RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns

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DesideriScuri -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 5:50:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 Interesting. Thank you DS. So as long as she only shoots the ones that look as though they may be doing harm or putting the victim in danger, she should get away with it ? Not allowed to back-shoot them I suppose smile? Again though DS, thanks. ......................at least I didn't get some other 'expert' telling me it was 'Common Knowledge' , to coin a phrase smile. Well, if the endangered innocent life was the guy getting the crap kicked out of him, then, I suppose she could shoot the other guys in the back if they're not facing her.

BamaD -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 6:23:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 I have a serious question here. If that woman had shot and wounded or killed those five (unarmed) men, would she have been charged with anything ? Or would she just get a 'Get out of jail free' card ? If so, why and on what grounds ? I promise I am not being a smartass. I am genuinely interested because those five really didn't seem to be any kind of threat to her or her family or her property. Out of interest, I really don't give a damn about the gun/no gun debate in America. That is for Americans to discuss and find their own solutions and really nothing to do with the rest of the world, no matter how WE live. Good luck to them, whatever they decide No, not even in Detroit where it happened, she was protecting a person in mortal danger. Virtually any place in America you are not expected to stand aside and watch a person get beaten to death.

BamaD -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 6:31:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 I have a serious question here. If that woman had shot and wounded or killed those five (unarmed) men, would she have been charged with anything ? Or would she just get a 'Get out of jail free' card ? If so, why and on what grounds ? I promise I am not being a smartass. I am genuinely interested because those five really didn't seem to be any kind of threat to her or her family or her property. Out of interest, I really don't give a damn about the gun/no gun debate in America. That is for Americans to discuss and find their own solutions and really nothing to do with the rest of the world, no matter how WE live. Good luck to them, whatever they decide Interesting question. I did a quick search and ran across a blog on Aware.org: quote: If you are like me, you need a simple rule, one that is easy to understand, applies virtually everywhere, "feels right" morally and ethically, and is so clearly within the bounds of laws everywhere that you feel safe applying it. Here is that rule: You are justified in using lethal force against another human being if, and only if, there is immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person. Now, understand that the blog posted list the ideas of the blogger, and may or may not, in fact, reflect reality in the US. While the expounding on the different points were mostly skewed towards self-defense, there might need to be more "regulations" on who you can or can't shoot. For instance, lethal force should be the last resort, imo. If a 3rd grade kid is being pummeled by a 6th grade bully, there certainly is "immediate and unavoidable danger of grave bodily harm to an innocent person," but you probably shouldn't be allowed to shoot the 6th grader in situations like these. If you can get in between the bully and the victim, and stop the fucker, then shooting the kid should result in a punishment for illegal use of deadly force, manslaughter, etc. As a rule of thumb, though, I do agree with the rule. If you are old enough you should be able to overpower and would be expected to overpower the 6th grader without a firearm. However, for the sake of argument say the 6th grader was a 250 lb defensive tackle using a baseball bat on 3rd grader in a wheelchair. Not a fantasy, my son was a defensive tackle and over 250 in the 6th grade, of course he would have been the one working the bully over with another baseball bat. General rule shooting the 6th grader wouldn't go over, but there are exceptions.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 6:32:30 PM)
Okay. Thank you both. That gives me something to have a think about smile.

Greta75 -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 6:39:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Greta, as an American who believes in the 2nd Amendment but also believes reasonable controls are necessary, I wouldn't exactly call this article 'neutral'. Quite patronizing, in fact. I personally think, this very specific comment sums up what is uniquely American. the paramount of individual freedom at the expense of others

Greta75 -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 6:50:12 PM)
quote: these anti-gun countries have far higher contact crime (assault) rates than the US, It feels like the countries in comparison, still have guns. Coming from a country with zero gun ownership. Basically not allowed. Since even hunting and shooting animals in our forest reserves are strictly forbidden. There is zero need for guns. The only people that hold guns are military and police. And we trust them to use them wisely to protect us. Our crime rates are one of the lowest in the world. 6 million congested people in a tiny area, only 28km in length, and 45km in width. Imagine running on foot from one end to the other end of our country is just a marathon which marathon runners can do it in 3 hours. We should be crime ridden. But we are not. But actually, while I believe "no guns" make any country a safer place period. But I actually feel that because US are incompetent of securing their borders, banning guns will just give bad guys the guns. Not because I don't believe no gun equals a safer place, but because I believe US can't ever successfully implement no guns. And ironically, in such a world, the solution might be to arm the good guys better.

Greta75 -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 6:56:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67 Another comment while I'm on a roll. I watched a Muslim woman off from a link from here, be beaten, tortured, killed by a mob of mainly men because she was accused of burning a Quran, later to find out she died under false allegations to add insult to injury. It is a rare occurrence, almost as unheard of here. There might be a couple crazies in a crowd but the rest of the crowd would have went apeshit and subdued those maniacs or killed them for that heinous crime. I still can't get that sickening injustice out of my head. People who do such a good thing I would not even call human. This is confusing. A Muslim woman? A MUSLIM woman burns her own Quran? WOW! She sounds amazing! Huh? Why she do that if she's a Muslim? And which country did this happen in? It still confuses me why would anybody in America bother beating up someone who burns a Quran? This happened in the US? Unless she got beat up by fellow Muslims.

Greta75 -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:01:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67 Lol. You do know a blind man could see the intentions of non stop insults to Americans. Jealous much? Or maybe it's ignorance. You don't hear about the every day routine stuff, you hear about the tragedies. My step dad is a hunter and owns an arsenal of guns. So do both my step brothers. So do half their sons. All hunters. All legal. Although they could, they don't carry a gun on themselves. Maybe in their vehicle but not strapped on routinely. One works for a federal penitentiary so trust me he has been tested psychologically. Good news they have neither threatens nor killed anyone and they are between 50-85 years of age with this privilege from the age of being legal. You never have to concern yourself with them unless one decides to steal, pull a gun on innocents, or themselves having their life threatened. A problem might be created then, but who created their destiny? As far as people carrying a gun on their person, depends on the nature of their job or the environment they are entering. There was a thread about people with guns while just having lunch. You really don't see people running around with guns exposed, at least where I come from. If they have one its concealed, unless it's a profession you won't see that. If someone is going to lunch showing a weapon it's very likely they will be questioned or reported anonymously. No, just a country who will protect LGBT people from being mass murdered! You guys let the mass murderer go because your laws of freedom, allow him to walk free and do this crime. FBI was helpless as the law worked against them, to detain this guy. Despite him being flagged in their list as potential terrorist. We arrested and thrown in jail, our own version of potential Orlando killer, as I have posted in the Orlando thread. We do alot of things to prevent bad things from happening. But to ensure everybody's safety, some kind of understanding that certain freedoms will be curtailed is expected for the safety of majority. We believe some the way we do things have saved many lives. But it's two different cultural beliefs. Individual freedom at the expense of others, is American. Giving up some reasonable freedom, so that everyone can be safe, is our culture. How is it reasonable? Does giving up this freedom prevent you from achieving your hopes and dreams? Doing what you love in life? If it does not, then it's reasonable. Not having guns in our country does not stop us from pursuing our hope and dreams. Unless that dream is owning a gun and that's all they want in life, then they can move to a gun legal country to achieve that. PS: I actually don't understand this concealed and expose law. If people want to prevent bad guys from using their guns. All the good guys should walk around with guns exposed. In a gun filled country, how does not exposing gun keep you safe? If I'm already in a gun filled country I'd want all the bad guys to know that all the good guys are well armed, if they try anything!

BamaD -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:02:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67 Another comment while I'm on a roll. I watched a Muslim woman off from a link from here, be beaten, tortured, killed by a mob of mainly men because she was accused of burning a Quran, later to find out she died under false allegations to add insult to injury. It is a rare occurrence, almost as unheard of here. There might be a couple crazies in a crowd but the rest of the crowd would have went apeshit and subdued those maniacs or killed them for that heinous crime. I still can't get that sickening injustice out of my head. People who do such a good thing I would not even call human. This is confusing. A Muslim woman? A MUSLIM woman burns her own Quran? WOW! She sounds amazing! Huh? Why she do that if she's a Muslim? And which country did this happen in? It still confuses me why would anybody in America bother beating up someone who burns a Quran? This happened in the US? Unless she got beat up by fellow Muslims. She makes it clear that this didn't happen in the US.

BamaD -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:04:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67 Lol. You do know a blind man could see the intentions of non stop insults to Americans. Jealous much? Or maybe it's ignorance. You don't hear about the every day routine stuff, you hear about the tragedies. My step dad is a hunter and owns an arsenal of guns. So do both my step brothers. So do half their sons. All hunters. All legal. Although they could, they don't carry a gun on themselves. Maybe in their vehicle but not strapped on routinely. One works for a federal penitentiary so trust me he has been tested psychologically. Good news they have neither threatens nor killed anyone and they are between 50-85 years of age with this privilege from the age of being legal. You never have to concern yourself with them unless one decides to steal, pull a gun on innocents, or themselves having their life threatened. A problem might be created then, but who created their destiny? As far as people carrying a gun on their person, depends on the nature of their job or the environment they are entering. There was a thread about people with guns while just having lunch. You really don't see people running around with guns exposed, at least where I come from. If they have one its concealed, unless it's a profession you won't see that. If someone is going to lunch showing a weapon it's very likely they will be questioned or reported anonymously. No, just a country who will protect LGBT people from being mass murdered! You guys let the mass murderer go because your laws of freedom, allow him to walk free and do this crime. FBI was helpless as the law worked against them, to detain this guy. Despite him being flagged in their list as potential terrorist. We arrested and thrown in jail, our own version of potential Orlando killer, as I have posted in the Orlando thread. But it's two different cultural beliefs. Individual freedom at the expense of others, is American. Giving up some freedom, so that everyone can be safe, is our culture. Not having guns in our country does not stop us from pursuing our hope and dreams. Unless that dream is owning a gun and that's all they want in life, then they can move to a gun legal country. Actually they had enough to hold him on, but since they didn't want to look like they were picking on a Moslem they didn't enforce out laws. We don't believe in thought crimes.

Wayward5oul -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:05:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67 Another comment while I'm on a roll. I watched a Muslim woman off from a link from here, be beaten, tortured, killed by a mob of mainly men because she was accused of burning a Quran, later to find out she died under false allegations to add insult to injury. It is a rare occurrence, almost as unheard of here. There might be a couple crazies in a crowd but the rest of the crowd would have went apeshit and subdued those maniacs or killed them for that heinous crime. I still can't get that sickening injustice out of my head. People who do such a good thing I would not even call human. This is confusing. A Muslim woman? A MUSLIM woman burns her own Quran? WOW! She sounds amazing! Huh? Why she do that if she's a Muslim? And which country did this happen in? It still confuses me why would anybody in America bother beating up someone who burns a Quran? This happened in the US? Unless she got beat up by fellow Muslims. note the colored text

Wayward5oul -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:11:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Greta, as an American who believes in the 2nd Amendment but also believes reasonable controls are necessary, I wouldn't exactly call this article 'neutral'. Quite patronizing, in fact. I personally think, this very specific comment sums up what is uniquely American. the paramount of individual freedom at the expense of others We have a quote (and several variations of it) related to the extent of individual freedoms. In court, a judge oversees the case of a man who hit another man. Each side takes the position of the man who was arrested for swinging his arms and hitting another in the nose, and asked the judge if he did not have a right to swing his arms in a free country. “Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man’s nose begins.” http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/10/15/liberty-fist-nose/

Greta75 -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:22:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Toward the end of the same thread it was brought out that one week after Orlando someone tried the same thing in S Carolina. Most of you wouldn't have heard about that because in SC ccw holders who aren't drinking are allowed to carry in night clubs. Instead of 49 dead and 50+ wounded there were three people and the shooter wounded. The difference, the ccw holder shot the shooter. You do know that more people were killed in one mass shooting in Paris than have been killed in the last 5 years in mass shootings in U S . Maybe you should be sticking your collective nose into French gun laws. When it comes to Singaporeans, they are talking about TOTAL banning of guns from the bad guys and the good guys. Both parties aren't allowed to have guns. France is a country that allows guns, so that still proves our point. Both Orlando and France could not happen if both bad guys and good guys cannot get guns. Anyway, alot of things that are legal in france are also banned in our country. By the way, the Orlando incident, it was now established that 3 men had guns, and had a shoot out with the killer BEFORE he even entered the night club, they were trying to shoot the killer to protect the others but failed. Worst of all, they were cops. Guess they were bad at aiming. So Guns failed to protect in Orlando. It depends on who's the better shooter. When all are equal and everybody has guns.

Greta75 -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:28:56 PM)
quote: Guns kill..end of all other narratives. I believe in the logic that Gun don't kill people. People kill people. That's why most weapons of destruction should not be trusted in human's hands unless they serve dual purpose and actually has a practical purpose. Like..., knives can cut fruit for eating. So fine! But I guess in some countries they need guns to shoot down their food still for survival. So yea, in those circumstances, sure. But there is no need for guns in a city environment or modern environment where you can buy food from a supermarket, so, I mean for the US it's guns. For us, we got sick of people sticking gum on public transport seats, I see them alot in Australia buses and trains still. And we got sick of train doors being jammed because some idiot teenage kid decide to stick a gum into it. When I was in Germany, I was mentioning to my friend about why are there so many bird poop on the floor when I don't see birds! And he said those aren't bird poop, they are gum stains!! I was like OMG! That's what gum stains look like??? We ban the gum. The good kids who never did anything bad with the gum have to suffer not chewing gum ever again. Sucks for them. But the rewards are, no more stepping on gum, seating on gum, Train delayed due to gum causing problems to the door, etc. The rewards outweighs a few people sacrifices. And of course we face the ridicule of the entire universe for banning gum. But hey, not chewing gum does not prevent you from achieving your hope and dreams.

BamaD -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:33:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Toward the end of the same thread it was brought out that one week after Orlando someone tried the same thing in S Carolina. Most of you wouldn't have heard about that because in SC ccw holders who aren't drinking are allowed to carry in night clubs. Instead of 49 dead and 50+ wounded there were three people and the shooter wounded. The difference, the ccw holder shot the shooter. You do know that more people were killed in one mass shooting in Paris than have been killed in the last 5 years in mass shootings in U S . Maybe you should be sticking your collective nose into French gun laws. When it comes to Singaporeans, they are talking about TOTAL banning of guns from the bad guys and the good guys. Both parties aren't allowed to have guns. France is a country that allows guns, so that still proves our point. Both Orlando and France could not happen if both bad guys and good guys cannot get guns. Anyway, alot of things that are legal in france are also banned in our country. By the way, the Orlando incident, it was now established that 3 men had guns, and had a shoot out with the killer BEFORE he even entered the night club, they were trying to shoot the killer to protect the others but failed. Worst of all, they were cops. Guess they were bad at aiming. So Guns failed to protect in Orlando. It depends on who's the better shooter. When all are equal and everybody has guns. And in SC one guy had a gun and kept anyone from being killed. Who confirmed it, I can't find any reference to him fighting his way through three off duty cops. We were also assured that he was a ckiset homosexual but the FBI now say that isn't true.

Greta75 -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:37:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And in SC one guy had a gun and kept anyone from being killed. So my point is, in one incident, 3 good gun owners didn't prevent the massacre. SC got lucky with a good shooter. But not many gun owners are gonna be great shooters. So it doesn't guarantee safer either!

BamaD -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:47:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And in SC one guy had a gun and kept anyone from being killed. So my point is, in one incident, 3 good gun owners didn't prevent the massacre. SC got lucky with a good shooter. But not many gun owners are gonna be great shooters. So it doesn't guarantee safer either! Most gun owners are better shots than most cops. Better than hiding under a table and hoping he shoots someone else. There are guarantees. You don't know about Happyland NJ 87 killed. Weapons a piece of chain for the back door and about 5 gallons of gas. No guns = no safty guarantee safer either.

Greta75 -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 7:52:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Most gun owners are better shots than most cops. THIS is precisely one of the problems that needs fixing! quote: You don't know about Happyland NJ 87 killed. Weapons a piece of chain for the back door and about 5 gallons of gas. No guns = no safty guarantee safer either. Eliminating one weapon of destruction means you are limiting one more avenue for the bad guys to exploit. The whole idea is simply making it more difficult for bad guys to kill. Like I say, some things in life are pretty difficult to ban, because, knives, you need it for food. Gas, you need it for cooking. So those items serve dual purposes. But I reckon the number of mass murders over all will just drop so drastically once bad guys and good guys, BOTH can't get hold of guns. Bad guys will start thinking of other ways to kill, and they will find them. But as with each things happen with more frequency, the good guys should be again be able to find ways to prevent them.

BamaD -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/1/2016 8:07:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Most gun owners are better shots than most cops. THIS is precisely one of the problems that needs fixing! quote: You don't know about Happyland NJ 87 killed. Weapons a piece of chain for the back door and about 5 gallons of gas. No guns = no safty guarantee safer either. Eliminating one weapon of destruction means you are limiting one more avenue for the bad guys to exploit. The whole idea is simply making it more difficult for bad guys to kill. Like I say, some things in life are pretty difficult to ban, because, knives, you need it for food. Gas, you need it for cooking. So those items serve dual purposes. But I reckon the number of mass murders over all will just drop so drastically once bad guys and good guys, BOTH can't get hold of guns. Bad guys will start thinking of other ways to kill, and they will find them. But as with each things happen with more frequency, the good guys should be again be able to find ways to prevent them. And you want to force them to use more deadly means of killing. Gas, fertilizer things that are harder to control are more deadly terror/mass murder weapons than firearms, but please let us make sure that the bad guys use them because anything is better than a gun. Do you think the Paris terrorists walked into a gun store and bought thier weapons. Do you really think that terrorists care about gun laws? Do you not realize that you pass total bans and they will disarm the good guys a generation before they disarm the bad guys, do you know how much good firearm bans did in Chicago and DC. You have admitted you don't know anything about firearms. You don't know anything about the issue that hasn't been filtered through several sources all anti gun. I don't care what gun laws you have if you are happy with them. Don't talk down to me like I am to ignorant to know what I want.

DesideriScuri -> RE: A different culture point of view of Legalised Guns (7/2/2016 1:49:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul Greta, as an American who believes in the 2nd Amendment but also believes reasonable controls are necessary, I wouldn't exactly call this article 'neutral'. Quite patronizing, in fact. I personally think, this very specific comment sums up what is uniquely American. the paramount of individual freedom at the expense of others What is the pronoun 'others' referring to? Other freedoms? Other individuals? Read the Declaration of Independence. Take notes. Gain an understanding of the underlying beliefs and how they exert themselves into the declarations therein.

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