RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process?

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Termyn8or -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 8:52:58 PM)
"At pearl the operaters report the Japanese and were told it was a flight of B-17a expected in that morning." Across the ocean ? T^T

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 8:57:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "At pearl the operaters report the Japanese and were told it was a flight of B-17a expected in that morning." Across the ocean ? T^T Yes They were stripped of guns and of course had no bombs. But how do you think they would get them there? Or for that matter to England.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 9:39:50 PM)
And I would guess it all depended on where they were coming from. If from the north, maybe Seattle or similar, they would possibly use favourable wind currents to help them on their way and conserve fuel at the same time. That could possibly cause them to come in on a curving route over the ocean I would guess. As I have no idea where they were built, that is only a wild guess though. I do know it still happens today with planes taking what look like really weird and circuitous routes but that are actually quicker and more economical.

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 9:46:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 And I would guess it all depended on where they were coming from. If from the north, maybe Seattle or similar, they would possibly use favourable wind currents to help them on their way and conserve fuel at the same time. That could possibly cause them to come in on a curving route over the ocean I would guess. As I have no idea where they were built, that is only a wild guess though. I do know it still happens today with planes taking what look like really weird and circuitous routes but that are actually quicker and more economical. Boeing was based in Washington. Don't know what route they took, I just know they did it.

Termyn8or -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 9:57:12 PM)
Y'know, even without RADAR people could use binoculars to see planes coming. So y'all are telling me that the official story now is that they though those JAPANESE BOMBERS MADE BY MITSUBISHI looked exactly like the planes that were just built and simply being delivered to Pearl Harbor OFF SCHEDULE. From what, Oregon or something instead of across the ocean ? And they could not tell the difference ? IN WARTIME ? Is that what the fuck you are trying to tell me ? What's next, that the attack was for NO REASON ? Just like 911. There was good reason for those people to attack. If they did to us what we did to them we would be a bunch of attacking motherfuckers to no end. And you expect me to believe the US government did not expect any retaliation ? So what they did to Japan, they figured Japan would not retaliate ? Or what. I was born in the morning, but not this morning. If you fuck with people they fuck back, not like the little worms we grow here, except for the few ones with some goddamn gonads who do fight back, like Bundy. And BTW, he is still not in jail. Even the government's courts cannot rule against him BECAUSE HE IS RIGHT. T^T

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 10:06:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Y'know, even without RADAR people could use binoculars to see planes coming. So y'all are telling me that the official story now is that they though those JAPANESE BOMBERS MADE BY MITSUBISHI looked exactly like the planes that were just built and simply being delivered to Pearl Harbor OFF SCHEDULE. From what, Oregon or something instead of across the ocean ? And they could not tell the difference ? IN WARTIME ? Is that what the fuck you are trying to tell me ? What's next, that the attack was for NO REASON ? Just like 911. There was good reason for those people to attack. If they did to us what we did to them we would be a bunch of attacking motherfuckers to no end. And you expect me to believe the US government did not expect any retaliation ? So what they did to Japan, they figured Japan would not retaliate ? Or what. I was born in the morning, but not this morning. If you fuck with people they fuck back, not like the little worms we grow here, except for the few ones with some goddamn gonads who do fight back, like Bundy. And BTW, he is still not in jail. Even the government's courts cannot rule against him BECAUSE HE IS RIGHT. T^T When they got close enough to see with binoculars it was too late. once they could see them they knew they were noi B-17s but by that time is was too late. It was peacetime here, the bases were on a peacetime Sunday morning schedule. And what do you think we did to the Japanese that was so terrible that they were justified in attacking us? We quit selling them things that would help them overrun China, you think that was terrible? We encouraged others to do the same.

ifmaz -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 10:08:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Y'know, even without RADAR people could use binoculars to see planes coming. So y'all are telling me that the official story now is that they though those JAPANESE BOMBERS MADE BY MITSUBISHI looked exactly like the planes that were just built and simply being delivered to Pearl Harbor OFF SCHEDULE. From what, Oregon or something instead of across the ocean ? And they could not tell the difference ? IN WARTIME ? ... We were not at war with Japan at the time of Pearl Harbor.

Termyn8or -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 10:11:04 PM)
"Boeing was based in Washington. Don't know what route they took, I just know they did it. " So they had no idea which way these planes were coming from ? Did these Japanese plane fly over the whole US to get there ? That was impractical at the time, they probably would have needed refueling. I firmly believe the US government let it happen on purpose to engage in WW2. And I still ask the question about 911, with a half trillion dollar offense budget, were they complicit or incompetent ? It had to be oe or the other or it would not have happened. And don't gimme that there were no AF bases in between, WHY NOT ? We got what, 150 of them all over the world ? There should be one in every city for this kind of money. We have no defense. Arabs could hijack jets from other countries and do the same fucking thing again, and we don't have an "iron dome" like the one we paid for for Israel. ON TOP OF THE THREE BILLION A YEAR. Qualitative Military Edge, look it up. Some foreign aid is OK. Supporting allies is OK. But at least defend us dammit ! Ad they don't, and they don't defend us against criminals they breed with their generations of welfare and don't want us to be able to defend ourselves, but the supreme court put a stopper on that bullshit a few years ago. Beam me up Scotty. T^T

Termyn8or -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 10:19:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Y'know, even without RADAR people could use binoculars to see planes coming. So y'all are telling me that the official story now is that they though those JAPANESE BOMBERS MADE BY MITSUBISHI looked exactly like the planes that were just built and simply being delivered to Pearl Harbor OFF SCHEDULE. From what, Oregon or something instead of across the ocean ? And they could not tell the difference ? IN WARTIME ? ... We were not at war with Japan at the time of Pearl Harbor. Yeah but we hadn't ordered a bunch of planes from them either. Also note that we had committed act of war against them. These fucking assholes believe, and have for some time, that there will be no consequences for their actions. And they are right. They do the actions and we bear the consequences. It is time to start burning them at the stake. You think the people who ordered the embargoes on Japan suffered at Pearl Harbor ? You think the people who use OUR FUCKING MONEY to support the house of Saud suffered in the 911 attack ? No, they live in ivory towers somewhere and you can't even get their phone number, let alone address. And if you do, they got armed guards, and want to take our guns away. T^T

Termyn8or -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 10:22:34 PM)
And it is obvious that if you got a shitload of war planes coming at you they are not there to deliver a rice pizza. T^T

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 10:29:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "Boeing was based in Washington. Don't know what route they took, I just know they did it. " So they had no idea which way these planes were coming from ? Did these Japanese plane fly over the whole US to get there ? That was impractical at the time, they probably would have needed refueling. I firmly believe the US government let it happen on purpose to engage in WW2. And I still ask the question about 911, with a half trillion dollar offense budget, were they complicit or incompetent ? It had to be oe or the other or it would not have happened. And don't gimme that there were no AF bases in between, WHY NOT ? We got what, 150 of them all over the world ? There should be one in every city for this kind of money. We have no defense. Arabs could hijack jets from other countries and do the same fucking thing again, and we don't have an "iron dome" like the one we paid for for Israel. ON TOP OF THE THREE BILLION A YEAR. Qualitative Military Edge, look it up. Some foreign aid is OK. Supporting allies is OK. But at least defend us dammit ! Ad they don't, and they don't defend us against criminals they breed with their generations of welfare and don't want us to be able to defend ourselves, but the supreme court put a stopper on that bullshit a few years ago. Beam me up Scotty. T^T I said I didn't know, I didn't say they didn't, and apparently the Japanese came in from roughly the same course the B-17s were expected to. Of course the Japanese planes didn't need bases or refuling, they were carrier based. Thus they could come in from any direction. In both cases we were complacint and lax.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 10:43:07 PM)
I believe, but don't quote me, that back then, a plane would approach Pearl from the N.W. or N.N.W. and that was the approximate direction the Japanese came from. You would have to ask somebody a bit more clued-up about flying into Pearl in 1941 than I am. There is much to believe or conjecture about, but there is no way of KNOWING for sure, at this late stage. You can bet a penny to a pinch of pig-poop that there either were no incriminating documents left lying around or they have long since been destroyed, if the scenario is as you say Termy. If it's not, then there WERE no documents in the first place........................you also have to remember that most people back then were almost brainwashed into believing what the government told them was the truth. Like I said, you can believe but you can't know now.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 11:10:23 PM)
saraah, just bought some books from a bookfest here last week and one of them was a souvenir book of Pearl Harbour and I have a feeling it might tell the story a bit better than I can fumble my way through it. I am pretty sure it shows the routes the Japanese took across the Pacific. I will see if I can find it later and tell you what it has to say........................It's somewhere in amongst another 3000 books though, so may take a while smile

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 11:32:32 PM)
My apologies gentlemen. I was wrong. The Japanese fleets came in from three directions. They came in from due north, almost due west and a sort of sweep around to the west-south-west. The northerly route would have been the approximate route those Forts would have been coming in from Washington I guess and you have to remember a couple of things; firstly the operators were unfamiliar with that radar as it was newly installed, second the bulk of the island shielded the Japanese until they were almost into the attack-run and third, as has been pointed out, the island was not on a war-footing yet and everybody had knocked off for the weekend and was winding down for Christmas. The same thing would happen here if you attacked Australia on Melbourne Cup day.........................you would find two cleaners and a drovers dog manning the war department !!!!

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 11:34:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Y'know, even without RADAR people could use binoculars to see planes coming. So y'all are telling me that the official story now is that they though those JAPANESE BOMBERS MADE BY MITSUBISHI looked exactly like the planes that were just built and simply being delivered to Pearl Harbor OFF SCHEDULE. From what, Oregon or something instead of across the ocean ? And they could not tell the difference ? IN WARTIME ? Is that what the fuck you are trying to tell me ? What's next, that the attack was for NO REASON ? Just like 911. There was good reason for those people to attack. If they did to us what we did to them we would be a bunch of attacking motherfuckers to no end. And you expect me to believe the US government did not expect any retaliation ? So what they did to Japan, they figured Japan would not retaliate ? Or what. I was born in the morning, but not this morning. If you fuck with people they fuck back, not like the little worms we grow here, except for the few ones with some goddamn gonads who do fight back, like Bundy. And BTW, he is still not in jail. Even the government's courts cannot rule against him BECAUSE HE IS RIGHT. T^T Just what do you think we did to the Japanese?

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 11:36:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Y'know, even without RADAR people could use binoculars to see planes coming. So y'all are telling me that the official story now is that they though those JAPANESE BOMBERS MADE BY MITSUBISHI looked exactly like the planes that were just built and simply being delivered to Pearl Harbor OFF SCHEDULE. From what, Oregon or something instead of across the ocean ? And they could not tell the difference ? IN WARTIME ? ... We were not at war with Japan at the time of Pearl Harbor. Yeah but we hadn't ordered a bunch of planes from them either. Also note that we had committed act of war against them. These fucking assholes believe, and have for some time, that there will be no consequences for their actions. And they are right. They do the actions and we bear the consequences. It is time to start burning them at the stake. You think the people who ordered the embargoes on Japan suffered at Pearl Harbor ? You think the people who use OUR FUCKING MONEY to support the house of Saud suffered in the 911 attack ? No, they live in ivory towers somewhere and you can't even get their phone number, let alone address. And if you do, they got armed guards, and want to take our guns away. T^T What act of war had we committed against the Japanese?

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 11:39:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or And it is obvious that if you got a shitload of war planes coming at you they are not there to deliver a rice pizza. T^T Radar was brand new, the operators not fully trained and they sent out the alarm as soon as they made visual Id but by then it was too late to get the fighter pilots to thier planes.

BamaD -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 11:42:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 I believe, but don't quote me, that back then, a plane would approach Pearl from the N.W. or N.N.W. and that was the approximate direction the Japanese came from. You would have to ask somebody a bit more clued-up about flying into Pearl in 1941 than I am. There is much to believe or conjecture about, but there is no way of KNOWING for sure, at this late stage. You can bet a penny to a pinch of pig-poop that there either were no incriminating documents left lying around or they have long since been destroyed, if the scenario is as you say Termy. If it's not, then there WERE no documents in the first place........................you also have to remember that most people back then were almost brainwashed into believing what the government told them was the truth. Like I said, you can believe but you can't know now. Yes, the Japanese came in on a heading that an incoming flight of friendlies would have used ,

RottenJohnny -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 11:43:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Boeing was based in Washington. Don't know what route they took, I just know they did it. B-17s were flown in from San Francisco. http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/11300/Oneula-Beach-Dec-7-1941-Air-Photos-from-Landing-B-17-Flying-Fortress.aspx

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Why isn't no fly a denial of due process? (6/30/2016 11:43:50 PM)
Well, the first thing America did to piss them off was to send warships to FORCE them to open their ports to American traders. Then I believe America stopped selling them natural resources ( oil etc) and was claiming chunks of what was obviously asia for themselves and thus closing more of Japans traditional markets.

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