RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimination?

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RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/16/2016 7:24:00 AM

Awareness

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

So Awareness, Mormons believe that people were cut off from the Lords presence and were cursed with a "skin of darkness" (Nephi 5:20-22). It's not a far leap from there to putting up "Whites Only" on store fronts. Or maybe a religion where women are allowed literature but not math, so they don't have to hire females in certain traditionally male sectors? Where does it end?

Unfortunately what you're doing is engaging in the fallacy of extremes and you're not addressing any of the actual issues. There are multiple issues here, but I'll tackle just one.

There's no question in my mind that all law-abiding people - regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation and so on - should be able to access essential services without any hindrance whatsoever.

Beyond accessing essential services, attempting to force people to interact with everyone is just your basic leftist social engineering. And legislating to prevent "hurt feelings" is utter madness. What you have here is someone who doesn't want to associate with gay people, but the socialist view is that because they run a business they're forced to.

Exactly who does that benefit? You don't think it might breed resentment? There's a big difference between a gay person who adopts a live-and-let-live approach versus one who insists on shoving their sexual orientation in the face of people who are uncomfortable with it.

Politeness and protocol are social lubricants. They grease the wheels of human interaction, helping to keep things running smoothly, even amongst people who dislike each other. Evolving socially polite ways to deal with these kinds of interactions is more important than violating people's religious rights so a gay person doesn't have to walk across the road to a competing fucking cake shop.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to DominantWrestler)

Post #: 101

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/16/2016 7:52:04 AM

DominantWrestler

Posts: 338
Joined: 7/4/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantWrestler

So Awareness, Mormons believe that people were cut off from the Lords presence and were cursed with a "skin of darkness" (Nephi 5:20-22). It's not a far leap from there to putting up "Whites Only" on store fronts. Or maybe a religion where women are allowed literature but not math, so they don't have to hire females in certain traditionally male sectors? Where does it end?

Unfortunately what you're doing is engaging in the fallacy of extremes and you're not addressing any of the actual issues. There are multiple issues here, but I'll tackle just one.

There's no question in my mind that all law-abiding people - regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation and so on - should be able to access essential services without any hindrance whatsoever.

Beyond accessing essential services, attempting to force people to interact with everyone is just your basic leftist social engineering. And legislating to prevent "hurt feelings" is utter madness. What you have here is someone who doesn't want to associate with gay people, but the socialist view is that because they run a business they're forced to.

Exactly who does that benefit? You don't think it might breed resentment? There's a big difference between a gay person who adopts a live-and-let-live approach versus one who insists on shoving their sexual orientation in the face of people who are uncomfortable with it.

Politeness and protocol are social lubricants. They grease the wheels of human interaction, helping to keep things running smoothly, even amongst people who dislike each other. Evolving socially polite ways to deal with these kinds of interactions is more important than violating people's religious rights so a gay person doesn't have to walk across the road to a competing fucking cake shop.

I am talking legal precedent, not extremism. Make it legal to discriminate against a group and businesses everywhere and anywhere will have permission to discriminate. Or would it only be related to marriage? Can you come up with a scenario that doesn't release the Pandora's box of legal discrimination while allowing discrimination in this case? Or is your goal to reopen that box?

< Message edited by DominantWrestler -- 7/16/2016 7:56:05 AM >

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 102

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/16/2016 8:31:15 AM

WickedsDesire

Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline

I only came on this thread because it said cake demands his cake

Sophists offend me other than that pretty much nothing else,. except the no cake thing actually the meek and gullible offend me, and fuking idiots, and some other stuff i will not bore thee with.

religion yes that too - and of course it is discrimination- and there was that cake case last year and hotel room where they said no to the gay male couple (Christians eh!)

But heh I pretty much believe all religion to be sophistry and anyone citing it/basing their belief system, morals and so on, on it barking mad...and not the good kinda barking mad

< Message edited by WickedsDesire -- 7/16/2016 8:36:57 AM >

(in reply to DominantWrestler)

Post #: 103

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/16/2016 8:42:34 AM

DommeinRochester

Posts: 80
Joined: 2/9/2012
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"There's no question in my mind that all law-abiding people - regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation and so on - should be able to access essential services without any hindrance whatsoever.

Beyond accessing essential services, attempting to force people to interact with everyone is just your basic leftist social engineering. And legislating to prevent "hurt feelings" is utter madness. What you have here is someone who doesn't want to associate with gay people, but the socialist view is that because they run a business they're forced to.
Exactly who does that benefit? You don't think it might breed resentment? There's a big difference between a gay person who adopts a live-and-let-live approach versus one who insists on shoving their sexual orientation in the face of people who are uncomfortable with it.

Politeness and protocol are social lubricants. They grease the wheels of human interaction, helping to keep things running smoothly, even amongst people who dislike each other. Evolving socially polite ways to deal with these kinds of interactions is more important than violating people's religious rights so a gay person doesn't have to walk across the road to a competing fucking cake shop.

"

What the hell, I'm bored I'll bite. So just out of curiosity, who decides what is essential and what isn't?
You? Me? Congress? The President? Should there be an amendment to the Constitution stating exactly what only some people are allowed?
What about a store that sells both essentials and non essentials?
Should the cashier be allowed to determine what a person can buy and what they can't buy?

If I'm a business owner and open to the public, then I'm open to all the public, not just these folks and not those folks. If I have an issue
with some people then I have no business being in business.

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 104

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/16/2016 8:46:25 AM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Might have no choice unless we want what little is left of our way of life destroyed. Countries exist for a reason, it is called nationality. Culture. So much is gone it is ridiculous.

People just want "anything goes". They'll give you a sex change operation for free when you're in prison for murder. They'll ley guys use the girls restroom, and I guess changing rooms, showers and all that come next.

There are a hell of alot of people who do not like that. The group in general, as well as BDSMers af LGBTers support liberalism to some extent, but some won't support this shit. Conservatives won't, and neither will the neocons. Most middle of the roaders will not either.

But back to the OP. What knd of business does a background check on its customers ? That is ridiculous. From what I have read there was nothing to be on that cake to indicate anything, otherwise the confrontation would have happened right when the order was taken. You know, background checks are appropriate when you like own a car rental place. You ordered a cake, pick it up and give me my money. If you sell guns for example. Other things I'll never think of. Loaning out money.

Can you imagine like a pizza place refusing service ? Like "Oh, you didn't order any pork products on your pizza, are you a Muslim or a Jew ?" and then refuse to make you a pizza ?

Remember MLK and the spitting in Whites burgers ? Go ahead and force them to serve those they don't want to. Maybe they put a laxative in the cake. I would probably stand my ground because I don't give a shit, but those with something to lose might not be so able to do that. So what is their alternative ?

Revenge. Christians usually do not go for that, but if you push them too far they just might. Spit, shit and snot in your food, and you'll never know it. And they'll get that one worker who is sick with AIDS or something to supply those additives. Or TB. Or hep. Who knows ?

Personally, if someone doesn't like me I do not want them cooking for me. I don't want them around me. I am what I am, true conservative and slightly prejudiced. If they do not want to serve me then don't, I will find someone who will. But not surprisingly alot of these small businesses are owned by conservatives. The problem is when they let race or religion into the business.

If I were they, I would go ahead and make a cake with Gay porn on the top. If I were Black I would go ahead and make a cake with the rebel flag on top. And I would not taint it. If you are Christian you believe you are forgiven. As such, what those people do when it comes to this is a personal preference. That has no business i business. Just like the color thing. I hire this guy, says he never thought he would get the job because he is Black. I told him the only color that matters in business is green. Now I expound on that and say that the only religion that matters in business is the almighty buck.

When you are in business, anything else is stupidity. And if an employee ever had a problem serving someone for reasons of bigotry, I would tell them to take the rest of the day off, without pay. Consider it tithing to your god. Keep the shit up and leave me shorthanded one too many times you can take the rest of your life off.

Now remember that I think that male homosexuality is gross and turns me totally off, and worse. But I will support their right to do what they want to do. You support my rights, I support yours. If someone else doesn't, like won't sell you a cake, find someone who will because they should not be forced. That is slavery.

As far as my rights. I want pot and guns. Beer is already taken care of. We either stand together or fall apart. And the same goes for BDSMers. There are some funny laws that could get us in unnecessary trouble. We need to get to the solidarity that won Gays the right to come out of the closet. Same with Women's rights, they needed to get together to get that done. As a group they applied pressure and it worked.

T^T

(in reply to DominantWrestler)

Post #: 105

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/16/2016 9:16:49 PM

SunDominant

Posts: 136
Joined: 7/12/2016
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The question that should be answered is not one of religious liberty, but freedom of association (so to speak). A business, regardless of its location or service area, should be able to refuse service to anyone for any or no reason.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 106

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 5:42:04 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

FR
End of the day. This is a cake shop. Most business want EVERYBODY's money.

This shop, rather lose money than take gay people's money.

Cake shops are in abundance!

What's the big deal!

If this was a doctor refusing essential medical care to dying gay person. Then I would be outrage.

As I said, if I was this gay person, I'd set up cake shop right beside this cake shop and advertise Cakes for Gay People! Straight People Welcome too!

I think the cake shop next door might go out of business, since I believe alot of straight people might boycott that shop who discriminate and go for one that does not. And support gay people selling cakes too!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/17/2016 5:43:51 AM >

(in reply to SunDominant)

Post #: 107

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 7:23:52 AM

WickedsDesire

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Joined: 11/4/2015
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This is about my beliefs are correct and no-one dare offend. Many different lines have been drawn - this confuses me.

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 108

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 1:06:16 PM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: SunDominant

The question that should be answered is not one of religious liberty, but freedom of association (so to speak). A business, regardless of its location or service area, should be able to refuse service to anyone for any or no reason.

We tried that and it cost nearly a million lives. If you do not like the constitution of my country why do you stay here?

(in reply to SunDominant)

Post #: 109

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 2:25:25 PM

SunDominant

Posts: 136
Joined: 7/12/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

We tried that and it cost nearly a million lives. If you do not like the constitution of my country why do you stay here?

1. Elaborate on the former.

2. As to the latter, you have no idea what I think of a constitutional republic, much less this one. Pack your blind assumptions and gross hyperbole off to therapy. If you want to have a discussion with me, stick to what you know or can prove.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 110

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 6:00:07 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

"As I said, if I was this gay person, I'd set up cake shop right beside this cake shop and advertise Cakes for Gay People! Straight People Welcome too!
"

Not a bad idea actually.

"“I am truly perplexed that so many of my friends are against another mosque being built in Toronto.

I think it should be the goal of every Canadian to be tolerant regardless of their religious beliefs. Thus the mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.

Victoria's SecretThat is why I also propose that two nightclubs be opened next door to the mosque, thereby promoting tolerance from within the mosque.

We could call one of the clubs, which would be gay, “The Turban Cowboy”, and the other a topless bar called “You Mecca Me Hot.”

Across the street there could be a lingerie store called “Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret”, with sexy mannequins in the window modeling the goods.

Next door to the lingerie shop there would be room for an adult sex toy shop, “Koranal Knowledge”, its name in flashing neon lights, and on the other side, a liquor store called “Morehammered.”

All of this would encourage Muslims to demonstrate the tolerance they demand of us, so their mosque issue would not be a problem for others.

Yes we should promote tolerance!

If you want tolerance you have to give it. Like that respectmen, I would like to know why he is so adamant about the subject. I bet he got really fucked over in a bad divorce.

But I digress. If you want a cake from me it has what I want in it. Problem is if I really was an idiot and did not want their money and said I was going to jack off into the dough they would probably pay extra for that ! Whaddya gonna do.

T^T

ETA : those errors are not from me, tthey are form the souce from which I C&Ped it - http://jokes.conservativepapers.com/2013/06/20/how-to-practice-tolerance-towards-muslims/

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 7/17/2016 6:03:24 PM >

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 111

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 6:26:50 PM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: SunDominant
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

We tried that and it cost nearly a million lives. If you do not like the constitution of my country why do you stay here?

1. Elaborate on the former.

The civil war

2. As to the latter,

The equal protection clause of the 14th ammendment.

(in reply to SunDominant)

Post #: 112

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 6:30:20 PM

thompsonx

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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"As I said, if I was this gay person, I'd set up cake shop right beside this cake shop and advertise Cakes for Gay People! Straight People Welcome too!
"

Not a bad idea actually.

"“I am truly perplexed that so many of my friends are against another mosque being built in Toronto.

I think it should be the goal of every Canadian to be tolerant regardless of their religious beliefs. Thus the mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.

Victoria's SecretThat is why I also propose that two nightclubs be opened next door to the mosque, thereby promoting tolerance from within the mosque.

We could call one of the clubs, which would be gay, “The Turban Cowboy”, and the other a topless bar called “You Mecca Me Hot.”

Across the street there could be a lingerie store called “Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret”, with sexy mannequins in the window modeling the goods.

Next door to the lingerie shop there would be room for an adult sex toy shop, “Koranal Knowledge”, its name in flashing neon lights, and on the other side, a liquor store called “Morehammered.”

All of this would encourage Muslims to demonstrate the tolerance they demand of us, so their mosque issue would not be a problem for others.

Yes we should promote tolerance!

If you want tolerance you have to give it. Like that respectmen, I would like to know why he is so adamant about the subject. I bet he got really fucked over in a bad divorce.

But I digress. If you want a cake from me it has what I want in it. Problem is if I really was an idiot and did not want their money and said I was going to jack off into the dough they would probably pay extra for that ! Whaddya gonna do.

T^T

ETA : those errors are not from me, tthey are form the souce from which I C&Ped it - http://jokes.conservativepapers.com/2013/06/20/how-to-practice-tolerance-towards-muslims/

I am pretty sure that there are zoning laws that prevent bars,adult book stores and the such from being within some given distance of any church,mosque or where ever you visit your imaginary friend.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 113

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 6:45:43 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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"I am pretty sure that there are zoning laws that prevent bars,adult book stores and the such from being within some given distance of any church,mosque or where ever..." snipped the idiocy...

Well those are unconstitutional and someone needs to mount up and have a court case.

And BTW, I got REAL friends. Friends who would kill YOU for me. Do you have any friends who would kill me for you ? You got so much balls online I bet you got no ass to back it up.

T^T

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 114

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 6:48:37 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"I am pretty sure that there are zoning laws that prevent bars,adult book stores and the such from being within some given distance of any church,mosque or where ever..." snipped the idiocy...

Well those are unconstitutional and someone needs to mount up and have a court case.

And BTW, I got REAL friends. Friends who would kill YOU for me. Do you have any friends who would kill me for you ? You got so much balls online I bet you got no ass to back it up.

If a man needs killing then it would most likely be prudent to do it youself...fewer witnesses and all that.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 7/17/2016 6:49:08 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 115

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 6:51:14 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

We tried that and it cost nearly a million lives. If you do not like the constitution of my country why do you stay here?

1. Elaborate on the former.

2. As to the latter, you have no idea what I think of a constitutional republic, much less this one. Pack your blind assumptions and gross hyperbole off to therapy. If you want to have a discussion with me, stick to what you know or can prove.

All his shit is...shit. Even when he speaks the truth it is only parts of it, and he does his best to insult anyone who disagrees with him. If I owned this site, I would hire a hacker to totally destroy his PC, and if possible his cellphone to the point he was back in the fucking 1960s.

But until then, just have fun with his dumb ass. I laugh whenever he calls someone stupid. And he won't even spell "fucking", ON A FETISH SITE !

That might tell you something of his mentality no ?

T^T

(in reply to SunDominant)

Post #: 116

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 7:36:44 PM

thompsonx

Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

All his shit is...shit. Even when he speaks the truth it is only parts of it, and he does his best to insult anyone who disagrees with him.

Woops wrong again sweetheart...I only insult those who insult me.

If I owned this site, I would hire a hacker to totally destroy his PC, and if possible his cellphone to the point he was back in the fucking 1960s.

Dude cell phones are cheap...so are pc's.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 117

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 7:41:21 PM

ThatDizzyChick

Posts: 5490
Status: offline

quote:

I only insult those who insult me.

That's bullshit

_____________________________

Not your average bimbo.

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 118

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 7:48:14 PM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
"“I am truly perplexed that so many of my friends are against another mosque being built in Toronto.

I think it should be the goal of every Canadian to be tolerant regardless of their religious beliefs. Thus the mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.

Victoria's SecretThat is why I also propose that two nightclubs be opened next door to the mosque, thereby promoting tolerance from within the mosque.

We could call one of the clubs, which would be gay, “The Turban Cowboy”, and the other a topless bar called “You Mecca Me Hot.”

Across the street there could be a lingerie store called “Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret”, with sexy mannequins in the window modeling the goods.

Next door to the lingerie shop there would be room for an adult sex toy shop, “Koranal Knowledge”, its name in flashing neon lights, and on the other side, a liquor store called “Morehammered.”

All of this would encourage Muslims to demonstrate the tolerance they demand of us, so their mosque issue would not be a problem for others.

Yes we should promote tolerance!

In my country, shops are forbidden to sell alcohol within 100 metres from the Mosque location. So I think we have more reasons to stop more Mosque from being built, since it restrict our access to alcohol. (Not that anybody here actually cares about how many Mosque is being built too, as majority of people don't even drink alcohol as they simply don't like the taste of it or the buzz they get from it.) But there is definitely certain perks, like if I wanted to illegal park, I would park by a Mosque as somehow most traffic police ticketing officers are Muslims and if you park by a Mosque, they assume you are going into the Mosque, and they won't give you a ticket for illegal parking as they see you illegal parking for a good reason haha! It's the biggest open secret around here.

In a country where it's total freedom. Hell yea! Strip clubs, sex shops, gay clubs, all beside the Mosques would be awesome! Can drink and party around the Mosque!

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 7/17/2016 7:52:00 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 119

RE: That DAMN CAKE again-Religious Liberty or Discrimin... - 7/17/2016 7:49:17 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

quote:

I only insult those who insult me.

That's bullshit

I dunno, maybe he takes facts as an insult when he does not agree with them. You know there are alot of people like that and many of them are immature.

Just an observation here of course. a analysis costs money.

T^T

(in reply to ThatDizzyChick)

Post #: 120

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