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Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 8:44:12 AM   
MASTERinVA


Posts: 3
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		I am a Master and I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times.  For example, if a slave does something stupid I like being direct and telling him he's a idiot.  I'm finding that this is not generally accepted practice, yet I like it because it allows me to communicate openly and directly.  It is that open and direct communication that makes a Master/slave relationship much better for me than a vanilla relationship.  I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up.  If I do, I think it would ruin the dynamic of the M/s relationship for me because I would have to worry constantly about hurting my slave's feelings. That would put me right back to the problems I have with regular relationships.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 8:49:55 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Your kink is not my kink..I have been taught to say this everytime I feel judgmental..

Now that disclaimer is out of the way... If I had a dominant that had no control over his mouth in talking to me I would not be his sub for very long. If he couldn't stop insulting drivel from leaking out his piehole I would wonder how intelligent he was. I would find that I was more in control over myself than he was, because I at least can censor my own mouth. I would think my intellect superior because I could at least communicate without tearing him down.

That being said, you might find a sub that likes this and wants to be talked to like nothing but a shitpile, good luck in your quest.. it might take awhile for you to find what you need.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 8:50:09 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am a big fan of incisive wit and sarcasm in general (usually), but, in relationships, there are particular put-downs that someone could say that would really, be truly emotionally hurtful to me: ("You're a freak; everyone thinks you're crazy, people just pretend to like you", for instance). But, how people communicate to eachother so that they both are getting what they need in a relationship is so personal and individualized, it's hard to say for certain.
Here's my two cents:

Someone saying:"You're stupid" wouldn't work on me. Neither would: "You're fat" (because I already know I am neither of those things, so someone telling me that would just roll like water off a duck's back. Other areas, well, some of them have a particular vulnerability for me, due to my personal history, as I am sure other people's do, too). But - that's neither here nor there...Unless I and a partner had some negotiated "understanding" where this was some kind of Sadistic part of our relationship (which would make it fine), it seems a bit hurtful, and possibly emotionally damaging to the submissive, and maybe permanently damaging to your relationship.

Granted, I know nothing about your realtionship w/your submissive. If they don't mind putting up with it, or like it, I think it's fine. If you're genuinely hurting them, and it's damaging to them (ask them whether it is, or not), and it just gets you off, then it might just be time to stop. *You can find someone who gets off on this as much as you do, or at least doesn't mind it, probably. Maybe go look for that person, instead?

It's good that you're asking about it, I think.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/21/2006 9:24:50 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 9:16:11 AM   
reticence


Posts: 180
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		I can only speak for myself, but I would not be around long.  I don't understand why calling someone an idiot is the same thing as speaking truthfully.  If you really think he is an idiot, why are you with him?  An occasional screw up is certainly not indicativeof being an idiot.  One can certainly communicate clearly and fully without name calling or putting someone down. 

That being said, I do understand that someone's kink can be that sort of behavior but i think that is usually kept "in scene", in certain times and places and the submissive understands that this is being done for the sake of "kink" and not what the dom honestly thinks of the person.

I think if it is done constantly it borders on abuse, if it is done as a scene type thing, then it is ok, just not my thing.  

If you regard putting your submissive down constantly as a form of honest communication, if that is truly how you feel about the person, why are you even with them?  If it is your "kink" I think there has to be "down time" when you can communicate with your submissive about how you really feel about them. 

I don't think I am making myself very clear here,  no sleep last night, words are not coming easily.  I will spare you any further babble  (smile)

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 9:16:45 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERinVA

I am a Master and I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times.  For example, if a slave does something stupid I like being direct and telling him he's a idiot.  I'm finding that this is not generally accepted practice, yet I like it because it allows me to communicate openly and directly.  It is that open and direct communication that makes a Master/slave relationship much better for me than a vanilla relationship.  I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up.  If I do, I think it would ruin the dynamic of the M/s relationship for me because I would have to worry constantly about hurting my slave's feelings. That would put me right back to the problems I have with regular relationships.


Dude, I just read your profile.

You realize the highlighted part is the opposite of what your "rules" state right?  Is it only one sided open communication from the dominant?

(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 9:33:58 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERinVA

I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times.  

I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up. 


You asked for opinions, after stating that you prefer plain speech to tact - so you're going to get a completely unexpurgated and unedited opinion.
 
You're a jackass hiding behind the mask of BDSM consensuality to avoid being pegged as an abuser.  In YOUR OWN WORDS you state that you enjoy ABUSING those bound to you.  Abuse has no place in BDSM or anywhere else - because it has crossed the line from being Consensual Kink into being just what you called it yourself - Abuse.  Either give up the desire to abuse - or give up lying to yourself and everyone else about being involved in Consensual Kink.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 9:45:21 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERinVA

I am a Master and I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times.  For example, if a slave does something stupid I like being direct and telling him he's a idiot.  I'm finding that this is not generally accepted practice, yet I like it because it allows me to communicate openly and directly.  It is that open and direct communication that makes a Master/slave relationship much better for me than a vanilla relationship.  I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up.  If I do, I think it would ruin the dynamic of the M/s relationship for me because I would have to worry constantly about hurting my slave's feelings. That would put me right back to the problems I have with regular relationships.

There are people like me who get off on verbal abuse and degradation.

We are rare.

If you want to be in a relationship where you don't have to concern yourself with another's feelings AND plan to engage in high risk edge kink type play- get yourself a hamster.

If you are going to engage in high risk emotional edge kink play, you WILL have to concern yourself with the other persons state of emotion, short term and long term, before during and after the scene.

Now, that doesn't mean you will have to walk on eggshells or hold back- but it means that when you play with someone, you take some responsibility for making it a fulfilling experience for all involved.

A real issue is that you're even considering thinking that you have to give up something that you find very fulfilling for you just to get into a relationship with someone else.  That path never works either.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:07:34 AM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, I'm aware that BDSM practiced between 2 gay males is not exactly the same animal as that practiced by a Male/female duo, so this is not a clearcut question with an easy answer.

My gay friends who practice BDSM tell me that, in general, there is definitely more name-calling, and harsher treatment, since the dynamic of dealing with men is different from the dynamic of dealing with women.

I have a feeling that you will find gay male subs who like the insults. My only concern is that you mention not wanting to have to worry about the slave's feelings.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting that, but if you honestly don't care enough about your slaves to find out beforehand if they will be emotionally damaged by this type of talk, and to temper your words accordingly, you may end up with far bigger problems than controlling an abusive mouth.

If you truly are as clear and direct in communication as you state, then it should be natural to find out from your slaves ahead of time if this is something that may damage them.

I'm wondering if you might get answers better suited to your situation by gay male slaves, since we females can tend to be a little sensitive about this issue. There may be a gay BDSM site with a forum you might want to cross-post this to, and compare answers.

Welcome to collarme forums!

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:17:05 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		LOL, about 25 years ago I was with a woman in Portland, Me while in the Coast Guard.
One night during lovemaking she said to me; "Hey, I want you to talk real nasty to me!" "Don't hold back!" Say whatever you want!"
Says me, "OK,... You Idiot!" You fuckin MORON!"
Says she; "NO! NO! NO! Not like that!!!"

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:19:25 AM   
merrymischief2


Posts: 19
Joined: 4/24/2006
Status: offline 		Personally I am not interested in this type of exchange, but I do think this post of LuckyAlbatross' is right on the money.

merry


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

There are people like me who get off on verbal abuse and degradation.

We are rare.

If you want to be in a relationship where you don't have to concern yourself with another's feelings AND plan to engage in high risk edge kink type play- get yourself a hamster.

If you are going to engage in high risk emotional edge kink play, you WILL have to concern yourself with the other persons state of emotion, short term and long term, before during and after the scene.

Now, that doesn't mean you will have to walk on eggshells or hold back- but it means that when you play with someone, you take some responsibility for making it a fulfilling experience for all involved.

A real issue is that you're even considering thinking that you have to give up something that you find very fulfilling for you just to get into a relationship with someone else.  That path never works either.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:23:52 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		No, I'm not the type to engage in that. I'd be more on the side of encouraging a sub with compliments for a job well done or for wearing her hair in a particular way for me.
I think you should encourage your sub or slave not degrade them.

(in reply to merrymischief2)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:37:10 AM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		 
Yes, I agree with LA that when and if you DID come across such a rare find, you'd better know how to handle them.  It is NOT 'all about' yelling & calling names.
 
This year at Thunder, MasterPhantom and his partner FemCar will be giving two presentations around the topic.  A bit of information is below:

http://www.thunderinthemountains.com/bios/PhantomMasterFemCar.htm

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:56:44 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Since you are asking, it is obviously somthing that is bothering you.  The best person to ask is your submissive/slave.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 11:16:18 AM   
litleone8620


Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline 		bWhat LA said was right on.

You need to make sure that whatever slave you choose to engage in verbal abuse with is emotionally sound. Calling someone names can emotionally destroy them if both of you aren't careful.

You also shouldn't give up on something you enjoy just because people don't agree with you. People are allowed their opinions of course, but that doesn't mean you have to agree with them.

Just remember, be aware of how your slave is feeling, and don't discount them, or down play them. Your slave's emotions are just as important as yours.




< Message edited by litleone8620 -- 7/21/2006 11:33:07 AM >

_____________________________

He who laughs last didn't get the joke


We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?

(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 11:27:08 AM   
DoctorDubious


Posts: 267
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERinVA

I am a Master and I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times.  For example, if a slave does something stupid I like being direct and telling him he's a idiot.  I'm finding that this is not generally accepted practice, yet I like it because it allows me to communicate openly and directly.  It is that open and direct communication that makes a Master/slave relationship much better for me than a vanilla relationship. 
 
I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up. 
 
If I do, I think it would ruin the dynamic of the M/s relationship for me because I would have to worry constantly about hurting my slave's feelings.

That would put me right back to the problems I have with regular relationships.





Hi MasterinVA.... and all

#1. Hey, if it works for you and your boys, whydafucknot?
 

I do find it interesting that you label this type of communication
as both "verbal abuse' and "open and direct communication".
Not being a "humiliatrix" myself, I found this kinda puzzling....

abuse = open + direct

hmmmmm....


>>if a slave does something stupid I like being direct and telling him he's a idiot
For me, there's a big, big difference
between what somebody does, and what somebody is.
If acting stupid means you are an idiot, then I'd guess we's all idiots... eh?

At least, I'm sure I am an idiotic old goat by your standards.

But really, I refer you back to point #1.



>>I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up. 

Why would you give a crap
about the opinions of a buncha bozos like me
on a forum like this? I'm just dickin' around here for fun....

I thought you were sure of yourself on this one.....


refer to #1 above.


>>That would put me right back to the problems I have with regular relationships

Yeah.... so "regular relationships" work completely differently
than one where a boy/man puts his whole life in your hands? 
That's cool how you do that.



>>If I do, I think it would ruin the dynamic of the M/s relationship for me because I would have to worry constantly about hurting my slave's feelings.

Now this one is really interesting.
Let's see if I got it straight....

Some man hands his life over to you.
If you don't give him verbal abuse, then you do have to constantly worry about hurting his feelings.

And if you do abuse and humiliate him, then you don't have to worry.

That's a fascinating way to look at things....


When in doubt, refer to #1. above.


DD
PS....childhood is full of silly lies told
to us by adults, who think they are a kindness....

Here's one of the biggest lies of childhood...

"Sticks and stones may break my bones,
but words will never hurt me".




(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 11:34:43 AM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		The scars emotional abuse leaves tend to be very nasty and will have an effect on the subs life from now on.  If the sub is into the name calling that is one thing but as a Master it is Your responsibility to take care that permanent harm is not done.  Ask Your sub only they know what is right for them and quite frankly if it isn't right for them they will leave eventually.

(in reply to litleone8620)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 2:09:59 PM   
EnglishDomNW


Posts: 493
Joined: 12/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERinVA

I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times.  

I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up. 


You asked for opinions, after stating that you prefer plain speech to tact - so you're going to get a completely unexpurgated and unedited opinion.
 
You're a jackass hiding behind the mask of BDSM consensuality to avoid being pegged as an abuser.  In YOUR OWN WORDS you state that you enjoy ABUSING those bound to you.  Abuse has no place in BDSM or anywhere else - because it has crossed the line from being Consensual Kink into being just what you called it yourself - Abuse.  Either give up the desire to abuse - or give up lying to yourself and everyone else about being involved in Consensual Kink.


This was a pretty abusive way to address someone in itself

< Message edited by EnglishDomNW -- 7/21/2006 2:17:54 PM >

_____________________________


"I am woman hear me roar!"

(Yes and I am Man, keep the noise down, bitch.)
.

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 2:35:00 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERinVA

I am a Master and I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times.  For example, if a slave does something stupid I like being direct and telling him he's a idiot.  I'm finding that this is not generally accepted practice, yet I like it because it allows me to communicate openly and directly.  It is that open and direct communication that makes a Master/slave relationship much better for me than a vanilla relationship.  I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up.  If I do, I think it would ruin the dynamic of the M/s relationship for me because I would have to worry constantly about hurting my slave's feelings. That would put me right back to the problems I have with regular relationships.


Hello MASTERinVA,

My Master calls me all sorts of things.....if I've been a fuckwit, he'll say so.........it's not so much what you say, as the context in which it's said and the relationship you have. I've never felt *hurt* when my Master is direct.....I jolly well KNOW that I'm a fuckwit at times...lol.

agirl



(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 2:58:44 PM   
LeatherBentOne


Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline 		I see many "red flags" in your post. 

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 3:03:57 PM   
SexyRed


Posts: 529
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERinVA

I am a Master and I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times.  For example, if a slave does something stupid I like being direct and telling him he's a idiot.  I'm finding that this is not generally accepted practice, yet I like it because it allows me to communicate openly and directly.  It is that open and direct communication that makes a Master/slave relationship much better for me than a vanilla relationship.  I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up.  If I do, I think it would ruin the dynamic of the M/s relationship for me because I would have to worry constantly about hurting my slave's feelings. That would put me right back to the problems I have with regular relationships.


Whether you are in a M/s relationship or vanilla, it is a good idea to try and avoid hurting someone's feelings. If verbal abuse is an agree upon scenario for you and yours, fine. But if you are simply wanting to be id-oriented and say whatever you wish at all times irregardless of someone, even a submissive's feelings, then you are being abusive and asking for license to be so.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!


(in reply to MASTERinVA)
Profile   Post #: 20
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