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RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 3:06:51 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

I see many "red flags" in your post.

There are no *red flags*.......I share a great relationship with lots of humour, fun and teasing..........being called a *fuckwit* isn't a *put down* ......it's a pretty accurate description of me at times.

What red flags are you imagining?

agirl

edited to add....... We probably have a quirky sense of humour, too.....lol

< Message edited by agirl -- 7/21/2006 3:08:25 PM >

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)

Post #: 21

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 3:29:14 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

Posts: 1672
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

You asked for opinions, after stating that you prefer plain speech to tact - so you're going to get a completely unexpurgated and unedited opinion.

This was a pretty abusive way to address someone in itself

I made it plain that I was not bothering to edit my opinion before stating it. When someone calls what they do abuse - justifying it by stating a preference for "plain speech" - they should be prepared for whatever happens to come their direction. For that matter, if someone bluntly asks for opinions from the general public, they should Also probably be prepared for whatever happens to come flying in their direction. Frankly, living in the US and being a bit of a rabid constitutionalist, I look at it this way: I will fight, and if need be die, to protect someone else's right to their opinion. Nowhere, however, does the constitution state that I have to AGREE with their opinion, nor lie to them when they ask for MY opinion.

I stated it that way, rather than editing my reaction, for a reason. The reason being to give him a small taste (should he bother to read the various replies) of what it's like to be on the recieving end of someone honestly not giving a flying shit how he feels about what's said to them concerning themselves. Do I think it's likely that such a lesson would actually be taken to heart by someone who professes themselves to enjoy abuse? No, however that's not going to stop me from making the attempt in the hope that they've got more functional brain cells than gut reaction tells me they possess.

edited to add : I personally have little use for political correctness - and even less use for jumping on the "let's all just be friends" bandwagon or the "whatever you do is just fine in the name of tolerance for others" bandwagon. I don't play the "go along to get along" game, and if I disagree with someone, I'm going to state that I disagree with them. How I state my disagreement is going to depend on what it is I disagree with and whether I am attempting to make a subtle point.

< Message edited by hizgeorgiapeach -- 7/21/2006 3:31:57 PM >

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)

Post #: 22

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 3:52:52 PM

irishbynature

Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERinVA
I am a Master and I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times. For example, if a slave does something stupid I like being direct and telling him he's a idiot. I'm finding that this is not generally accepted practice, yet I like it because it allows me to communicate openly and directly. It is that open and direct communication that makes a Master/slave relationship much better for me than a vanilla relationship. I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up. If I do, I think it would ruin the dynamic of the M/s relationship for me because I would have to worry constantly about hurting my slave's feelings. That would put me right back to the problems I have with regular relationships.

As I first read the opening lines of your post, I thought, "He must be kidding...there's a punch line in this somewhere??"

So, basically, you would like a slave with low self-esteem and low self-worth, rather than one who will serve you out of loving herself enough first to care for you or even listen to your needs?

*Shakes head* and worries for the person who would gravitate to such behavior....and hopes they'd had a better one before you to compare too.....((((SIGHS!)))

_____________________________

What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller

(in reply to MASTERinVA)

Post #: 23

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 3:56:05 PM

irishbynature

Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

quote:

ORIGINAL: MASTERinVA
I like to use verbal abuse including put-downs at times.
I'd like to know if others think I need to give this up.

You asked for opinions, after stating that you prefer plain speech to tact - so you're going to get a completely unexpurgated and unedited opinion.

You're a jackass hiding behind the mask of BDSM consensuality to avoid being pegged as an abuser. In YOUR OWN WORDS you state that you enjoy ABUSING those bound to you. Abuse has no place in BDSM or anywhere else - because it has crossed the line from being Consensual Kink into being just what you called it yourself - Abuse. Either give up the desire to abuse - or give up lying to yourself and everyone else about being involved in Consensual Kink.

Hizgeorgiapeach! You're friggen AWESOME!

You said it SO MUCH better than me!!!! High Five!

_____________________________

What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)

Post #: 24

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 4:25:56 PM

Invictus754

Posts: 521
Joined: 12/16/2005
Status: offline

Fast reply:

I think that both Masters and subs/slaves are responsible for whatever they get themselves into. If someone is called an idiot and it hurts his feelings, so be it. As one poster said, "...it would roll off me like water on a ducks back because I know it isn't true".

If some sub/slave puts himself into a position where he gets this treatment, he asked for it by not doing his homework. If his boy doesn't like being called an idiot, he should pack his belongings and hit the road. [Oops...he doesn't have to pack, because he doesn't own anything...lol ] It's his choice to take the abuse. And as some others have pointed out it does float some boats. All the OP has to do is lob out a couple of offensive "Hey, weaseldick, you ignorant fuck! you didn't follow the Supreme Omnipotent Being's command to the nth degree as It Is Written in the Holy House Rules!" comments, and see who shouts "surf's up!"

Remember: Mental retards make the best slaves.

_____________________________

You never know your limits, until you push them
If slavery is a gift, the Africans were pretty fucking generous in the 1700 and 1800s, weren't they?

(in reply to irishbynature)

Post #: 25

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 4:31:25 PM

Rayne58

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

I had enough putdowns when I was married

I don't want that anymore

Master can call me "slut" and I'll just go all weak at the knees.....because I'm HIS slut no one else's and to us it's a term of endearment and pride that I'm able to be so passionate and open with Him. However if He were to call me an idiot and stupid it would hurt no end. My self esteem took a real battering during 23 years of marriage to Mr Butthead (as he is not so affectionately referred to in our house). It's been 4 years of hard work to get myself where I am now, I know that any kind of verbal abuse would be a total deal breaker

(in reply to irishbynature)

Post #: 26

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 5:07:02 PM

deltadawn

Posts: 224
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

I would ask those you are involved with.

For me, I do much better with encouragment than I would ever do with being called idiotic. So for me..I would walk away.

dawn

_____________________________

Beneath his wings, I can fly.

(in reply to MASTERinVA)

Post #: 27

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 5:22:21 PM

akisha

Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline

As a submissive it's not something i'd personally respond well to but there are all different kinds of people. I'm guessing some like verbal humiliation. For me, it just pisses me off.

If i do something wrong i expect to be told but i would hope that i would be told as a thinking feeling adult not a brainless animal. but that is just my view of things.

All people make mistakes. I'm assuming if you screwed up and your submissive told you you were a freekin idiot and a moron it probably would not go over well.

We make mistakes because we are tired, distressed, unhappy, thinking of something else. Would it not be more conductive to find out why the mistake was made rather then start calling them down? Having grown up with a step father that consistantly put other people down to make himself feel superior I do not see how this type of behavoir would ever enhance the service of your submissive. They would just start believing what you keep hammering into their head. That they are stupid and worthless. Then they would probably give up even bothering to try to please you because really.. what is the point if trying if they think that they are too stupid or worthless to get it right anyway.

But then again that is just how i view it. If you find someone that enjoys being treated as such, I wish you both the best of luck and all the happiness in the world.

akisha

< Message edited by akisha -- 7/21/2006 5:27:28 PM >

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to SexyRed)

Post #: 28

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 5:34:45 PM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline

Fast Reply:

I think cinful hit the nail on the head with her comments regarding the gay population. Most of the women here are responding as they would in Mf relationships. Mm relationships are often QUITE different. I bet, percentage wise, the OP will find lotsa guys who like his 'brand of play'.

Still, like LA said...there ARE submissive women who enjoy it too.

Good luck and take care, kid.

(in reply to SexyRed)

Post #: 29

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 5:43:57 PM

Sunshine119

Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

If some sub/slave puts himself into a position where he gets this treatment, he asked for it by not doing his homework. If his boy doesn't like being called an idiot, he should pack his belongings and hit the road. [Oops...he doesn't have to pack, because he doesn't own anything...lol ]

My feelings exactly. After reading MASTERinVA's profile, I figured any person who replied to his ad was either: 1. Not sane, 2. A newby caught in sub fever (until asked to sign over everything he owns) or 3. Wants this kind of abuse.

As a person who considers herself sane and not a newby in sub fever, I'd have to vote that this guy is some kind of abusive narcisist that needs to have others to demean in order to feel superior and is using this lifestyle to validate abuse. But, hey, there is also someone willing to fulfill his fantasy.....at least for a moment or two. Too bad the sub will leave with nothing when he finally gets fed up with being treated like this 24/7.

I really DO love to read the profiles of the newbies here. Some are hillarious!

_____________________________

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

(in reply to Invictus754)

Post #: 30

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 6:08:10 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

Fast Reply...not aimed at anyone in general.

I think there may be a lot of assumptions going on here, which is only to be expected on a forum.

Verbal humiliation is a hot-button topic, but please keep in mind the OP asked about gay male M/s relationships, not female subs, in D/s relationships. They are not the same thing.

Lots of gay male slaves love to be treated exactly as the OP is suggestion, and his profile actually reflects some pretty common gay male M/s dynamics. I know this because I have gay friends in the lifestyle. The drill sargeant/lower-than-a-worm recruit is a common hot fantasy for kinky gay men.

No, not every gay male slave will want this...and the OP simply has to use his desire for open, direct, communication to find the ones who do.

Yes, I did see one possible red-flag, which may or not have read as intended. The OP stated he didn't want to worry about his slave's feelings. He may simply mean that since it is obviously usual for him to speak this way he would rather not be with someone who will get hurt by it. He would be wise then, to find someone who enjoys it.

My last comment is that he may have used the word abuse in a more general way, which is not uncommon among people new to the lifestyle, and not to literally mean he likes to be a nonconsensual abuser.

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Sunshine119)

Post #: 31

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 6:22:34 PM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Invictus754

Fast reply:

I think that both Masters and subs/slaves are responsible for whatever they get themselves into. If someone is called an idiot and it hurts his feelings, so be it. As one poster said, "...it would roll off me like water on a ducks back because I know it isn't true".

If some sub/slave puts himself into a position where he gets this treatment, he asked for it by not doing his homework. If his boy doesn't like being called an idiot, he should pack his belongings and hit the road. [Oops...he doesn't have to pack, because he doesn't own anything...lol ] It's his choice to take the abuse. And as some others have pointed out it does float some boats. All the OP has to do is lob out a couple of offensive "Hey, weaseldick, you ignorant fuck! you didn't follow the Supreme Omnipotent Being's command to the nth degree as It Is Written in the Holy House Rules!" comments, and see who shouts "surf's up!"

Remember: Mental retards make the best slaves.

Was this sarcasm?

(in reply to Invictus754)

Post #: 32

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 6:24:49 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

I think this is one thing that needs to be established right at the start. There are people that like the insults, humiliation, and degradation. However there are some that really find it very offensive and hurtful. And that is why you need to establish this limit before you even attempt to use it.

An insult meant for play can be taken very seriously by the submissive and destroy the whole relationship or scene.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)

Post #: 33

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 7:56:32 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Your kink is not my kink..I have been taught to say this everytime I feel judgmental..

Now that disclaimer is out of the way... If I had a dominant that had no control over his mouth in talking to me I would not be his sub for very long. If he couldn't stop insulting drivel from leaking out his piehole I would wonder how intelligent he was. I would find that I was more in control over myself than he was, because I at least can censor my own mouth. I would think my intellect superior because I could at least communicate without tearing him down.

That being said, you might find a sub that likes this and wants to be talked to like nothing but a shitpile, good luck in your quest.. it might take awhile for you to find what you need.

..So fully agree with you Julia...Tempting

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 34

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 8:19:58 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

~ fast reply ~

I'm in agreement with LA's post. Master can call me stupid or idiot whenever he wants to. Why? Because I know he would never own an idiot, and I know he thinks rather highly of me. So if he is saying that, it's for effect, and he gets the effect he wants. And I don't mind the effect either.

But...I didn't start out being easily called that (nor does he call me those things very often). First time I did something stupid and he called me a stupid slut, I burst into tears. Now he could call me that and I'd grovel at his feet, lustfully. But it took work on his part, to bring me to live in the right mindset.

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

Post #: 35

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:22:03 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

I've been tagged abusive for telling past girls to get over themselves when they insisted on incessant drama. I've posted in other threads about how I refuse to placate someone who insists on beating themselves up.

I do consider that to be self-indulgent and recidivist.

And I will not hesitate to express my contempt for the lack of emotinal self control. Because it's a manipulative ploy for attention, that is not deserved.

(in reply to MASTERinVA)

Post #: 36

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:40:18 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I've been tagged abusive for telling past girls to get over themselves when they insisted on incessant drama. I've posted in other threads about how I refuse to placate someone who insists on beating themselves up.

I do consider that to be self-indulgent and recidivist.

And I will not hesitate to express my contempt for the lack of emotinal self control. Because it's a manipulative ploy for attention, that is not deserved.

Ever hear of that saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure? Perhaps the trouble wasn't just with them, maybe it was with both of you... You picked them after all.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 37

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:43:01 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

It's sort of like marriage.

They don't show it, until they think they have you nailed down.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 38

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:50:09 PM

akisha

Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

I've been tagged abusive for telling past girls to get over themselves when they insisted on incessant drama. I've posted in other threads about how I refuse to placate someone who insists on beating themselves up.

I do consider that to be self-indulgent and recidivist.

And I will not hesitate to express my contempt for the lack of emotinal self control. Because it's a manipulative ploy for attention, that is not deserved.

quote:

It's sort of like marriage.

They don't show it, until they think they have you nailed down.

I actually agree with both these statements, but it's not just women that play this game. That i learned from personal experience.

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 39

RE: Verbal Abuse & Put-downs - 7/21/2006 10:53:14 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

Uh huh.
Being an asshole is not dependent on sex or role.

But they stink, any way you look at it.

(in reply to akisha)

Post #: 40

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