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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 6:32:04 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/11120184/gun-control-study-international-evidence

Santaella-Tenorio's study (co-authored with Columbia professors Magdalena Cerdá and Sandro Galea, as well as the University of North Carolina's Andrés Villaveces) examined roughly 130 studies that had been conducted in 10 different countries. Each of those 130 studies had looked at some specific change in gun laws and its effect on homicide and/or suicide rates. Most of those 130 studies looked at law changes in the developed world, such as the US, Australia, and Austria. A few looked at gun laws in developing countries, specifically Brazil and South Africa.

This isn't, then, a study that compiled its own original data on one specific gun law. It's actually more valuable than that: It's telling us what all the different studies on individual laws say when you examine them put together.

So what do Santaella-Tenorio et al. conclude? First, and most importantly, that gun violence declined after countries pass a raft of gun laws at the same time: "The simultaneous implementation of laws targeting multiple firearms restrictions is associated with reductions in firearm deaths," the study finds.


Of course, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, even boy Castro enacted strict gun control laws that all worked well. Well, unless Che Was lining you up against a wall. I invite you to find such a place and enjoy it's nirvana.

Right, so Japan's strict gun laws have led to which problems besides dropping the number of murders, then?


Japan's culture is different than ours. Hey, for us, if you exclude gang bangers, we're just as civil as any other nation. It's a falicy to think that America is violent when the violence actually coming from one culture that exists within the U.S. Your arguments are fallacious. Scandinavian countries require guys to go into the Army and send his high tech military rifle home when he leaves the army. The guy is then required to practice with that rifle for the rest of his life. With every man having an automatic weapon under the bed, their culture has low violence rates as low gun crimes. It's not the guns, it's the culture and it's not American culture generally, it's a small group within American future.

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 6:39:34 PM   
Musicmystery


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And he writes fiction too!

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 8:04:05 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Japan's culture is different than ours. Hey, for us, if you exclude gang bangers, we're just as civil as any other nation. It's a falicy to think that America is violent when the violence actually coming from one culture that exists within the U.S.


That is great news from you that in the US white people don't kill, or ever beat wives or girlfriends.

But, we all await with bated breath to hear exactly what that "one culture that exists within the U.S." is that tumbles the apple cart there.


quote:

Your arguments are fallacious. Scandinavian countries require guys to go into the Army and send his high tech military rifle home when he leaves the army. The guy is then required to practice with that rifle for the rest of his life. With every man having an automatic weapon under the bed, their culture has low violence rates as low gun crimes. It's not the guns, it's the culture and it's not American culture generally, it's a small group within American future.


That's Switzerland, not Scandinavian countries, and they don't have to practice shooting for the rest of their life, and the gun is in the closet or attic, not under the bed.

quote:

it's not American culture generally,


You might have a point, there. We cannot claim that the actions of police are 'American culture' with any great degree of certainty. But can't entirely rule it out, either.

"it's a small group within American future."

Again I'll ask: that 'small group' being?






< Message edited by Edwird -- 6/14/2016 8:06:05 PM >

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 8:21:59 PM   
Nnanji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
Japan's culture is different than ours. Hey, for us, if you exclude gang bangers, we're just as civil as any other nation. It's a falicy to think that America is violent when the violence actually coming from one culture that exists within the U.S.


That is great news from you that in the US white people don't kill, or ever beat wives or girlfriends.

But, we all await with bated breath to hear exactly what that "one culture that exists within the U.S." is that tumbles the apple cart there.


quote:

Your arguments are fallacious. Scandinavian countries require guys to go into the Army and send his high tech military rifle home when he leaves the army. The guy is then required to practice with that rifle for the rest of his life. With every man having an automatic weapon under the bed, their culture has low violence rates as low gun crimes. It's not the guns, it's the culture and it's not American culture generally, it's a small group within American future.


That's Switzerland, not Scandinavian countries, and they don't have to practice shooting for the rest of their life, and the gun is in the closet or attic, not under the bed.

quote:

it's not American culture generally,


You might have a point, there. We cannot claim that the actions of police are 'American culture' with any great degree of certainty. But can't entirely rule it out, either.

"it's a small group within American future."

Again I'll ask: that 'small group' being?






I believe I said it earlier. Gang Bangers shooting each other. My understanding is that gang bangers come in all races, so if you were trying to catch me in a racist remark, your slip is showing. And, I'm sure you read where I said it before, so your post was silly.

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 8:35:43 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

I believe I said it earlier.


Maybe you did. So why the reluctance to repeat it, or provide a link for same?

In any case, I don't recall that specific nomination in this thread or any other that you have chosen to sully with your incoherent drivel.

quote:

And, I'm sure you read where I said it before,


No, I didn't. But the point is, you are leaving others in the dark, here, whether I had actually read such a thing or not.

What, are you ashamed to say it?

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:00:59 PM   
Termyn8or


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"That's Switzerland, not Scandinavian countries, and they don't have to practice shooting for the rest of their life, and the gun is in the closet or attic, not under the bed. "

That is because they are not living in Chicago or Detroit.

T^T

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:08:59 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods
Right, so Japan's strict gun laws have led to which problems besides dropping the number of murders, then?

When we talk about successful gun free countries, can we not mention countries like Australia and Japan which is an Island on it's own, surrounded by waters, who's borders are soooo much easier to manage? Pretty hard to swim over, and easier to spot ships illegally entering!

They do not have the same border security disaster as the US.

They are not next door to third world countries filled with corruption, gangs and just big messes!

Switzerland also borders four pretty first world country, France , Germany, Italy, Austria. Switzerland isn't near any country strife with corruption.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 6/14/2016 9:14:15 PM >

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:16:50 PM   
Termyn8or


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Doesn't matter Greta because there are few gun manufacturers in Mexico and Canada.

But I pose this question to all.

I know someone who is so tough, I mean Bruce Lee tough who can take your gun away because he is so fast, and then kill you with his bare hands.

Do you propose we cut his arms and legs off ? I mean really, so fast that I would have to shoot him in the back. So strong that he could just grab my arm and I would be unable to shoot him. And then could break my neck with one hand.

How do all you civilised people suppose we disarm him ?

And I am not kidding, I will give you the guy's address and not tell him and you can go ahead and sneak in. I give you about a 20 % chance of survival. And that is survival to get to a hospital.

Now if that guy committed a felony and was not allowed to have guns, but his body is more deadly than guns, just how do you suppose we disarm him ?

T^T

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:26:59 PM   
Dvr22999874


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greta, have a look at a map of Northern Queensland, the Torres Strait and Southern New Guinea......................the natives of both countries go backwards and forwards daily in tiny little dinghies with very small outboard motors. It takes just a few hours.They are even known to paddle to and fro in canoes. New Guinea borders on a country where new and used firearms are readily available and corruption is rife. Northern Australia is also dotted with small, unmarked airstrips; some even left over from the last war. Our northern border leaks like a sieve and yet Australia can still be called a relatively gun-free country. Maybe because the vast majority of people here just aren't interested in owning one I guess.

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:35:26 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/29/11120184/gun-control-study-international-evidence

Santaella-Tenorio's study (co-authored with Columbia professors Magdalena Cerdá and Sandro Galea, as well as the University of North Carolina's Andrés Villaveces) examined roughly 130 studies that had been conducted in 10 different countries. Each of those 130 studies had looked at some specific change in gun laws and its effect on homicide and/or suicide rates. Most of those 130 studies looked at law changes in the developed world, such as the US, Australia, and Austria. A few looked at gun laws in developing countries, specifically Brazil and South Africa.

This isn't, then, a study that compiled its own original data on one specific gun law. It's actually more valuable than that: It's telling us what all the different studies on individual laws say when you examine them put together.

So what do Santaella-Tenorio et al. conclude? First, and most importantly, that gun violence declined after countries pass a raft of gun laws at the same time: "The simultaneous implementation of laws targeting multiple firearms restrictions is associated with reductions in firearm deaths," the study finds.




I agree we need better gun control.


US Sponsored Genocide Against Iraq 1990-2012. Killed 3.3 Million, Including 750,000 Children

Statement by Professor Francis Boyle, Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal


Approximately 3.3 million Iraqis, including 750,000 children, were “exterminated” by economic sanctions and/or illegal wars conducted by the U.S. and Great Britain between 1990 and 2012, an eminent international legal authority says.

The slaughter fits the classic definition of Genocide Convention Article II of, “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part,” says Francis Boyle, professor of international law at the University of Illinois, Champaign, and who in 1991 filed a class-action complaint with the UN against President George H.W. Bush.

The U.S. and U.K. “obstinately insisted” that their sanctions remain in place until after the “illegal” Gulf War II aggression perpetrated by President George W. Bush and UK’s Tony Blair in March, 2003, “not with a view to easing the over decade-long suffering of the Iraqi people and children” but “to better facilitate the U.S./U.K. unsupervised looting and plundering of the Iraqi economy and oil fields in violation of the international laws of war as well as to the grave detriment of the Iraqi people,” Boyle said.

In an address last Nov. 22 to The International Conference on War-affected Children in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, Boyle tallied the death toll on Iraq by U.S.-U.K. actions as follows:

# The slaughter of 200,000 Iraqis by President Bush in his illegal 1991 Gulf War I.

# The deaths of 1.4 million Iraqis as a result of the illegal 2003 war of aggression ordered by President Bush Jr. and Prime Minister Blair.

# The deaths of 1.7 million Iraqis “as a direct result” of the genocidal sanctions.


Boyle’s class-action complaint demanded an end to all economic sanctions against Iraq; criminal proceedings for genocide against President George H.W. Bush; monetary compensation to the children of Iraq and their families for deaths, physical and mental injury; and for shipping massive humanitarian relief supplies to that country.

The “grossly hypocritical” UN refused to terminate the sanctions, Boyle pointed out, even though its own Food and Agricultural Organization’s Report estimated that by 1995 the sanctions had killed 560,000 Iraqi children during the previous five years.

Boyle noted that then U.S. Secretary of State Madeline Albright was interviewed on CBS-TV on May 12, 1996, in response to a question by Leslie Stahl if the price of half a million dead children was worth it, and replied, “we (the U.S. government) think the price is worth it.”

Albright’s shocking response provides “proof positive of the genocidal intent by the U.S. government against Iraq” under the Genocide Convention, Boyle said, adding that the government of Iraq today could still bring legal action against the U.S. and the U.K. in the International Court of Justice. He said the U.S.-U.K. genocide also violated the municipal legal systems of all civilized nations in the world; the 1989 Convention on the Rights of the Child; and the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 and its Additional Protocol 1 of 1977.

Boyle, who was stirred to take action pro bono by Mothers in Iraq after the economic sanctions had been imposed upon them by the Security Council in August, 1990, in response to pressure from the Bush Senior Administration. He is the author of numerous books on international affairs, including “Destroying World Order” (Clarity Press.) The original source of this article is UK Progressive


What do you think MM, this is the place to start and when the people who murder for oil greed and power have no guns then we can give up ours fair enough?


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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:41:41 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

greta, have a look at a map of Northern Queensland, the Torres Strait and Southern New Guinea......................the natives of both countries go backwards and forwards daily in tiny little dinghies with very small outboard motors. It takes just a few hours.They are even known to paddle to and fro in canoes. New Guinea borders on a country where new and used firearms are readily available and corruption is rife. Northern Australia is also dotted with small, unmarked airstrips; some even left over from the last war. Our northern border leaks like a sieve and yet Australia can still be called a relatively gun-free country. Maybe because the vast majority of people here just aren't interested in owning one I guess.

Except, Australia is one of the craziest country in the world on border security! They let nothing in! They are super anal!

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:43:32 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Doesn't matter Greta because there are few gun manufacturers in Mexico and Canada.


When guns are outlawed, black market will strive. And the Mexicans are sure hell gonna profit from it somehow! They will find the guns to smuggle in and sell.

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:45:14 PM   
Dvr22999874


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greta, I used to work for DOTARS, which was an offshoot of ASIO and I have to tell you, stuff was coming in there like it was the main freight yard in Sydney. Usually dope but very often guns or a mixture. We knew it. ASIO knew it but what are you going to do about it ? The country is so thinly populated up there, you could march an army over it without being noticed. They would probably all die of thirst very quickly but nobody would notice for a couple of weeks.

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:50:51 PM   
Dvr22999874


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And if you check out the chain of islands going north of New Guinea, you will see it is very easy to island-hop and every one of thise countries is about as corrupt as you want to get, until maybe you get to Sg

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:56:46 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Switzerland also borders four pretty first world country, France , Germany, Italy, Austria.


You left out Liechtenstein!

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 9:59:44 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Is Lichtenstein a country ? I thought it was a Duchy. But she did forget about poor little Luxembourg, although it's not quite on the border

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 10:03:09 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Is Lichtenstein a country ? I thought it was a Duchy. But she did forget about poor little Luxembourg, although it's not quite on the border

Technically, it is a country, although it refers to itself as a principality. I've always wanted to visit.


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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 10:06:12 PM   
Edwird


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"That's Switzerland, not Scandinavian countries, and they don't have to practice shooting for the rest of their life, and the gun is in the closet or attic, not under the bed. "

That is because they are not living in Chicago or Detroit.

T^T


You might have a point, there.

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 10:14:38 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Awareness....................did you ever see the movie "The Mouse That Roared'? with Peter Sellers playing multiple parts and set in the fictional country of Galardia ? I always thought of Lichtenstein being a similar place *smile*

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RE: International study of gun control finds strong evi... - 6/14/2016 10:19:06 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

So what do Santaella-Tenorio et al. conclude? First, and most importantly, that gun violence declined after countries pass a raft of gun laws at the same time: "The simultaneous implementation of laws targeting multiple firearms restrictions is associated with reductions in firearm deaths," the study finds.

Additionally...
    Australia's 1996 National Firearms Agreement (which outright confiscated 650,000 guns, in addition to imposing background checks and licensing rules) is perhaps the best-studied of any of the international laws. Santaella-Tenorio et al. reviewed eight studies on it, most of which found clear and strong evidence of a reduction in firearm deaths after the law's passage....

    Santaella-Tenorio and his colleagues included the United States in their overall review, of course. They found something interesting here too: Generally speaking, there's strong consensus that restricting access to guns tends to reduce gun deaths.
I'm fairly sure that if we outlawed automobiles there would be a significant reduction in highway fatalities, too. But that wouldn't be the whole story, and I don't think reductions in firearms deaths are either. Homicide rates (overall) fell in the United States for decades during which the number of states allowing concealed carry expanded from 9 to 42. Quality of life issues arise as well: The value of reduced firearms deaths at the price of rendering law-abiding citizens more subject to assaults, muggings and rapes, seems debatable. I would think the right to self-defense a fairly basic human right.

More...
    Rather, countries passed big packages of gun laws, which overhauled the nation's firearm code fairly broadly, which all tended to share similar features. According to Santaella-Tenorio, they generally included:

      Banning "weapons that are actually very powerful," like automatic weapons.
      "They all implemented background checks."
      "They all required permits and licenses for purchasing guns."
The United States already has the second two, and the record shows that defining "very powerful" has fueled much chicanery, like creative definitions of "assault" rifles. That said, however, there are some things that could and should be done. Nobody wants guns in the wrong hands. Fixing and adequately funding our background check system would be a good place to start.

FixNICS

K.

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