gladly welcomed him into the fold afterwards. I don't think anyone is reporting a direct ISIS connection at this point so it's really all conjecture.

It could be that his father was a sympathizer of sorts and intensely religious. Perhaps he grew up knowing he was gay and tried desperately to hide it; the wife-beating could have been misplaced anger as a classmate said the shooter asked him out years prior and was gay. Disgusted by himself and unable to come to terms with his sexuality he seeks refuge in any group that will take him, perhaps one that would impress his father.



On the basis of what is known publicly at this time, your assessment seems to me to be the most reasonable one. There may be an ISIS connection but so far no one has come forward with any evidence of co-ordination between ISIS and the shooter prior to the claims he made while on his rampage. So a connection may exist but so far we haven't seen anything that can be said to be conclusive.

What is clear and indisputable is that there is a huge element of homophobia in the shooter's motivation. He singled out a gay bar and knew that almost all of the people at that bar would be queers. It seems likely that some of his homophobia was instilled in him by his father, who is still (rather ridiculously) denying that his son was gay. I cannot get my head around a mentality that says "yeah OK my son is a mass murderer but (thank Allah!) he wasn't a homosexual!". Can things get any more fucked up than that?

So whether or not there is a terrorist connection might remain an open question at this point. But there is no doubt that hate and homophobia played a central role in this horror. Hate and homophobia are not natural phenomena, they are social vices installed in people. They are treatable and curable conditions. In fact for most people the cure is relatively straightforward and easy.

Among other reactions to this horror, the need to combat and combat decisively the causes of hate and homo-/queer-phobia should be prioritised on the to-do list.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/13/2016 11:56:44 PM >

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 11:56:44 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		How come not one patron, bouncer, cashier or other employee had a gun to stop this MF ?

Let me ask this, how many times has an Orlando police station been shot up or robbed ? Anyone care to field that one ? Could it be that there are people (cops) with guns there and most know how to use them ? Are liberals going to come in here and say police stations should be gun free zones ?

We are talking a bar here. So what it is a Gay bar, they make money. And if they had over a hundred people there on a Sunday they are making good fucking money. Banks, pawn shops, jewelry stores etc., they will guard their money with weapons. However Gays tend to be more on the liberal side because they believe the government will protect them. Well the government didn't protect about 50 of them the other day...

I cannot imagine running a business that deals in alot of cash without someone armed there in case shit happens. You gotta be fucking kidding me. If not a target for radical Muslims or other crazoids they would be a target for robbers. I think the cashiers should be armed and trained, give them the money and when they are leaving shoot them in the back of the fucking head. And then take the money back so the cash drawer balances.

When someone decides to be a real criminal, and I am not talking about selling a bag of weed or cheating on their taxes, they have crossed a line and defined themself as an animal. They need to be put down like a rabid dog. And we do not need any assholes trying to take away our tools to do that job. You want the animals to live, take them into your home, let them around your kids, because you know the death penalty is so terrible they will be let out of that terrible prison where the poor babies suffer so much. Part and parcel of liberalism, still want it ?

In Cleveland there were fagbashers. They went in groups around Gay bars and beat up Gays just because they were Gay. You see, this did not make the news but I was here and actually knew a few. Know what happened ? The Gays got tough. Started working out and taking martial arts classes and it became quite difficult to beat them up.

Well if you got a Gay bar and someone comes and shoots a bunch of your customers, you gotta be pretty fucking dense not to realize how useful guns are.

They got signs in bars in Ohio to the effect that if you are carrying a gun in this liquor establishment you are guilty of Ohio code this or that but I am pretty sure that does not apply to employees, and in fact if you are confronted by a police officer who finds out you have a CCW he is not even allowed to ask you if you are packing. However the owner of a public business can make it illegal to pack in his business, which is the stupidest thing I ever heard. If the sign is visible on the door they can have you arrested. But some people are like that.

A bar with over 100 people in it ? I would have an armed guard at the door. This is a fucking gold mine, and a candy store. Pat down all the people coming in for weapons. The armed guard is trained in assault tactics and should be able to effectively kill anyone trying to bring weapons in who is not an employee. And if they shoot, they only kill 1 person, not fucking 50.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 6/14/2016 12:02:54 AM >

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 11:57:08 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

may be an ISIS connection but so far no one has come forward with any evidence of co-ordination between ISIS and the shooter prior to the claims he made while on his rampage.

Lone wolves operations are not suppose to have direct contact with ISIS. They are suppose to be in stealth mode, and fit in. No evidence of their plan out there! And disguise as ordinary people, who have normal happy whole families, with kids, operate solo on their own accord, although responding to ISIS call of Jihad.

I still feel like people don't understand how lone wolves operate!

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/13/2016 11:59:10 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

How come not one patron, bouncer, cashier or other employee had a gun to stop this MF ?


My best friend told me there was a retired policemen who worked as a bouncer that had a hand gun. But I can't find anything in the media with that story. If there was, I want to know why he didn't save the day! Surely the gun man going after 350 ppl would be distracted enough for that guy to sneak out behind him and shoot him in the back!



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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:03:05 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

may be an ISIS connection but so far no one has come forward with any evidence of co-ordination between ISIS and the shooter prior to the claims he made while on his rampage.

Lone wolves operations are not suppose to have direct contact with ISIS. They are suppose to be in stealth mode, and fit in. No evidence of their plan out there! And disguise as ordinary people, who have normal happy whole families, with kids, operate solo on their own accord, although responding to ISIS call of Jihad.

I still feel like people don't understand how lone wolves operate!

Greta I am not saying he is ISIS and I am not saying he isn't ISIS. I am saying that as things stand, the publicly available evidence is not conclusive on this point. So let's hold fire on this point until such time as the evidence clearly establishes a case one way or the other.

However it is abundantly clear that homophobia played a major role in this outrage. So let's look at something that is clear and indisputable and decide what can be done to address that. We can always address other factors as they emerge.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:04:04 AM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		a hand gun ? Against a quick-firer ? That sounds fair if you want to shuffle off this mortal coil very rapidly greta.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:06:43 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

a hand gun ? Against a quick-firer ? That sounds fair if you want to shuffle off this mortal coil very rapidly greta.

That's why I say sneak up behind him. His too busy shooting people infront of him running everywhere. With all the noise and screaming, I doubt he can hear the guy sneaking up on him. And as a retired policemen, I guess I would think, he should be able to aim and kill in one shot.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/14/2016 12:08:30 AM >

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:15:18 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
He didn't use a bomb.
It's conceivable that he might have resorted to a bomb if he hadn't been able to get hold of couple of firearms. However, he didn't need to be able to make a bomb.


So, you acknowledge that he could have used a bomb, right?

This guy was hellbent on killing homosexuals. That's why he killed them. He used a gun, but that isn't why he killed. Removing the gun from the equation doesn't necessarily remove the killing.

The gun is not the cause. The gun is only the tool. It's like saying we're going to fight obesity by banning silverware.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:17:15 AM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		you have never been in a combat situation, have you greta ? Sneaking up behind an armed and determined enemy went out even in Hollywood movies back in the 50's or 60's I think.........about the time Alan Ladd and Audie Murphy died. It really doesn't work unless you have been intensively trained in that form of combat

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:28:16 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

How come not one patron, bouncer, cashier or other employee had a gun to stop this MF ?


My best friend told me there was a retired policemen who worked as a bouncer that had a hand gun. But I can't find anything in the media with that story. If there was, I want to know why he didn't save the day! Surely the gun man going after 350 ppl would be distracted enough for that guy to sneak out behind him and shoot him in the back!





He might have not been able to get the drop on him. You can't ask people to commit suicide if they don't want it. But if there were say ten people armed there who know how to shoot one of them might have got him and saved some of those 49 people.

I was never all what I consider tough, but I could kill with my bare hands and I also could fight like three people at once, might lose but those MFs gonna be hurtin for certain. I know people who used to be able to beat five people, and never lost a fight.

These people, back then, I would not shoot with anything less than a .38 because I am pretty sure it would not stop them. They been hit with a baseball bat and showed no signs of being even phased over it, but the guy who hit him was quite soon. One guy, six punches, only six punches and the other dude was in the hospital for a year. A YEAR, and still ain't right. I asked hi one time what would happen if a guy walked in with a gun and pointed it at him and he said he would pick up the table and shove the guy either into the wall or down to the floor with it. And then of course the customary break out all his teeth with the gun so when he goes to prison and has to give blow jobs he cannot bite. You might think I a kldding but this is all true. We used to joke "Yeah, that asshole brought a gun to a table fight". I know this guy could do it. He used to walk on his hands and make it look easy. And he was not light. Big guy.

Now you get someone like that who decides to be a criminal, you need a gun. Maybe people in other countries don't get that big but they do here.

Then my buddy Tony, at the ATM this Black guy walks up behind him and says "I'll take that money". Tony says "You got a gun ?". Nope. "You got a knife ?". Boom boom boom and now I'll take your money N____.

But what if that was my 75 year old Mother ? I wish Tony would have killed that MF because it results in just a hair less chance of her being the victim of a violent crime. He didn't, but I think he taught him a lesson.

Anyway, guns in the right hands are a good thing. But since we cannot tell which hands those are, we just need ore of them to have better ability to stop people who go off. Think of Chris Dorner. I can almost guarantee he had good reason to go off, but he went off. And what did the rest of the cops do ? In looking for him they shot the innocent. They have no high ground here.

Nope, we ain't giving up shit. Period.

T^T

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:35:29 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

a hand gun ? Against a quick-firer ? That sounds fair if you want to shuffle off this mortal coil very rapidly greta.

That's why I say sneak up behind him. His too busy shooting people infront of him running everywhere. With all the noise and screaming, I doubt he can hear the guy sneaking up on him. And as a retired policemen, I guess I would think, he should be able to aim and kill in one shot.


You do not know the logistics of the situation. It may not have been possible at all, and only one armed among all those people ? Even if you can get behind the shooter if he is adept at this kind of shit he is watching their eyes and those will tell him your position and you are dead. Why do you think I do not rob banks n shit ? this shit is not easy.

T^T

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:36:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleclip
the latest reports are that he had visited the club several times before and was trigered by him getting hit on in the bathroom. i wouldnt be suprised if he was not able to express his homosexual desires due to his cultural belief .


While he could have been there to case the joint, he could very well have been driven to the point of lashing out because he couldn't express his true desires.

Other posters have mentioned him using gay dating apps. While this, again, may point to homosexual desires, chillingly, it could also point to him plotting to kill individuals that he met through the apps.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:44:32 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
He didn't use a bomb.
It's conceivable that he might have resorted to a bomb if he hadn't been able to get hold of couple of firearms. However, he didn't need to be able to make a bomb.


So, you acknowledge that he could have used a bomb, right?

This guy was hellbent on killing homosexuals. That's why he killed them. He used a gun, but that isn't why he killed. Removing the gun from the equation doesn't necessarily remove the killing.

The gun is not the cause. The gun is only the tool. It's like saying we're going to fight obesity by banning silverware.




Yeppers. A pressure cooker and a few chemicals. All it takes.

There are so many other methods. A bug sprayer like an exterminator would use filled with low octane gasoline, say two of them set at as high a flow rate they have. Damnear flamethrowers.

Umm, and gun laws do not cover flame throwers as far as I know.

And then there are flare guns, which are usually not multiple shot but you can accumulate a bunch of them and getting shot with them is a much more painful death.They used to be compatible with 12 gauge shotgun rounds but that changed. If you shot a shotgun round out of a flare pistol you better have both hands on it. (and a rag or something to not get burned) If you shot a flare gun round out of a shotgun though, you could deliver some real misery, but you could have done that with the pistol.

There are so many ways to kill people it is ridiculous, but guns are about the best and most efficient way. Also, shooting someone in the head is actually more humane than most other methods except maybe for drug overdose.

T^T

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:48:11 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Knowing how many Americans feel towards gays why would ISIS target them instead of a "better" target

Because this club is a sign of our decadance.
Besides, it lets some people attack anyone who says anything against them as Islamaphobic, much like you have been doing, like being a pawn do we.



Gay. Straight. It doesn't matter. These scumbags are determined to kill anyone that doesn't bend a knee to their version of Allah.

They killed (this time) 49 AMERICANS. They are at war with us. They have declared war and they have committed acts of war. It's time to show them what happens when good people are pushed too far.



Michael

All true, but to them a gay club would be even more deserving of an attack than most of us.
You are right all the way around.
Just on here see how many people want to believe this is the act of anti gay Christians or him cracking under the strain of all the Americans who hate gays as much as Moslems do. If they pick a target that not only kills a bunch of Americans but also gets us to fight among ourselves then they have sown not only fear but discord.

It is long past time to teach them a lesson.
I don't care if the victims were gay, straight, or celibate, they were Americans and we were all the target.



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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Mass Shooting in Florida - 6/14/2016 12:51:40 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

you have never been in a combat situation, have you greta ? Sneaking up behind an armed and determined enemy went out even in Hollywood movies back in the 50's or 60's I think.........about the time Alan Ladd and Audie Murphy died. It really doesn't work unless you have been intensively trained in that form of combat

Obviously I haven't. But if his too busy trying to kill as many people infront of him as possible, and so focus on that. Why would sneaking from behind catch his attention at all? That dude is probably not combat trained too. The policemen would have more training.

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
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